pol pot noodles Offline
Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
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This is getting extremely tiresome. Yet again you have failed entirely to grasp the basics of my point and simply repeated your own.
The point on Poppy Facism is absurd... I think you are laboring the point in an effort to deflect.
I think you fail to appreciate the sensitivities here. The topic of the thread was army death squads operating with impunity in NI. The RBL would support these people! Why should the victims be forced to pay for this? The British Army's version of Bloody Sunday was only overturned in 2011, there are persistent calls for official investigations into collusion. The point being that the legacy of the troubles is not a part of the distant past. Forcing Nationalists (or anyone) to observe some contrived justification for Britain's repugnant belligerent militaristic past is insensitive at best. What next, selling Poppies in Baghdad?
How would endorsing the poppy be a positive step in the peace process? More people in England disagree with the campaign than in Ireland. Why should we all be obliged to support something we don't morally agree with?
You gave an absurd, abstract and reaching justification for James to have worn a poppy, I have given a much better justification for his choice not to have worn one. The simple fact is this. The British Army often acted disgracefully in NI, particularly in Derry, James' hometown. NI is still dealing with the past. The MOD have secrets they haven't released to the public regarding the conflict. Many British people don't even agree with the poppy appeal. Therefore, why should we be morally obligated to subscribe to your twisted totalitarian view whereby we are all required to wear a poppy lest we be fair game for abuse.
On the point of the Easter Lilly. I genuinely don't believe that you would wear one. Nor would I force unionists to observe such a divisive tradition. The process of reconciliation is not about forcing uniformity but rather observing and respecting sensitivity.
"Poppy Facism" is entirely consistent with the word facism. There is no "appeal to logic fallacy" here, this is pure and simple etymology. Nowhere have I sought to rely on tabloid headlines to justify the neologism. The phrase is widely used and understood to apply to the aforementioned issue. You are challenging the phrase for some unbeknownst reason, rather than seeking to address the phenomenon a typical and juvenile attempt to avoid engaging with the salient issue.
Again you've failed entirely to understand the point, either that or you've chosen to ignore it. Disagreement with the poppy appeal and the RBL has nothing to do with the second World War. The funds of the RBL go to extant retired soldiers, those very same soldiers who committed numerous atrocities in Ireland and more specifically Derry. Why should James contribute to them specifically? Why should anyone in Northern Ireland be compelled to? How does Gerry Adams' face even come into this? If you want a like for like comparison, you would be advocating that Loyalists wear an Easter Lilly to remember those fallen IRA men. Would you wear a lilly?
You seem to think wearing a poppy would somehow progress the peace process. I actually think such nationalistic glorification of war is regressive and damaging for society. Even If I was English I would refuse to wear a poppy. Your engagement with the troubles in Northern Ireland is infantile at best.
You haven't successfully attacked the substance nor the neologism. Both of which are frequently observed and can be easily referenced by a plethora of articles. I suggest you google "Poppy facism" and read any handful of the numerous articles. But I fear the discussion on the above has become cyclical. It is a term that I used correctly within context and your thoughts on its validity are neither here nor there.
And I suggested that by paying money over to the RBL, via the poppy appeal, would be insensitive to the victims of the British Army in Ireland, and more specifically Derry. How can you not see this? How is this in anyway a straw man argument.
The Poppy appeal supports current veterans, including those who served in NI. All of the veterans from the 1st World War are dead and Ireland was neutral during the second world war (albeit some chose to fight for the British Army). How can you not recognise the sensitivity of the issue? Explain how any of the above is a red herring or a straw man? I think you fail to understand the nuances of the discussion. It is not about honoring the Soldiers of WW1 & WW2, but about respecting the sensitive legacy of the troubles in Ireland. Something Poppy Facists overlook.
What a nonsense point. It is a neologism adopted by many credible individuals, it hardly makes me a Russel Brand esque political commentator. Your defense is predicated on attacking the term (which is futile) rather than the substance behind its meaning.
Firstly the Poppy appeal is for the RBL... Secondly, you're the one who is quoted unsubstantiated allegations. Explain to me how non-British "countries respecting the tradition" in anyway translates to the justification of an attack on an individual refusing to wear one? I feel you're clutching at straws. Derailing a valid discussion in favor of semantics.
Your argument is absurd. Poppy facism refers to people criticising people for choosing not to wear the poppy. It is by no means illogical.
The poppy appeal is a British charity. No two ways about it. About 70% of Brits celebrate it, less than 5% of any other country's population observe it. Simply because a minute handful of people do so elsewhere does not denigrate its status as a British thing. Your absurd argument would hold that if some Hong Kong citizens flew the Union Jack, then the Union Jack will also be the flag of Hong Kong.
That's a superb name you have there.
I don't disregard them, but either they are British citizens and under British control, in which case they don't have genuine self-determination, or they aren't, in which case we shouldn't be working ourselves into a frothing nationalist hysteria over Spain's constant manoeuvring to try and reclaim the Rock. If they are British and don't have autonomy and Gibraltar is part of the UK, then they shouldn't be a tax haven and they shouldn't have their own parliament without having UK MPs in our House and a devolution template.
As always, the situation is confused, muddled and muddied and the results chaotic, pathetic and hysterical. And all this within the alleged context of the EU. I'm more despairing than disregarding.
I find it distressing that the government is busy harassing disabled people, at the same time as paying for aircraft carriers to go on pointless jingoistic visits to imperial-era colonies that shouldn't even exist as overseas territories any more.
Which is why I said "usual suspects", as I realised you were negging me for that or a similar reason, such as daring to suggest that analysing the weapons systems of Spain and Britain might not be an entirely useful activity.
I assume your neg meant "don't come here and chat in the boy's war discussion".
Where I study
The Unseen University
- About me
- Devout Thatcher-Reaganite.
- Academic Info
- Open University
- Reading the dictionary, counting sheep.
- Last Activity 1 week ago
- Join Date 14-03-2011
Join Date 14-03-2011
Total Posts 4,618