Cambridge Asian and Middle Eastern Studies (AMES) Students and Applicants

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^o) ? Of course we have supervisions. One for each essay and generally one "recap" grammar supervision at the en of term... I think we don't have more because the grammar lectures are pretty much like supervisions anyway - you have to prepare work, and since it's such a small group, you are encouraged to ask questions and are regularly put on the spot.

Then, about the first year exams not counting... I've never understood what people mean by that. They count in the sense that you get a classmark and a mark in each paper, and that if you fail or get a third you may not be let into the 2nd year. They don't count in the sense that they're not averaged with your 2nd and your 4th year to produce an average mark that figures on your degree. On the degree certificate you get when you graduate, it will only say only what classmark you got in your finals. But if you apply to internships and year abroad stuff during your studies, you will only have your first and second year results to show...

This is why renaming prelims "Part IA" doesn't change a thing. Just sounds more important, but prelims or not you do sit real exams in your first year (I'm not sure they're even goint to change anything at all in the first year exams next year!)

And don't worry dominiclmorris, the course is designed for complete beginners, so if you are hazy on parts of the A level syllabus, you'll get the occasion to revise them! I did mostly revision in the first term, and a bit in the 2nd term. But I also found that the grammar points I had covered in school were explained in much more depth in the textbook. Rather than just giving you a construction and its beasic meaning, they do try to explain all the implications and exceptions when you can't use it. (note that I didn't do A-level though since I went to school in France)

As for saying that A level will be covered in the first term... Very doubtful. 600 kanji is about what we learned in the whole year, and I know that one of the texts we translated in the last term is studied for A-level. I didn't know they had this attitude of dissing A-level and whatever Japanese people can do in school... I know that they think that there are a lot of bad Japanese courses around, and it is only fair that they don't make it harder for complete beginners to get in, but certainly *something* is better than nothing? And it does show your interviewers that you are keen.

Reply 41

dominiclmorris

I think the difference will be in terms of the depth stuff is covered in rather than the content, I imagine. For example, for GCSE I learned 200 kanji. I now know about 600 kanji, meaning that there are hundreds of combinations I can make using GCSE kanji mixed with the AS and A2 kanji that I haven't learned yet. At Cambridge I assume there's a more systematic way of learning kanji, meaning you constantly learn new combinations for kanji you know. As mentioned, grammar at A level is mostly "A + B means C", but never why it means this, never how this fits into grammar on a wider scale, it's bascially just rote memorisation. Plus all the history stuff you do in the first year.

I dunno, I always thought it was trying to square a circle when it was said that the A level didn't help much in the first year - how can 3 years of studying a language not be bennifitial if you want to... study the same language? But I do imagine I'll have pleanty to occupy my time~

Reply 42

Jucus

kimoso

Really? I hadn't imagined that more people were doing arabic than Japanese. Interesting..

well it depends on the year, the current 2nd year is so big that they were divided into two groups although some of them left after the first year. Still it meant an unexpected shortage on teaching staff this year :biggrin:

My year (1st year) is slightly smaller but most of us do combine it either with MML or Persian, I think only 3 people do it as a single subject.
Whichever way it's hard work but occassionally quite fun and rewarding :smile:

Reply 43

Loeweloewe

Is chinese at cambridge based heavily on the study of the language itself or more towards the humanities side of things (history, culture, etc)?

im asking this as i am having quite a tough time deciding between oxford and cambridge

Reply 44

dominiclmorris

Usually I'm sceptical about the idea that either Oxford or Cambridge is vastly superior to the other in terms of one particular subject, but I found in the case of Japanese studies at least that the Cambridge program seems to be far better rounded. The impression I've got reading around and talking to students is that in terms of contemporary language teaching SOAS may be better than Oxbridge, but a lot comes down to how wisely one uses their year abroad to work on their language skills. Oxford and Cambridge are then known for having a particularly academic approach to the subject, but while Cambridge takes a broad approach, teaching literature, history, politics, anthropology etc, I hear that Oxford is very highly foccused on the literature aspect. I know in the case of Japanese that Oxford only offer 3 months abroad, in the first year of the four year course, and though they offer an extra year abroad inbetween the third and fourth years that stretches it to a five year BA. I don't know if this is true of Chinese, but as Chris says, you'd be best checking the course content of Oxford and Cambridge, and even sending an email with some questions to the Oriental studies departments.

Reply 45

frogout

Arg! Did anyone go to the AMES talks today at the open day?
Looks sooo good :biggrin:

Reply 46

Ezikio

I'm going to be applying for 2009 entry Japanese but I don't really have any idea of the amount of work expected of you. I've asked around various places about Japanese at Universities but can't seem to find much information on Cambridge. From what I've heard SOAS and Sheffield appear to be the best. However, I know the workload at Cambridge is incredibly high so I'm thinking it could give me a potentially better education than the universities mentioned earlier.

Can anybody offer insight into this.
For instance how many Kanji do you learn each year?
Do you learn to use the language more in business type situations or is it largely composed of conversational Japanese?
How good is your language level at the end of the first year and at the end of the four year course?
Also, What's the drop-out rate like? - At other universities it is incredibly high.

Reply 47

dominiclmorris

Regarding fluency, a lot of it comes down to how well you use your year abroad. If you spend it making friends with locals, and make Japanese your daily language, you'll come back to England in your final year with a good level of fluency. If you spend your year abroad hanging with other foreign students, you may well come back worse at Japanese than when you left. Furthermore, most people I have spoke to say that none of the university courses really guaranty /full/ fluency. Rather, a good degree in Japanese will take you to the stage where if you were then to spend an extra year in Japan you would be able to become very fluent. I think most courses take you somewhere beyond Level 2 of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test, while Level 1 is an understanding of the language close to native.

Also, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the tables, even the subject specific ones. Go on the websites and look at the courses in detail. Cambridge is the most focused course, as I understand it, in the first year you do language and 'East Asian history', where as after thay you can do about two topics a year alongside language study. SOAS is broader, with each year having 4 'units', so you could potentially study a wider range of topics than at Cambridge. Leeds looks very broad, having a /points/ system, with some courses only taking 10 points out of... 80? 120? something like that, a year.
So yeah, do some research and see where appeals the most, 'rankings' be damned.

Reply 48

Ezikio

Thanks for the replies guys,

Cambridge is looking like the best option at the moment, although getting in may be a bit of hassle.

Does anyone know anything more about the year abroad? The whole "make your own arrangements" thing seems pretty daunting. I assume a lot of people will just teach English, is this common? Do many people get places at Japanese universities and how much would that cost?

Reply 49

Simba

Have the Japanese lecture time lists been released for 2008/2009 yet? I'd like to attend the language lectures but I'm not sure if they would clash with my maths lectures. I'm not interested in the culture or history particularly - the language is what fascinates me :smile:

. I already know a bit of Japanese (though not enough to hold a decent conversation for long!) I personally find the vocabulary to be the hardest part; I love learning kanji :biggrin:

! I just think it's so cool to be able to read and write such a mysterious script :smile:

. The reactions I get in England when I write something in Japanese are quite funny too :p:

...

Reply 50

Ezikio

Is there any college I should be thinking about applying for that would be particularly helpful for Japanese?

Also, out of interest, Is Japanese a competitive course?

Reply 51

Simba

chris1200

I think the Reporter (which has lecture timetables) doesn't come out until late September. But last year's one is there so you can get an idea of how many language lectures there are.

I would imagine, as the course is highly intensive, you'd need to attend every class and do all the 'homework' which would be hard to do alongside another degree (especially one as hardcore as maths). But I guess it could be possible... maybe email someone at the AMES faculty? You'd probably need permission from the Maths faculty too, which they might not be too willing to give?

Alright, thank you :smile:

.

I would only be attending the language lectures which I get the impression is not all that much of the course. You mention learning 40 kanji per week which is certainly not that much - the first three days I tried kanji I did kanji 1-300 in Heisig's 'Remembering the Kanji'. The hardest part for me would be the vocabulary, and I'm sure with practise I could crack that (I already know a fair bit). I'm pretty sure that all Cambridge lectures are attendable by all students (be they first year lectures or not), though you can't sit the exams if you're not doing the course. Obviously maths is my top priority, but I'd love to be fluent in Japanese, and attending the lectures could help give me a boost. I'm entirely self-taught up to this point :smile:

Reply 52

dominiclmorris

Japanese is competative in the type of people who apply rather than the numbers. English and History are statistically very competative, because it's not only people who live for and love English and History who apply, it's also a fair amount of people who think "It's pretty fun and I did well at A level, I might as well apply for the degree". Japanese has far fewer people applying (and far fewer places) but the people who apply are universally those who are very passionate about Japan... or a couple of people who watch Naruto and think this counts as a passion for Japan >_>

Beyond that a word of warning for the self taught: ganbatte - good luck - but the learning curve of Japanese is deceptive, the first few months or so move very quickly and you learn a lot but after than it gets exponentially harder.

Reply 53

chikan

well, i just finished 1st year japanese at cambridge. we're translating 'hana' by Akutagawa over the summer holidays (i think i'm on page 5 of about 70 oops), all by ourselves to be tested on in michaelmas and it's longer and a bit more difficult than what we've done before, so i think we'll all have come up with some sketchy translations but no matter, the teachers don't get angry at us for our rubbish translating skills they just laugh at us. so, there's a big emphasis on reading and writing, not so much on conversation. i just got back from japan and managed very basic sentences. but i can work on that on my year abroad i suppose.
i was ab initio and considered degrading and coming back to do something different because i found it initially really difficult but i got into the swing of it after the first term, and you get used to it being hard.
apparently the drop out rate is high, but once you're past the first term, even the first year, you're probably in for the long haul, 1 out of 10 switched subjects this year, and that was at the end so...
we get given a list of the kanji we must learn by the end of the year, numbered, i think it was near 600, and we get a kanji test every monday, weee fun.
(sorry if anyone notices my name is a reference to the perverts on packed trains in japan during rush hour, i couldn't think of a name and this for some bizarre reason seemed the best option...)

Reply 54

chikan

Simba

Alright, thank you :smile:

but when you learn the kanji, you're given a vocabulary list with some of the compounds the kanji fit into, it's not just individual kanji and their on and kun readings.

Reply 55

hungryhamish

Loeweloewe

Is chinese at cambridge based heavily on the study of the language itself or more towards the humanities side of things (history, culture, etc)?

This pic is entirely irrelevant.

Reply 56

afua12

Is it possible to combine Chinese and an MML at Cambridge? So, Mandarin and German? Or is it strictly just Mandarin?

Reply 57

Luxun3

No thats only possible with Arabic. Japanese and Chinese are not combinable with any other language. The only option is to do Japanese with Chinese or Chinese with Japanese if you stay at Cambridge in the third year and do extra courses in the other language

Reply 58

afua12

Oh ok. That seems to be the case at a lot of universities. Maybe because it's a difficult language for English speakers? I don't know. But either way, it leaves me with just a choice of 4 universities - one of which I hate, one I dislike, and one I'm not so keen on... but oh well. I love the fourth!

Reply 59

Luxun3

afua12

To be honest I think Cambridge's policy on this issue is just totally right. I always wonder why people try to do a joint degree in Chinese & Japanese for example or Chinese & Arabic( and why unis actually offer such combinations). I mean even if you have a post A-Level standard in one of those languages you wont be fluent in any of the two at the end of the degree. You have the problem that you cant spend a year in both countries what is a disadvantage and you can not spend enough time on either language because you have to concentrate on two and not one language. As I said even if you would do Post-A-Level German and Chinese, you could not devote enough time on Chinese to master the language.

In the end it comes down to what language you really are into and which one you really want to do at uni, because languages like Chinese just take so much time to master them.
That is why I think that the course at Cambridge is really the best choice if you want to combine mastering the language(if that is even possible at all in only 4 years) and studying Chinese culture,history etc.
At other unis that is not the case in my opinion. I did also apply for Chinese and Politics at SOAS. Although I am sure the course there is really great and demanding it is possible there to do a lot of floaters in your 3rd/4th years, so that you do less Chinese. If I had gone there I could have gained a degree in Chinese and Politics by only doing 1 or 2 courses of Chinese in year 3 and 4. The other 6 courses could have been Politics papers and floaters.
That is what makes the course at Cambridge so different I guess. You have to do 3 courses of Chinese every year. That might be harder than elsewhere but it somewhat guarantees that you gain a certain level of Chinese, whereas one can avoid doing that much Chinese(especially classical Chinese) at other unis.

In the end everybody must see for himself but one wants. If you are not interested in classical Chinese for example the courses at Leeds/SOAS might be better than the Cambridge course.