I hate Vegetarians.
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please clarify which point in the edit you are arguing for, if it is the leather one I am well aware that is in the vegan definition and not 'strictly' in the vegetarian one (though I would argue no proper vegetarian would wear leather), however if it is that vegans have to be doing it for a moral reason you are just wrong.
Mithra
So you are asserting that morality is an essential component of veganism? Give me ONE definition quote that claims that, wikipedia and every website I have checked so far don't.
veganism isn't necessarily a moral act but it is far more likely to be due to the mostly exclusively moral acts it contains e.g. no leather products,no milk etc
lella_m
please don't hate me, you've ruined my life 
Not seen that rant before but I'm used to seeing those originating from American places.
I second everyone on this thread who remarked that you need help. Try and be more tolerant of people who don't like what you do or live like you do. The world would be a much better place 
Grab an ak and head to your nearest school.
Ever so slightly passive-aggressive, eh, OP?
I don't know of anyone who 'can't' eat meat, but many that choose not to do so. We're after all a progressive society.
If vegetarians choose to wear leather products, that's ultimately their moral case to defend. It is an inconsistent position to maintain, and I'll choose not to defend it.
You might feel like you're being 'attacked' for your meat-eating ways, but do you ever think about it?
I don't really understand the point of your 3-1 plan, to spite people? For what reason, for the reason they have adopted a moral/lifestyle position that you appear to despise?
I don't think many people feel 'holy or dignified' so changing their diets, they may have many different reasons for doing so, have you ever asked?
Please present to us your defence of meat-eating, as you seem to insist that vegetarians push their agenda on you all the time.
I don't know of anyone who 'can't' eat meat, but many that choose not to do so. We're after all a progressive society.
If vegetarians choose to wear leather products, that's ultimately their moral case to defend. It is an inconsistent position to maintain, and I'll choose not to defend it.
You might feel like you're being 'attacked' for your meat-eating ways, but do you ever think about it?
I don't really understand the point of your 3-1 plan, to spite people? For what reason, for the reason they have adopted a moral/lifestyle position that you appear to despise?
I don't think many people feel 'holy or dignified' so changing their diets, they may have many different reasons for doing so, have you ever asked?
Please present to us your defence of meat-eating, as you seem to insist that vegetarians push their agenda on you all the time.
I know you're a utilitarian 'n' everythin' but what's wrong with eating dead animals?
ROFL, you aren't? I failed 
what about the rights-are-nonsense-on-stilts-benthamism talk? I always make snap judgements so don't be alarmed
Anyways, I'm talking about eating animals not killing them.
The demand and supply situation is not very convicing, imo. Demand for non-human animal meat shouldnt justify supply. Just as demand for human meat doesn't justify growing human meat for consumption. If there was demand for human baby meat in your town, do you think anyone would actually go ahead and ...grow babies for consumption? I don't think so. For two reasons. The most important one, moral reasons. Most people believe that it is extremely immoral to kill a human baby let alone start a human-baby-growing-business. Why do they think that that sort of business is immoral? I dunno - but they strongly do (rightly so - they all have different reasons which I can not know though). And the second reason which kind of follows from this, is the legal situation. It's illegal to do that. You will go to jail, pay fines, experience social humiliation (moral reason actually) and whatever. But who created these laws? essentially, public support did. People wanted to protect themselves and their neighbours (but mainly themselves)
Therefore, the problem here, is not a practical one (demand and supply) but rather a moral and a (less importantly*) legal one. If the majority of the people really believed that animals have some sort of rights or right then they would protect them just like they protect humans. They would create laws to stop people from producing animals for meat. But how many people believe that that's a "sensible" position? like 5% of the general population? 10%?
what about the rights-are-nonsense-on-stilts-benthamism talk? I always make snap judgements so don't be alarmed
Anyways, I'm talking about eating animals not killing them.
The demand and supply situation is not very convicing, imo. Demand for non-human animal meat shouldnt justify supply. Just as demand for human meat doesn't justify growing human meat for consumption. If there was demand for human baby meat in your town, do you think anyone would actually go ahead and ...grow babies for consumption? I don't think so. For two reasons. The most important one, moral reasons. Most people believe that it is extremely immoral to kill a human baby let alone start a human-baby-growing-business. Why do they think that that sort of business is immoral? I dunno - but they strongly do (rightly so - they all have different reasons which I can not know though). And the second reason which kind of follows from this, is the legal situation. It's illegal to do that. You will go to jail, pay fines, experience social humiliation (moral reason actually) and whatever. But who created these laws? essentially, public support did. People wanted to protect themselves and their neighbours (but mainly themselves
)Therefore, the problem here, is not a practical one (demand and supply) but rather a moral and a (less importantly*) legal one. If the majority of the people really believed that animals have some sort of rights or right then they would protect them just like they protect humans. They would create laws to stop people from producing animals for meat. But how many people believe that that's a "sensible" position? like 5% of the general population? 10%?
I never said this. You totally misunderstood me. What I said was that eating meat is not the problem. The problem is that people are not convinced that animals need to be respected. For instance, I know people who eat meat yet they are convinced that animals need some sort of protection. But they still eat meat. However, if you ask them, would you ban meat production? they'd say yes.
So the problem, imo, lies with producing meat not eating meat.
So the problem, imo, lies with producing meat not eating meat.
Ok let me start off by saying if your one of those people that are vegetarians because of "animal cruelty...OMFG its so wrong to eat animals and kill them!...animal rights!!!"..then the following extract is for you...if your just a vegetarian because you dislike meat in general like the taste of it or something, then dont read the following because your not whats wrong with vegetarians...
anyway, first off
1. We are animals. Believe it or not we are not special or different then most life on this planet, so why should we behave differently?? Our instincts is to hunt for our food, we are predators..its the way we are built. We are built to kill and eat anything below us in the food chain for food, protection and survival. The reason why these people become vegetarians is because they're spoilt and havent experienced hunger... trust me...if they werent so spoilt like most people nowadays...they would worship meat and wouldnt hesitate to eat it! so... because their food supply is plenty, they think they're special by customising their diet..when in reality they are just ungrateful idiots who dont appreciate how lucky they are. So by becoming vegetarians for ethics and moral reasons its just wrong as its essentially NOT human. You try and go tell a lion not to eat a zebra because "OMG you'll hurt its feelings and cause it to suffer and die!"...if the lion could reply he would say something like this "F*** you b***, Im hungry". Therefore ive proved that becoming veggie for "morality and OMFG that poor chicken had a miserable life" is completely inhuman...as were animals, we need to eat etc.
2. Meat is good for us. Yes meat is very good for us..(unless you eat like 50 burgers a day or something). Meat, Fish and eggs are the best source of protein period! There isnt anything plant related that can even come close...not even the soya bean. Protein is essential in a diet...especially for growth and tissue repair..and by being a vegetarian your probably not gonna get enough. So there i just proved health wise, why consuming meat is right.
Again this is mostly aimed at people that become veggies for moral and ethic issues..and not so much at people that just dont like the taste of meat.
So really there isnt an advantage to being a vegetarian...not health wise..or even socially really..i mean since it kinda makes situations awkward especially when meeting new people.
Guy 1: " Hey man wanna go grab burger at Burger King"
Guy 2: " Errr.... I'm a vegetarian lol?"
Guy 1: "ooohhh..erm....errr... wanna go eat a tree?"
anyway i hope no one is offended by this, its my opinion..and if your wondering how i had the patience to write all of this..well.....its was this or studying lol.
anyway, first off
1. We are animals. Believe it or not we are not special or different then most life on this planet, so why should we behave differently?? Our instincts is to hunt for our food, we are predators..its the way we are built. We are built to kill and eat anything below us in the food chain for food, protection and survival. The reason why these people become vegetarians is because they're spoilt and havent experienced hunger... trust me...if they werent so spoilt like most people nowadays...they would worship meat and wouldnt hesitate to eat it! so... because their food supply is plenty, they think they're special by customising their diet..when in reality they are just ungrateful idiots who dont appreciate how lucky they are. So by becoming vegetarians for ethics and moral reasons its just wrong as its essentially NOT human. You try and go tell a lion not to eat a zebra because "OMG you'll hurt its feelings and cause it to suffer and die!"...if the lion could reply he would say something like this "F*** you b***, Im hungry". Therefore ive proved that becoming veggie for "morality and OMFG that poor chicken had a miserable life" is completely inhuman...as were animals, we need to eat etc.
2. Meat is good for us. Yes meat is very good for us..(unless you eat like 50 burgers a day or something). Meat, Fish and eggs are the best source of protein period! There isnt anything plant related that can even come close...not even the soya bean. Protein is essential in a diet...especially for growth and tissue repair..and by being a vegetarian your probably not gonna get enough. So there i just proved health wise, why consuming meat is right.
Again this is mostly aimed at people that become veggies for moral and ethic issues..and not so much at people that just dont like the taste of meat.
So really there isnt an advantage to being a vegetarian...not health wise..or even socially really..i mean since it kinda makes situations awkward especially when meeting new people.
Guy 1: " Hey man wanna go grab burger at Burger King"
Guy 2: " Errr.... I'm a vegetarian lol?"
Guy 1: "ooohhh..erm....errr... wanna go eat a tree?"
anyway i hope no one is offended by this, its my opinion..and if your wondering how i had the patience to write all of this..well.....its was this or studying
lol.
IStruggleWithChemistry
Meat, Fish and eggs are the best source of protein period! There isnt anything plant related that can even come close...not even the soya bean.
Meat, Fish and eggs are the best source of protein period! There isnt anything plant related that can even come close...not even the soya bean.
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=galleries
What exactly do you understand of what makes a good protein source? The idea that vegetarians/vegans cannot get enough protein on their diet is one of the most out dated and widely discredited arguments against these diets. Please do at least little background reading before you dive in with such aggressive prejudices.
Ok. Before i reply i would like explain somethings that i think needed to be established. So i might have used crazy scenarios, with a talking lion and the "wanna eat a tree?".The reason why i decided to use a lion is simply because it was the first "meat hungry" animal that popped into my head at the time. My point that i wanted to get across from that example was to make a comparison of a human to "another" animal, which ill get into a little more. Yes, i do understand that the human brain has much more capacity and potential than a lions brain, which allows us to 'comprehend morality' but regardless my point was simply that we are just another species..and perhaps i went abit overboard with the lion scenario.
1. No where in that article that i wrote did i say that you couldnt "feed more people land and raw resource wise on a vegan diet". You somehow seem to think that im stating that we should all be carnivores and eat meat like theres no tomorrow. Well no. To be honest i think that meat should be eaten in moderation in a diet, just like everything else. Meat or any other major part of a diet shouldnt be abused. What im trying to prove is that meat and fish simply shouldnt be avoided completely (especially regarding morality). I do agree that the usage of a resource regarding the quantity, doesnt have much baring on morality. That was more of an opinion of mine. But if you look at it from a different perspective and think at the possibility of how people create certain morals. I can easily argue that people create morals based on their environment and surroundings and i can also argue that it could most likely to be effected by someones upbringing. Not only is someones mentality formed by families, friends and such but i can easily say that "where" you live/lived will have a big impact on these "morals" of a person. Yes, the community, traditions and political state of a country believe it or not will/most likely will effect your judgement. For example, you live in a democratic republic/monarchy where freedom is one of the main pull slogans. Because of this im pretty sure that you're given the deifinition between whats wrong and right both morally and ethically. You grow up thinking everything against the law is wrong and also everything that is against the community is wrong, such as adultery and so on. To get to the point, one in this situation has certain morals ingrained into them already but also has the freedom and lever to create new morals where their environment simply allows them to. And this shows. Certain countries from different parts of the world have different beliefs to what is wrong or right. So once again i could enforce that people that become vegetarians or "vegans" for moral reasons have all similar quality of lives and most likely live in democratic, developed countries. The statistical trends also show this on the world vegetarian population distribution. So if your vegan due to moral reasons i can easily say that the reason why that is so is due where in the world your from and you probably wouldnt think in the same way if you were placed in a non similar location/ environment in the first place.
"Just because you have access to a resource others don't have, doesn't mean you should or shouldn't use that resource. That has no baring on morality." So yeah... from a different perspective you could say people developed a moral because they simply can (they have the option to), therefore that moral might involve not using a certain resource.
2. Yes protein is incredibly easy to obtain, that is undeniable. BUT you cannot obtain protein from fruit and vegetables at the same rate as protein from meat and fish. An ounce of meat, fish and poultry have on average 7+ grams of protein whilst fruit and vegetables carry approx. 2 grams per 1/2 cup. The average person for a healthy diet need around 60 - 80grams of protein daily. Therefore a vegan diet would take much more work to reach that value rather than a mixed one.
I laugh at the idea of critical thinking. Why would i waste my time on something as subtle and pointless when i have other studies to focus on....such as chemistry...i really do struggle with chem lol...
anyway, i do give props to you as you atleast reply more intelligently than most people in these forums...you actually made me think for half a second.
But this is still my opinion.
1. No where in that article that i wrote did i say that you couldnt "feed more people land and raw resource wise on a vegan diet". You somehow seem to think that im stating that we should all be carnivores and eat meat like theres no tomorrow. Well no. To be honest i think that meat should be eaten in moderation in a diet, just like everything else. Meat or any other major part of a diet shouldnt be abused. What im trying to prove is that meat and fish simply shouldnt be avoided completely (especially regarding morality). I do agree that the usage of a resource regarding the quantity, doesnt have much baring on morality. That was more of an opinion of mine. But if you look at it from a different perspective and think at the possibility of how people create certain morals. I can easily argue that people create morals based on their environment and surroundings and i can also argue that it could most likely to be effected by someones upbringing. Not only is someones mentality formed by families, friends and such but i can easily say that "where" you live/lived will have a big impact on these "morals" of a person. Yes, the community, traditions and political state of a country believe it or not will/most likely will effect your judgement. For example, you live in a democratic republic/monarchy where freedom is one of the main pull slogans. Because of this im pretty sure that you're given the deifinition between whats wrong and right both morally and ethically. You grow up thinking everything against the law is wrong and also everything that is against the community is wrong, such as adultery and so on. To get to the point, one in this situation has certain morals ingrained into them already but also has the freedom and lever to create new morals where their environment simply allows them to. And this shows. Certain countries from different parts of the world have different beliefs to what is wrong or right. So once again i could enforce that people that become vegetarians or "vegans" for moral reasons have all similar quality of lives and most likely live in democratic, developed countries. The statistical trends also show this on the world vegetarian population distribution. So if your vegan due to moral reasons i can easily say that the reason why that is so is due where in the world your from and you probably wouldnt think in the same way if you were placed in a non similar location/ environment in the first place.
"Just because you have access to a resource others don't have, doesn't mean you should or shouldn't use that resource. That has no baring on morality." So yeah... from a different perspective you could say people developed a moral because they simply can (they have the option to), therefore that moral might involve not using a certain resource.
2. Yes protein is incredibly easy to obtain, that is undeniable. BUT you cannot obtain protein from fruit and vegetables at the same rate as protein from meat and fish. An ounce of meat, fish and poultry have on average 7+ grams of protein whilst fruit and vegetables carry approx. 2 grams per 1/2 cup. The average person for a healthy diet need around 60 - 80grams of protein daily. Therefore a vegan diet would take much more work to reach that value rather than a mixed one.
I laugh at the idea of critical thinking. Why would i waste my time on something as subtle and pointless when i have other studies to focus on....such as chemistry...i really do struggle with chem lol...
anyway, i do give props to you as you atleast reply more intelligently than most people in these forums...you actually made me think for half a second.
But this is still my opinion.
splunket
http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=galleries
What exactly do you understand of what makes a good protein source? The idea that vegetarians/vegans cannot get enough protein on their diet is one of the most out dated and widely discredited arguments against these diets. Please do at least little background reading before you dive in with such aggressive prejudices.
What exactly do you understand of what makes a good protein source? The idea that vegetarians/vegans cannot get enough protein on their diet is one of the most out dated and widely discredited arguments against these diets. Please do at least little background reading before you dive in with such aggressive prejudices.
if you look at my most recent post on this you'll see i went more in depth on this subject and explained fully the differences.
Thank you come again.....
IStruggleWithChemistry
The average person for a healthy diet need around 60 - 80grams of protein daily.
The average person for a healthy diet need around 60 - 80grams of protein daily.
The FSA recommends a 55g of protein a day for the average adult over 19. You would be hard pushed to find a higher figure for this, especially in reference to recommended protein intake in women. Have you ever even heard of a vegetarian with a protein deficiency?
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