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Original post by pappymajek
Those A levels will definitely get you into med skl-no doubts. However, you need to start thinking beyond getting into med skl and what A levels would help you maximize opportunities within the medical field. When you start your clinicals, you'll understand better.
Courses like history of medicine, medical ethics, epidemiology/Public health, anatomy, biochemistry, pathology, immunology, pharmacology-these all form the foundation of med skl and do not require any knowledge of further maths.

You are much better off familiarising yourself with the bit of maths that you really need for medicine-statistics-how to read a paper, how to appraise a research paper, etc.

Just my little contribution.


But there's no disadvantage of doing Further Maths.

If they want to do it, they should do it. Just because it isn't a requirement doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. Personally, I couldn't be bothered with the effort of doing it, but it someone wants to, I don't really think there's any reason against it.

There are no A Levels that particularly "maximise your opportunity within the medical field" so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about there.
considering the Uni's(UCL, Imperial and Kings)

At the moment im in year 12 and i want to go on to do medicine at one of the Uni's specified. My subjects at AS currently are Biology, Chemistry, Maths and RE.
My query is if 'i drop maths for A2 and instead take Biology, Chemistry and RE' will i still be able to get into these universities??

so with my ending with 3 A levels and 1 AS.
3 A levels: BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY, RE
1 AS: MATHS

with those will i be able to do medicine or do i need maths at A2 for the specified unis..

Reply asap thanks
you should have posted in the Medicine forum.

But back to your question - yes it is possible to get into one of those Unis with A2s in Bio, Chem and RE.
considering the Uni's(UCL, Imperial and Kings)

At the moment im in year 12 and i want to go on to do medicine at one of the Uni's specified. My subjects at AS currently are Biology, Chemistry, Maths and RE.
My query is if 'i drop maths for A2 and instead take Biology, Chemistry and RE' will i still be able to get into these universities??

so with my ending with 3 A levels and 1 AS.
3 A levels: BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY, RE
1 AS: MATHS

with those will i be able to do medicine or do i need maths at A2 for the specified unis..

Reply asap thanks
Reply 2044
I believe Imperial require three sciences at A2, so you wouldn't be able to apply there.

UCL give some preference to those with a third, non-science A-Level so you'd be fine there.

Kings only require bio/chem at A2, with any third A2. You'd be fine.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Where_to_Study_Medicine
Reply 2045
Original post by Jonty99
But there's no disadvantage of doing Further Maths.

If they want to do it, they should do it. Just because it isn't a requirement doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. Personally, I couldn't be bothered with the effort of doing it, but it someone wants to, I don't really think there's any reason against it.

There are no A Levels that particularly "maximise your opportunity within the medical field" so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about there.


But there's no advantage of doing it. It's a waste of time seeing that half of the med schools don't recognise and it puts more stress on you to achieve the other grades that are actually required. Also doing something like English could help say if you want to do the BMAT, also some unis including UCL prefer students with contrasting subjects.
I know you've all seen this like a million times, but after all the headlines showed that students shouldn't take 'soft' subjects, I have become worried for my choices, and whether they will 'bar' me from the 'top universities'.

I was going to choose, Maths, Chemistry, Biology and Philosophy (to read medicine, as philosophy ethics tie in well), but then philosophy wasn't included in the Russell Group document as a 'hard' subject. Would it be better for me to change Philosophy for Geography (which to them is considered as a 'hard' and well respected humanity)?

As I intend to take Maths, Chemistry and Biology to A2, and would drop either philosophy/geography at AS, does it really matter which I choose, as I would say i'm equally good at both, but don't want to take one that may hinder my university choices later in life.
Philosophy is a strong subject. The Russell group document can bite me.

Take philosophy; even if admissions tutors considered it soft, as a fourth it wouldn't harm you at all.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
Philosophy is a strong subject. The Russell group document can bite me.

Take philosophy; even if admissions tutors considered it soft, as a fourth it wouldn't harm you at all.


Ahh okay, as I knew it isn't an easy subject.. But I can't believe that they just won't include it as a 'strong' humanity like history and geography..

I might just stick to my original 4 A-level options then, if they won't alter my chances for university :smile:
Original post by ryan118244
But there's no advantage of doing it. It's a waste of time seeing that half of the med schools don't recognise and it puts more stress on you to achieve the other grades that are actually required. Also doing something like English could help say if you want to do the BMAT, also some unis including UCL prefer students with contrasting subjects.


Only 2 universities prefer students with contrasting subjects.

The person who posted their subjects said they wanted to do Biology, Chemistry, Maths, Further MAths, PHysics. I could perhaps see the logic in someone suggesting they don't do Further Maths, to help tgive more time to their other subjects, but certainly suggesting doing English would be completely bizarre IMO.
Original post by Jonty99
But there's no disadvantage of doing Further Maths.

If they want to do it, they should do it. Just because it isn't a requirement doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. Personally, I couldn't be bothered with the effort of doing it, but it someone wants to, I don't really think there's any reason against it.

There are no A Levels that particularly "maximise your opportunity within the medical field" so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about there.



No problem Sir, all i'm saying is think beyond just getting into med skl. I have no further comments.

Good luck.
Reply 2051
Original post by Jonty99
Only 2 universities prefer students with contrasting subjects.

The person who posted their subjects said they wanted to do Biology, Chemistry, Maths, Further MAths, PHysics. I could perhaps see the logic in someone suggesting they don't do Further Maths, to help tgive more time to their other subjects, but certainly suggesting doing English would be completely bizarre IMO.


Not as bizarre as doing further maths!
Original post by ryan118244
But there's no advantage of doing it. It's a waste of time seeing that half of the med schools don't recognise and it puts more stress on you to achieve the other grades that are actually required. Also doing something like English could help say if you want to do the BMAT, also some unis including UCL prefer students with contrasting subjects.


Some people might just want to do it because, and this might seem crazy and perverse; they enjoy it.

Every person that I know that did Further Maths with the intention of studying Medicine walked away with at least all A's. It's generally those kind of people that choose to do it in the first place, so they're more than capable of getting the grades in their other subjects. It honestly isn't that big an increase in workload if you're good at the Maths.

At the end of the day, the only mandatory A Level for 90% of the Universities is Chemistry. Some Universities or Colleges at Oxbridge might specify that Biology is wanted as well, but anywhere else, you just fill in the gaps yourself.
Original post by ryan118244
Not as bizarre as doing further maths!


Doing Further Maths isn't bizarre if they want to do it. Maybe they enjoy maths?

I really don't see what's so hard to fathom about that.

It is infinitely more bizarre that you suggest someone do a subject totally different from the others they expressed an interest in.
Reply 2054
Original post by Jonty99
Doing Further Maths isn't bizarre if they want to do it. Maybe they enjoy maths?

I really don't see what's so hard to fathom about that.

It is infinitely more bizarre that you suggest someone do a subject totally different from the others they expressed an interest in.


If a person really wants to do it then they should. I was saying that you can get much more out of a subject that's contrasts and can be beneficial, because it seems on this general thread that people think doing all the sciences and maths are the best subjects for medicine.
Reply 2055
Original post by TwilightKnight
Some people might just want to do it because, and this might seem crazy and perverse; they enjoy it.

Every person that I know that did Further Maths with the intention of studying Medicine walked away with at least all A's. It's generally those kind of people that choose to do it in the first place, so they're more than capable of getting the grades in their other subjects. It honestly isn't that big an increase in workload if you're good at the Maths.

At the end of the day, the only mandatory A Level for 90% of the Universities is Chemistry. Some Universities or Colleges at Oxbridge might specify that Biology is wanted as well, but anywhere else, you just fill in the gaps yourself.


I don't disagree with you, if someone really wants to do a particular subject then they should, but no one said they really wanted to do it just that they were, my point is if your only going to do it for the sake of it or because you think it will give you an edge or you just want to do more than the average then another subject would be better as further maths isn't recognised by most med schools.

Also a lot of med schools actually want both biology and chemistry to Alevel and if not then they want AS biology. Again I'm talking about maximising chances of getting into med school, a subject like English etc which focuses of writing skills etc would allow you to most likely do Better for example in the essay section of the BMAT.
Original post by ryan118244
I don't disagree with you, if someone really wants to do a particular subject then they should, but no one said they really wanted to do it just that they were, my point is if your only going to do it for the sake of it or because you think it will give you an edge or you just want to do more than the average then another subject would be better as further maths isn't recognised by most med schools.

Also a lot of med schools actually want both biology and chemistry to Alevel and if not then they want AS biology. Again I'm talking about maximising chances of getting into med school, a subject like English etc which focuses of writing skills etc would allow you to most likely do Better for example in the essay section of the BMAT.


I have an A at English A Level that I got when I was 16, and would've been an A* if I had done it a year later; the only part that it would have remotely helped me with on the essay section would be the Use of Language grade (which I got an 'A' mark in). Something like 60-70% of applicants this year got an 'A' mark. All you need to do is not misspell and use good grammar and you've got it.

As far as essay writing skill, that's something that you can learn without doing an A Level - I would actually argue that the 'Essay writing skill' you get from doing an English A Level is quite different from the sort of essay you have to write for the BMAT. In reality, because of how science orientated your essay is likely to be, A Level Vs GCSE English capability would be indistinguishable.

Just to play devils advocate here, having done the BMAT, I would argue that doing Further Maths would help more overall than doing English would, purely because Decision Maths would actually help a lot for Section 1 (Logic based problems, maximising times etc), and general Mathematic ability/ confidence would help a lot for Section 2. I know it did for me. If I hadn't of been doing Mechanics 2/3 at the time, I wouldn't have known a trigonometric ratio that helped me split a trapezium into manageable, formulated triangles that I could then use to solve it, and one of the Energy/ Momentum questions was phrased in a way that only AS Physics/ Mechanics students would have understood in time.

My point being, that your 3rd/ 4th /5th choice is your choice. It's all well and good saying that doing these 4 subjects maximizes your chance of getting into Medical school A, but the reality is that you're studying these subjects for 2 years, and that's a long time to be studying something you might not enjoy. If someone enjoys Maths enough to want to do Further Maths, then to put them off doing something that might actually, indirectly keep them focused and attentive during their other subjects due to breaking up the monotony because "Universities don't want it" is missing the point of learning something in the first place.

This isn't actually aimed at you, by the way, it's general frustration I have with people pigeonholing students into potentially doing a subject(s) they don't like in the hopes that they will get where they want to get. While that might seem like a worthwhile endeavor on paper, I would argue that if you feel you can't enjoy yourself in your studies along the way even a little, you're sacrificing too much for something you haven't even experienced yet.
Reply 2057
Original post by TwilightKnight
I have an A at English A Level that I got when I was 16, and would've been an A* if I had done it a year later; the only part that it would have remotely helped me with on the essay section would be the Use of Language grade (which I got an 'A' mark in). Something like 60-70% of applicants this year got an 'A' mark. All you need to do is not misspell and use good grammar and you've got it.

As far as essay writing skill, that's something that you can learn without doing an A Level - I would actually argue that the 'Essay writing skill' you get from doing an English A Level is quite different from the sort of essay you have to write for the BMAT. In reality, because of how science orientated your essay is likely to be, A Level Vs GCSE English capability would be indistinguishable.

Just to play devils advocate here, having done the BMAT, I would argue that doing Further Maths would help more overall than doing English would, purely because Decision Maths would actually help a lot for Section 1 (Logic based problems, maximising times etc), and general Mathematic ability/ confidence would help a lot for Section 2. I know it did for me. If I hadn't of been doing Mechanics 2/3 at the time, I wouldn't have known a trigonometric ratio that helped me split a trapezium into manageable, formulated triangles that I could then use to solve it, and one of the Energy/ Momentum questions was phrased in a way that only AS Physics/ Mechanics students would have understood in time.

My point being, that your 3rd/ 4th /5th choice is your choice. It's all well and good saying that doing these 4 subjects maximizes your chance of getting into Medical school A, but the reality is that you're studying these subjects for 2 years, and that's a long time to be studying something you might not enjoy. If someone enjoys Maths enough to want to do Further Maths, then to put them off doing something that might actually, indirectly keep them focused and attentive during their other subjects due to breaking up the monotony because "Universities don't want it" is missing the point of learning something in the first place.

This isn't actually aimed at you, by the way, it's general frustration I have with people pigeonholing students into potentially doing a subject(s) they don't like in the hopes that they will get where they want to get. While that might seem like a worthwhile endeavor on paper, I would argue that if you feel you can't enjoy yourself in your studies along the way even a little, you're sacrificing too much for something you haven't even experienced yet.


That's the exact same point I'm trying to make, I agree that you should do a subject you want and not subjects which you conform to, because so many people said to me I had to do bio, chem, maths and psychics and I didn't do the latter 2, I'm trying to say that you should do subjects that you want and I don't think doing a subject like further maths is worth doing just for the sake of it, the original person never said they wanted to do it, just that they were, thus they could have been told that to have a chance at med school they needed to do all those types of subjects, when you don't.

Also I still kinda disagree, because I'm crap at maths, have never done it and I still got 680 in that section in the UKCAT, which is above average and I actually did better than my friends who all did maths and some did further maths. Also as with the BMAT again friends that I have, those who did English did better in the essay section than those who didn't, and vice versa, those who did all the sciences and maths did better in the science part ... my point is you should do both because it produces someone who is better all rounded. At the end of the day it's personal opinion and personal experience. Also I'm my experience doing contrasting subjects has given me different skills than what I got out of my science subjects

So my overall point is you should do the subjects that you want and not be talked into doing all science, maths and further maths, if you want a heavy work load and want to do like 5 subjects then doing another subject that contrasts in my opinion would produce a more well rounded student, after all are those not the principles of the international baccalaureate.
Original post by ryan118244

So my overall point is you should do the subjects that you want and not be talked into doing all science, maths and further maths, if you want a heavy work load and want to do like 5 subjects then doing another subject that contrasts in my opinion would produce a more well rounded student, after all are those not the principles of the international baccalaureate.


If someone wants to do 5 subjects (or indeed, no matter how many subjects they do), they should do subjects they enjoy.

Whether that is all sciences, and further maths, or bio chem history and english, it doesn't really matter.
Reply 2059
Original post by Jonty99
If someone wants to do 5 subjects (or indeed, no matter how many subjects they do), they should do subjects they enjoy.

Whether that is all sciences, and further maths, or bio chem history and english, it doesn't really matter.


Isn't that exactly what I just said!?!?

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