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Reply 6160
Original post by IanDangerously
Absolutely, and it should. Raw is the flagship of World Wrestling Entertainment, it draws 5 million viewers on average every week and it's live. Smackdown is a secondary show with about half the audience.

A lot of the times SmackDown is actually the better wrestling show though because Vince doesn't interfere with it the way he does with Raw. The top level of WWE management don't give two ****s about Smackdown as long as it maintains its audience and because of that at times we've seen a great product over there.


It was probably around 2002-2003 when Smackdown actually became the better show - Lesnar and Angle even main-evented Wrestlemania. Raw at that time was quite boring and repetitive with the same people at the top, just Triple H.

While Smackdown had Lesnar, Angle, Taker, Big Show, Eddie Guerrero and Benoit for consistent good matches.
Reply 6161
Original post by VQG
While Smackdown had Lesnar, Angle, Taker, Big Show, Eddie Guerrero and Benoit for consistent good matches.


Can't believe I just read 'Big Show' in the same sentence as 'Angle' and 'Benoit'.
Reply 6162
Fave Five Currently

1) Jericho! Y2GOAT
2) D-Bryan! YES!!!! YES!!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
3) Sheamus
4) CM PUNK
5) Christian

honourable mention to Johnny Ace! MR. EXCITEMENT!
Reply 6163
[video="youtube;cXZWkpxtRnM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZWkpxtRnM[/video]
Original post by Gridiron-Gangster
1) Joint between Hulk Hogan/The Rock
2) The Undertaker
3) Bret 'The Hitman' Hart
4) Shawn Michaels
5)Stone Cold Steve Austin
6) Ric Flair/Sting joint
7) Triple H
8) Macho Man Randy Savage
9)Mick Foley
10) Bill Goldberg
11) Adam Copeland aka Edge
12) Eddie Guererro
13) John Cena
14) Chris Jericho
15) Andre the Giant
16) Brun Samartino (google him)
17) Rey Mysterio Jr
18) Kevin Nash
19) Iron Sheik
20) Ultimate Warrior

Those who just missed out: British Bulldog, Ricky the Dragon Steamboat, Jimmy Superfly Snuka, Curt Henning, Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase, Gorgeous George, Classy Freddie Blassie, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Psycho Sid/Sid Justice/Sid Viscious, Ron Simmons, Chris Benoit (yeah I would rank him).



Original post by IanDangerously
1) Stone Cold Steve Austin
2) The Rock
3) The 4 Horsemen
4) Shawn Michaels
5) The Undertaker
6) Mankind
7) Terry Funk
8) Chris Jericho
9) Sabu
10) The Road Warriors
11) Dusty Rhodes
12) Edge
13) Triple H
14) Ricky Steamboat
15) The Great Muta
16) Brian Pillman
17) Vader
18) Eddie Guerrero Jr.
19) Roddy Piper
20) Mr Perfect


Can't believe Angle or Benoit aren't included in either of your lists. Both of them would probably be in my top 5.

If I have the time later, and if I remember, I may come up with a list of my own.
Reply 6165
Original post by nonotrly
Can't believe I just read 'Big Show' in the same sentence as 'Angle' and 'Benoit'.


Well he did put up some pretty impressive shows against Lesnar and Angle - I thought his matches with them was one of the bigger draws in the WWE then.
Original post by IanDangerously
Absolutely, and it should. Raw is the flagship of World Wrestling Entertainment, it draws 5 million viewers on average every week and it's live. Smackdown is a secondary show with about half the audience.

A lot of the times SmackDown is actually the better wrestling show though because Vince doesn't interfere with it the way he does with Raw. The top level of WWE management don't give two ****s about Smackdown as long as it maintains its audience and because of that at times we've seen a great product over there.


Good point, but I think they could develop Smackdown or give it a bit more hype and publicity. I find the storylines to very mundane and at the past Wrestlemania, no one cared about any of their headline wrestlers. I like Sheamus, but his match with Daniel Bryan was over as soon as it began. A good spin but it epitomised the lack of attentiveness for Smackdown. (I'm hoping here that Sheamus and Daniel Bryan are on Smackdown haha).

Then again, I think the whole 'brand' issue is being phased out, there's no longer as much rigidity over superstars being on a certain brand which is a good move.

About Vince McMahon, is he still actively involved or has he taken a back seat?
Reply 6167
Original post by VQG
Well he did put up some pretty impressive shows against Lesnar and Angle - I thought his matches with them was one of the bigger draws in the WWE then.


Big Show was alright in his earlier years. Last 5-6 though he's been pretty awful in my opinion, a few food moments for sure but overall I've not been that impressed.

I'm loving Mark Henry though, pure hilarious and an absolute beast.

Hope he gets another dominant run.

MARK HENRY = RATINGS!! WWWYKI
Original post by VQG
It was probably around 2002-2003 when Smackdown actually became the better show - Lesnar and Angle even main-evented Wrestlemania. Raw at that time was quite boring and repetitive with the same people at the top, just Triple H.

While Smackdown had Lesnar, Angle, Taker, Big Show, Eddie Guerrero and Benoit for consistent good matches.


Yeah Smackdown was great then, it's had other periods where its been really good as well though. A lot of the time its been like WCW where the stuff on top sucked but the midcard had some excellent matches. Guys like Booker, Finlay, Regal, Matt Hardy, MVP, London and Kendrick and Shelton Benjamin propped the brand up with excellent matches.

Original post by TheMagicRat
Can't believe Angle or Benoit aren't included in either of your lists. Both of them would probably be in my top 5.

If I have the time later, and if I remember, I may come up with a list of my own.


I would include them, I just forgot about them! This is why I hate making these kind of lists, I always overlook people.
Original post by Cheese_Monster
Good point, but I think they could develop Smackdown or give it a bit more hype and publicity. I find the storylines to very mundane and at the past Wrestlemania, no one cared about any of their headline wrestlers. I like Sheamus, but his match with Daniel Bryan was over as soon as it began. A good spin but it epitomised the lack of attentiveness for Smackdown. (I'm hoping here that Sheamus and Daniel Bryan are on Smackdown haha).

Then again, I think the whole 'brand' issue is being phased out, there's no longer as much rigidity over superstars being on a certain brand which is a good move.

About Vince McMahon, is he still actively involved or has he taken a back seat?


Their idea of giving Smackdown more hype is putting their wrestlers on the RAW Supershow on Mondays, but it really isnt translating into viewers for Smackdown. They do a few live specials and the ratings go up but its still nothing like Raw. I think after years of telling people Smackdown is an inferior show (without directly saying it) they've just made us all think that way.

I'm actually glad the brand split is being more officially phased out because it's been like that for years anyway. Even back as far as 2006 you had Raw's John Cena headlining Smackdown pay-per-views and guys would just randomly show up on the other show for no reason.

Vince is still very much involved in the creative process and that's part of the problem. I think the writers there are writing stuff they know will please him, not the audience.
Original post by IanDangerously
I would include them, I just forgot about them! This is why I hate making these kind of lists, I always overlook people.


Ha! I, too, am not a fan of doing these kind of things because I nearly always end up leaving someone out that I shouldn't have.
Anyone think Smackdown will be nicely revamped under Johnny?

So glad Teddy is out tbh, never liked him.
Original post by IanDangerously
Their idea of giving Smackdown more hype is putting their wrestlers on the RAW Supershow on Mondays, but it really isnt translating into viewers for Smackdown. They do a few live specials and the ratings go up but its still nothing like Raw. I think after years of telling people Smackdown is an inferior show (without directly saying it) they've just made us all think that way.

I'm actually glad the brand split is being more officially phased out because it's been like that for years anyway. Even back as far as 2006 you had Raw's John Cena headlining Smackdown pay-per-views and guys would just randomly show up on the other show for no reason.

Vince is still very much involved in the creative process and that's part of the problem. I think the writers there are writing stuff they know will please him, not the audience.


I agree, I don't have sky sports so I check the WWE website weekly, I don't tend to check the Smackdown results until the Monday night after Raw.

That's true, but I think the brand split was more defined, there was a bigger emphasis on brand warfare especially with the re-emergence of ECW.

I think the main problem isn't Vince, its the direction of the company. It has headed towards being strongly PG reducing the very concept of entertainment value in action and storyline to a franchise for children. The Deadliest Catch stuff at Wrestlemania definitely sealed that opinion for me. I think this is the reason Dave Batista left also?

If it is a watershed programme, I don't see the problem with a bit of blood here and there? My last rant will be at Divas. Yes they're gorgeous, but I used to love the divas that were gorgeous, had charisma and could actually produce good matches i.e. Lita, Trish Stratus, Mickie James, Chyna, Jazz...
Original post by rickjames
Anyone think Smackdown will be nicely revamped under Johnny?

So glad Teddy is out tbh, never liked him.


Teddy was there way too long for my liking and as I said a couple of weeks ago, I think heel GMs are better. I rarely go out of my way to watch Smackdown though but I may this week to see what he does.
We'l see a fued takeoff with Del Rio and Seamus.

No doubt smackdown will end tomorrow with Del Rio getting one over.
Reply 6175
Original post by VQG
Well he did put up some pretty impressive shows against Lesnar and Angle - I thought his matches with them was one of the bigger draws in the WWE then.


Aye, the conclusion you should come to is that that is because he was in the ring with Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar, and in his other less-solid matches he was not.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by TheMagicRat
Ha! I, too, am not a fan of doing these kind of things because I nearly always end up leaving someone out that I shouldn't have.


This is the trouble with lists, there's been so many great wrestlers it's hard to condense that into a specific number of people!

Original post by Cheese_Monster
I agree, I don't have sky sports so I check the WWE website weekly, I don't tend to check the Smackdown results until the Monday night after Raw.

That's true, but I think the brand split was more defined, there was a bigger emphasis on brand warfare especially with the re-emergence of ECW.

I think the main problem isn't Vince, its the direction of the company. It has headed towards being strongly PG reducing the very concept of entertainment value in action and storyline to a franchise for children. The Deadliest Catch stuff at Wrestlemania definitely sealed that opinion for me. I think this is the reason Dave Batista left also?

If it is a watershed programme, I don't see the problem with a bit of blood here and there? My last rant will be at Divas. Yes they're gorgeous, but I used to love the divas that were gorgeous, had charisma and could actually produce good matches i.e. Lita, Trish Stratus, Mickie James, Chyna, Jazz...


The direction of the company is guided by the majority shareholder, which in this case is Vince, so he is the main problem for me. I don't understand WWE's logic, last time they pushed their product specifically at kids in the mid-90s, the buyrates for the PPVs were appalling and they lost a ton of money. Now again, the buyrates are apalling and theyre not making money like they were. Kids don't have the money to spend on these things, and MOST parents wont drop $40 per month for their kid to watch 3 hours of wrestling when they get 7 hours of it for free a week.

Oh, and Chyna never had good matches.

Original post by TheMagicRat
Teddy was there way too long for my liking and as I said a couple of weeks ago, I think heel GMs are better. I rarely go out of my way to watch Smackdown though but I may this week to see what he does.


I think the whole GMs thing is overplayed. It was great in the days of Bischoff in WCW and McMahon during his run with Austin and HBK or Foley as the commish, but now its been done so many times with so many characters it doesnt mean anything. The way to go now is to scrap the on-air authority figure altogether and go back to having someone like a Jack Tunney from back in the day who appears on camera once in a blue moon when its REALLY necessary.
Just watched this mini-documentary ESPN made about Scott Hall. A fascinating watch, but also rather difficult to view at times. It's tragic what has happened to him, Razor Ramon was my favourite wrestler when I was little.



I recommend you all take twenty minutes of your time to watch it, although it is very sad.
Original post by IanDangerously
It's really hard to make just one list I think, I could kinda break my favourites down into those that are just great wrestlers and those that are the most entertaining. I'll try and combine them though! This will take some thinking about.

Here's the 20 best that I've seen. Not necessarily the biggest draws with the mainstream audience (eg Hogan isn't on the list because I find him very dull):

1) Stone Cold Steve Austin
2) The Rock
3) The 4 Horsemen
4) Shawn Michaels
5) The Undertaker
6) Mankind
7) Terry Funk
8) Chris Jericho
9) Sabu
10) The Road Warriors
11) Dusty Rhodes
12) Edge
13) Triple H
14) Ricky Steamboat
15) The Great Muta
16) Brian Pillman
17) Vader
18) Eddie Guerrero Jr.
19) Roddy Piper
20) Mr Perfect


I was contemplating adding Brian Pillman to the list and I stupidly overlooked Terry Funk but I guess Foley was the hardcore representative. Sure Funk was and is a legend but I felt Mick Foley popularised hardcore wrestling and brought it more to the mainstream and when I think of the most memorable matches of the Attitude era and growing up, most of them tend to involve Mick Foley.

Might have considered Arn Anderson but for me the top 20 had to be people who were also world champions which sadly Arn Anderson never was and imo probably one of the best wrestlers alongside British Bulldog, Roddy Piper, Ted Dibiase and Jerry Lawler to have never won a world title.

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