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Why is the EU a bad thing?

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Reply 20
Avatar for IAmNotKira
IAmNotKira
Original post by chrisawhitmore
The mispayments figures come from the EU budget myths section on the comission's website (which does fun things like claiming that the EU can't cost too much as it is much cheaper than national governments, while failing to note that those governments provide things like education, healthcare, policing, transport, welfare and a host of other functions that the EU does not provide). The section is entitled 'The EU budget is riddled with fraud' and the page is here: http://ec.europa.eu/budget/explained/myths/myths_en.cfm#4of15

I'm working on finding the studies for the regulation costs, they seem to have moved since I last saw them.


From what I can see mispayments, including fraud, are falling. Their press release on fraud reminded me of a very important point: the EU are going to try and get their money back. The figure you used doesn't in any way account for the money that, once mispaid, is returned and then redistributed.
Original post by IAmNotKira
From what I can see mispayments, including fraud, are falling. Their press release on fraud reminded me of a very important point: the EU are going to try and get their money back. The figure you used doesn't in any way account for the money that, once mispaid, is returned and then redistributed.


I can only give what the source will provide. The Commission didn't provide those figures so neither did I.
Original post by Romek
free trade and free movement of labour don't have many negatives


I take it you don't have the misfortune to have to live with eastern europeans then?

Typical EU supporter/leftie...... I'll preach and you lot practice....
Original post by zakji
I would say the EU isn't a bad thing as it opens up trade and promotes globalisation to an extent. I would say the issue is more the eurozone within the EU which has shown for some time it isn't sustainable

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio Z715e


Interesting, as the EU actually imposes rather aggressive protectionist policies on 'key' industries, which prevent global trade in favour of less efficient but more subsidised internal trade.
Original post by Romek
The EU is great in my opinion: free trade and free movement of labour don't have many negatives, and we need some way of competing with larger exporters such as the USA anyway.

The Eurozone on the other hand, is a different matter entirely. A shared currency inherently means that the Eurozone members share interest rates and exchange rates, which I can only see causing more problems than it's solving. Economies as different as Germany and Greece (for example) shouldn't be bound so closely to each other, and should be free to manipulate monetary policies in whatever way suits the country.


Well, free movement between nations of vastly varying economic circumstances has its problems, as the emigration from Greece and Spain will attest, as will the increased burdens on the healthcare and welfare systems of richer members from so called benefit and healthcare tourism (it is not uncommon for eastern Europeans with long-standing medical problems to suddenly discover they need surgery while visiting the UK, as our healthcare is both better than their home country and notably free)

As for free trade, I agree that it would be a good thing, if we were getting it. Billions of Euros of subsidies for everything from Danish steel mills to French car companies would suggest otherwise.
Because greater concentration of political power is never a good thing.
Reply 26
Avatar for 4metal
4metal
Original post by Davij038
Maybe I'm just ignorant but apart from being financially weak at the moment, why is the EU a bad thing?

UKIP people- No, it really isn't a German conspiracy to rule the world...


It's very simple. Let's say you pay 100£ of your tax money for the EU budget.

60% of this money will be given to the French farmers for growing expensive food. The rest of the money will be spent om moving their offices between Brussels and Strasbourg. This will NEVER change. Why? Because the French want it that way.

And then some of the money will go to the huge EU bureaucracy that has no problem wasting it on useless projects, siphoning money and red tape. There is no accountabilty and they make stupid rules that affect millions of people without consulting us. They make the rules and the British government has to comply. There is no democracy whatsoever.

In short, the EU is a joke. What Hitler and Napoleon failed in doing, the EU has finally accomplished. It's a system hell bent on destroying our lives and we have surrendered.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 27
Avatar for Spaz Man
Spaz Man
13
The EU and the ECHR are completely different entities BTW...
Reply 28
Avatar for flugelr
flugelr
19
Original post by Morgsie
60% of British Trade is with the Eurozone

See, I'd say that is a bad thing. We are putting all our eggs in one basket and this Eurozone crisis is showing us that the hard way. If we'd been more open to trade around the world we'd be in a better position.
Reply 29
Avatar for cpfc12
cpfc12
The EU in its earlier forms were positive i would say, in a globalised world a economic trade commission between a group of countries is positive and should be encouraged, but the European union that emerged from the Maasstricht treaty is all about collectivising everything, and has made many blatant attempts to undermine nation sovereignty of nation states, there is a fine line between having a free trade agreement and merging countries underneath a one government of unelected bureaucrats, who prevent referendums from reaching the masses, because they are deemed "populist" (basically we know better than the people attitude).

The only reason why the EU keeps a float in public opinion, is because it relies on cloaking itself under the new left, and as being a progressive organisation, which always gets the elitist middle class intellectuals all wet and gooey. I find it amusing how you come across students who brand you as being a bigot or xenophobe for being against the EU, the irony, the EU an organisation which is xenophobic in nature that it seeks to destroy national identities and cultures, and even wants to start wars in its name so it can become more legitimised is defended by people who apparently care about liberal values.

I would say the best way forward, is starting a fresh with a trade commission across europe, with way more transparency and public monitoring. to think that the war lord Tony Blair was going to be president of the EU makes my blood boil.
Original post by Davij038
Maybe I'm just ignorant but apart from being financially weak at the moment, why is the EU a bad thing?

UKIP people- No, it really isn't a German conspiracy to rule the world...


It will tax us to death, simples

The free market will be unattainable because of interference from regulations.
Per se, little.

But we need to re-negotiate our position within it, and not let it override our own decision-making.
Reply 32
Avatar for ukip72
ukip72
7
Original post by namithailoveyou
Per se, little.

But we need to re-negotiate our position within it, and not let it override our own decision-making.


The EU is supranational, the whole idea is that it can overrule all member states.
Also on the trade thing with those who say if we left then Europe would just stop trading with us, in all we are getting on for a £50 billion/yr trade deficit with the EU countries. They would have far more to lose out than we would! We focus dealing with the rapidly growing countries (like those in the Commonwealth who which we have much more in common with) rather than shackling ourselves to countries which could be economically blighted for a decade (or more).
Reply 34
Avatar for Azaro
Azaro
because its undemocratic, not transparant, expensive, and it will make states loose their sovereignty
Little snippet from an ECB speech which I found telling: 'we will do whatever is necessary to save the euro'

Not the people of the Eurozone. Not the economies of the members. Not to combat unemployment or save the thousands pushed into poverty by the crisis. They are going all out to save the currency, sacrificing the citizens of the eurozone at the altar of political principle. Because that, at the end of the day, is what the EU is about: European integration at any cost. They would rather see one Europe of universal poverty than 27 prosperous individual nations. That is why the EU is a bad thing.
Original post by Davij038
Maybe I'm just ignorant but apart from being financially weak at the moment, why is the EU a bad thing?

UKIP people- No, it really isn't a German conspiracy to rule the world...


Got another one: The CAP is putting farmers in developing nations out of business, as they cannot compete with subsidised EU exports. So the EU is taking money from the taxpayer to help third world farmers get going, then taking more money to put them out of business. As well as driving up our food prices. The only winners are farmers and Eurocrats. http://www.srfood.org/index.php/en/component/content/article/1674-cap-reform-must-put-an-end-to-dumping-un-expert
What I've noticed over the past 40+ years is that there's a definite right -wing shove towards our exit from the EU. This was the case even when it was commonly seen as a rich man's club. Example : The WI was very upset when health inspectors condemned some of its jam. 'Unelected Brussels beaurocrats interfering with our traditions', they cried. When it turned out that the offence was against the Food & Drugs Act of 1945, all went silent. There are many other instances of manipulation of fact, rumour & even jokes like the onesound BoJo used to write for a living. The way he'said acting now, he might start recycling old material. Charlie
The best thing about the EU is Article 50
Original post by ukip72
First of all UKIP don't believe the EU is a German conspiracy to rule the world.

1. Very undemocratic
2. We cannot govern ourselves in the EU
3. Far too expensive
4. EU membership entails ECHR liberal nonsense
5. Makes us unable to make our own trade dealsi

Quite simply I don't see any argument for EU membership


GSTQ


ECHR liberal nonsense, Like what? Preventing people being tortured and having evidence obtained by torture being used against them?
You do realise the ECHR was a direct response to the horrors of the Holocaust. Or was the Holocaust just liberal nonsense?

Yet another clueless kipper.

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