Pass Plus instructor wants £500+ for new alloy after I scraped it in lesson.

Hi, I'm in a bit of a sticky situation here. I had a Pass Plus driving lesson yesterday (passed test in December with same instructor, this is my first time driving since then). Going round a roundabout I made a really dumb error and managed to scrape along the curb which has damaged the tyre and alloy.

We stopped to check the wheel and I made the stupid mistake of asking how much it would cost me.

He's since said he will pay for the tyre and I can buy the new alloy at £536! The option of refurbishing the tire would cost around £90 but would put him out of work for 4 days apparently.

Henoffered me me the damaged tyre so I can get it refurbed and sell it. But wants me to simply transfer the money for the wheel to his account instead of ordering it myself. I haven't seen a receipt yet.

I I do mostly trust this guy as I've been with him for a while but this is starting to seem sketchy. He says it's not covered in his insurance.

Do I/does he have a legal leg to stand on? Should I just suck it up and realise I made an error and would be a douche to make him pay?

Thanks in advance

Reply 1

adele456

It should be covered on his insurance as his insurance should include accidental damage! I wouldn't pay it and he is responsible for the car and to have the car covered with special leaner insurance aswell . Sounds like he just wants the money off you and its highly unlikely you'll get prosecuted for it.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 2

candylion5

OP

Thanks Adele, I would imagine you're probably right the only grey area I can see is that im technically not a learner as much as I am a student. I don't want my decision to be solely based on legal, I want there to be a moral basis to it too but also don't want to get ripped off! At very least I feel like I'd be within my rights to not pay for the wheel until I've seen a receipt or ask for the phone number for Audi so I can directly order the wheel myself, no?

Reply 3

adele456

I understand where your coming from, normally they'll go through the insurance and obviously he doesn't want to. Yeah wouldn't pay a penny until there was proof :smile:

Reply 4

kernow24

5

don't pay him a penny. unless you signed something to say you would be liable for any mishaps, then you aren't liable.

on a moral basis, you paid him for use of the car, this includes insurance on the vehicle, if you crash, cause injury to someone, damage the car or others property, the insurance will cover it.

he just doesn't want to go via his insurers, the excess is probably higher than a standard vehicle, and he will probably lose his no claims, but that's not your problem, its a cost of his business.

There's no being a 'douche' involved, morally and legally speaking you don't have to pay a single penny, even if you were liable by something you have signed, the extent of your liability would be to a value of the excess that his insurers charge.

Just say you're not paying for it, if he wants to pursue it further he's welcome to take you to court.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 5

Iqbal007

19

Original post by candylion5

Thanks Adele, I would imagine you're probably right the only grey area I can see is that im technically not a learner as much as I am a student. I don't want my decision to be solely based on legal, I want there to be a moral basis to it too but also don't want to get ripped off! At very least I feel like I'd be within my rights to not pay for the wheel until I've seen a receipt or ask for the phone number for Audi so I can directly order the wheel myself, no?

You do not pay for anything at all..............I think he's just trying to trick you out of your money.
£536 for a single new alloy, what an absolute rip off, that is just so illogical considering the cost. And £90 for "refurbishing" a tyre :rofl:

Let me just say do not pay him a penny and do not go back to him, in fact report him for that behaviour.

It isn't immoral to not pay him................the money you give him for your pass plus is supposed to cover your tuition, use of car, petrol, etc but also the insurance for accidents like the one you had.

Reply 6

Minionmum

15

Don't pay - you were paying for a lesson - so should be covered by his insurance.

Reply 7

Dreamweaver

10

Perhaps there may be a reason he is avoiding insurance e.g. losing NCD but that doesn't mean you should pay him. If it was something small like a wing mirror I wouldn't have any reservations. But the fact that he has asked you for such a large amount of money directly is suspicious; you have no legal/moral obligation to comply. Do not pay.

Reply 8

silverbolt

19

Original post by candylion5

Hi, I'm in a bit of a sticky situation here. I had a Pass Plus driving lesson yesterday (passed test in December with same instructor, this is my first time driving since then). Going round a roundabout I made a really dumb error and managed to scrape along the curb which has damaged the tyre and alloy.

We stopped to check the wheel and I made the stupid mistake of asking how much it would cost me.

He's since said he will pay for the tyre and I can buy the new alloy at £536! The option of refurbishing the tire would cost around £90 but would put him out of work for 4 days apparently.

Henoffered me me the damaged tyre so I can get it refurbed and sell it. But wants me to simply transfer the money for the wheel to his account instead of ordering it myself. I haven't seen a receipt yet.

I I do mostly trust this guy as I've been with him for a while but this is starting to seem sketchy. He says it's not covered in his insurance.

Do I/does he have a legal leg to stand on? Should I just suck it up and realise I made an error and would be a douche to make him pay?

Thanks in advance

you firstly tell him where to shove it and secondly tell him to sod off or youll inform his supervisors.

He pays insurance premiums for a reason. He pays them to fix his car when a LEARNER driver has a bump

Reply 9

Good bloke

19

Original post by candylion5

Thanks Adele, I would imagine you're probably right the only grey area I can see is that im technically not a learner as much as I am a student.

Your status as a driver is irrelevant. You are his client. His car is insured against damage incurred in the course of carrying out his services (and has to be, by law). By the very nature of those services, the client almost always causes the damage. He is trying it on and, in any event, almost certainly won't replace the wheel. A driving instructor who fits expensive alloys to his learner car is an idiot in any case.

Reply 10

Emma-Ashley

7

Original post by Good bloke

Your status as a driver is irrelevant. You are his client. His car is insured against damage incurred in the course of carrying out his services (and has to be, by law). By the very nature of those services, the client almost always causes the damage. He is trying it on and, in any event, almost certainly won't replace the wheel. A driving instructor who fits expensive alloys to his learner car is an idiot in any case.

I'm going to be a little pedantic...

Most instructor insurance has an excess which is often £500 or more. A fault prang is going to cost him. In addition, very often cars are leased and come with expensive alloys! No, we don't understand why and yes we should probably replace them with something cheap!

Reply 11

Sgt.Incontro

20

Original post by Emma-Ashley

I'm going to be a little pedantic...

Most instructor insurance has an excess which is often £500 or more. A fault prang is going to cost him. In addition, very often cars are leased and come with expensive alloys! No, we don't understand why and yes we should probably replace them with something cheap!

Boo hoo.

Driving instructors make loads of money, despite students bumping/scratching cars occasionally. Its the cost of doing business - and there is a word for it - it's called "expenses".

Plenty of base model new cars still come from factory with steel wheels, there is no excuse.

Reply 12

candylion5

OP

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. They all really helped to put my mind at ease. I explained to my instructor yesterday that I wouldn't be paying. He responded immediately with 'Ok.' A bit later he sent me a text telling me how much my pass plus was going to cost him an hour and followed thst with a sad face smiley. Clearly realised he was pulling a fast one hence backing down so easily but then still tried to make me feel guilty!

Reply 13

Emma-Ashley

7

Original post by Sgt.Incontro

Boo hoo.

Driving instructors make loads of money, despite students bumping/scratching cars occasionally. Its the cost of doing business - and there is a word for it - it's called "expenses".

Plenty of base model new cars still come from factory with steel wheels, there is no excuse.

Okay, so as we earn loads of money, how much did I earn after expenses in the last financial year? Assume I work 6 days a week including 3 evenings, every week. I lease my car. Have a guess.

p.s., I'm not complaining about the cost of doing business but it would be interesting to see if you can actually back up your comment...

Reply 14

Sgt.Incontro

20

Original post by Emma-Ashley

Okay, so as we earn loads of money, how much did I earn after expenses in the last financial year? Assume I work 6 days a week including 3 evenings, every week. I lease my car. Have a guess.

p.s., I'm not complaining about the cost of doing business but it would be interesting to see if you can actually back up your comment...

You might not earn much, but I know many instructors who do. Perhaps you need to optimize your expenses/costs/revenue in order to get better margins. :wink:

Reply 15

Emma-Ashley

7

Original post by Sgt.Incontro

You might not earn much, but I know many instructors who do. Perhaps you need to optimize your expenses/costs/revenue in order to get better margins. :wink:

How much? Bear in mind that I am an independent driving instructor working on my own. I'm glad to hear that there are many instructors who do but it would still be useful to know how much...

Reply 16

username1697607

3

Original post by candylion5

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. They all really helped to put my mind at ease. I explained to my instructor yesterday that I wouldn't be paying. He responded immediately with 'Ok.' A bit later he sent me a text telling me how much my pass plus was going to cost him an hour and followed thst with a sad face smiley. Clearly realised he was pulling a fast one hence backing down so easily but then still tried to make me feel guilty!

You did the right thing, he will probably only have it refurbished anyway, he won't be out of business as he should have a spare. I believe Audi's come with full size spare. Either way he has a wheel he can use for four days whilst it's being fixed!

Reply 17

studentLynch

12

Original post by candylion5

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. They all really helped to put my mind at ease. I explained to my instructor yesterday that I wouldn't be paying. He responded immediately with 'Ok.' A bit later he sent me a text telling me how much my pass plus was going to cost him an hour and followed thst with a sad face smiley. Clearly realised he was pulling a fast one hence backing down so easily but then still tried to make me feel guilty!

Sorry i was readying your thread, your instructor sounds so dodgy .... I'm so glad I'm done with driving instructors and had a good one. by the way pass plus is a waste of time get an old banger and get out there !!!

Reply 18

kernow24

5

Original post by Emma-Ashley

How much? Bear in mind that I am an independent driving instructor working on my own. I'm glad to hear that there are many instructors who do but it would still be useful to know how much...

lets say for the sake of argument you charge £20 an hour, say an average of 6 hours of lessons in a day, not really unreasonable, taking in to account busier and less busy days, travel time between clients, time for lunch etc etc, 4 clients doing 1.5 hours lessons a day isn't really that far fetched, no? so, say 36 hours, out of a possible 57 hour week (9 - 5 6 day week) and 9 hours for 3 evenings a week.

that would give an income of £37.5k not too shabby, say 5k for the car lease and insurance, im assuming you have one of the small hatchbacks, even being an instructor your insurance should be well below 1k a year, depending of course on the area and no claims and the like, then if you need to make a balloon payment to 'own' the car, your leasing costs will then reduce for a couple of years until you replace the car again and you have a car you could sell on for 5k yada yada yada

im guessing as an independent, your advertising costs are at a minimum, word of mouth, facebook, speculative calls from people who have seen you going around the local area teaching, Im assuming you don't advertise in some massive way, and the advertising you do is pretty much free, bar your time and say getting your car signs and the like done, a couple of grand a year? maybe a leaflet drop every so often, other things you 'need' for work like a phone etc

then your petrol, maintenance costs, depending on how your business is setup the tax / national insurance etc etc so lets say after all costs you get in your bank 22k a year, am I close? not a huge sum, but not to be sniffed at, but as with all self employed people when its actually broken down to a per hour rate for ALL the time you spend on the business, im sure its not far over the NMW, possibly a quid or two under :eek:

Would be interesting to know if am close to the figure, because there's so many variables, even down to where you're at regarding car ownership and the like and its assuming a fairly steady stream of customers year round which probably isn't the case, quiet a couple of weeks either side of xmas / new year, you no doubt have quiet times / busier times that tie in with school / college holidays, people 'coming of age' and the like, having a good run with people passing and few new customers etc etc of course you could have a couple of weeks where you have a single lesson a day, that will play havoc with the figures

of course I could be massively out, so if we take a third off the amount of hours you get paid for, so you drop down to 14-16k take home a year, which is probably nearer the mark but i'm a optimist and assume your business does well :tongue: