The Student Room Group

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Original post by Gridiron-Gangster
Not sure where they're heading with Miz but jeez what a fall from grace. This time last year he was WWE champion headlining WM and now he's dancing like a prat and being squashed by Brodus Clay.


Read somewhere he's going to appear in the Marine 3 soon, they're just letting him lose for a bit as a decent opponent for the new guys and then he'll come back strong. They use him for loads of media stuff so his future's safe.
Punk vs. Bryan was brilliant, as expected. The tag match and the 4-way were also good matches. I also thought the women's match was decent, though Layla did lapse in and out of selling the injury but at least they were given time to tell a story.

Parts of the Cena match were funny. Johnny's Booker impersonation was a highlight.
Original post by nonotrly
So wait, a Raw guy is challenging for the Smackdown title and a Smackdown guy is challenging for the Raw title.

And for the FIFTH PPV in a row, there's a more important match (the main event) than the title match?

What's the ****ing point?...


What do you expect? Cena is the only legit draw on the whole roster.
Reply 6303
Original post by Kenan and Kel
What do you expect? Cena is the only legit draw on the whole roster.


O_o

Is he even bringing in the most merchandise?

In the last few PPVs, you're saying people bought to watch Cena?

According to WWE, Cena is bigger than the WWE. That is not healthy.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by nonotrly
O_o

Is he even bringing in the most merchandise?

In the last few PPVs, you're saying people bought to watch Cena?

According to WWE, Cena is bigger than the WWE. That is not healthy.


I have to agree that Cena is probably the biggest star on the roster and the only one who can really compare to the great superstars of the past. Triple H and Taker are used sporadically these days, Jericho's comeback in all honesty hasn't been too great and as Lesnar's signed to limited number of appearances he'll be doing his appearing and disappearing act quite frequently.

CM Punk is becoming quite an endearing figure and I think he's also appealing to lot of older fans by use of the elbow move as a nod to Randy Savage. Yesterday was the one year anniversary of his death and I liked how he pointed to the sky before doing his elbow and the crowd chanted Randy Savage.

I was thinking in the last ten years so many older stars got a chance to return to the WWE and re-live some of their past glories like Hogan, Bret Hart, Flair, Piper, Ted Dibiase etc and it's a shame Randy Savage didn't get the same opportunity but that was more to do with the fact he had a falling out with McMahon (although McMahon fittingly paid tribute to him in an article in Time Magazine).

ATM Cena is the only one on the roster with true star quality i.e. someone who transcends the sport in the same vein as The Rock, Stone Cold and Hulk Hogan did. CM Punk is not even near that level yet and I'm not really sure if he's quite the sort of character to fit that mold....i.e. Punk is about the wrestling.

But let's be honest WWE are still the number one wrestling promo and when your nearest major rival is TNA that isn't difficult. I heard TNA just committed Austin Aries to another 3 year contract and I'll be surprised if he stays beyond that period. He's their star man and he's big fish in an incredibly small pond. It's like Lionel Messi playing for Rochdale FC.

WWE should perhaps go back to the past days of trying to poach their rivals biggest stars and AA would imo be a massive coup. I'm sure fans would love to see him take on the likes Cena, Punk, Bryan and Orton. WWE missed out on Sting but I hope they can do with AA what they couldn't with Sting.

Strangely enough I like what they're doing with Albert on his return re: The Lord Tensai gimmick and in the brief period he's been back he's had more of a push than he ever did during his whole time as Prince Albert. Seeing as Mark Henry will be out of action for quite some time perhaps he can fill in the "big man" vacancy?
Reply 6305
I really think Cena is just an exercise of Vince's real life ethos that HE is every guy on the roster, amd that he can create a star out of anyone he chooses (a.k.a. "I created Hulkamania"). Cena already had a good fan-catching gimmick playing the wigger. After all, a worrying amount of kids are wiggers and chavs, so they easily identified with Cena and also saw him as the coolest of cool.

Also we have to admit that WWE and wrestling in general has always been a kid's thing. Sure plenty of adults can like, and kids who grow into adults can not 'grow out of it' and still like it, but from the days when you brought your kid to your local NWA show to watching the bright lights and fighting of the TV shows, it's been mainly for the boys.

So that combined with Cena's dedication to working outside the ring, Vince saw that and saw that kids were buying all his stuff too. So Vince made him a star, he gave him huge title runs, got him in a few films, while Cena kept doing the extra-curricular stuff.

That he couldn't pump up a crowd on the mic or in the ring, that he couldn't develop his moveset or psychology was irrelevant, because he'd still get the title, and thus we'd be TOLD he's the biggest guy around, rather than showing me why.
Original post by nonotrly
O_o

Is he even bringing in the most merchandise?

In the last few PPVs, you're saying people bought to watch Cena?

According to WWE, Cena is bigger than the WWE. That is not healthy.


The only time Cena has been beaten in merchandise over the past 7 years, was Punk while he was hot last Summer.

I don't think you realise how big Cena is. Obviously no superstar is bigger than the WWE, but Cena has and still does carry the WWE. If you check the ratings and viewership breakdowns of every Raw, it's always increasing when John Cena is involved. He is the only full-time legit draw in the WWE.
Original post by nonotrly
I really think Cena is just an exercise of Vince's real life ethos that HE is every guy on the roster, amd that he can create a star out of anyone he chooses (a.k.a. "I created Hulkamania"). Cena already had a good fan-catching gimmick playing the wigger. After all, a worrying amount of kids are wiggers and chavs, so they easily identified with Cena and also saw him as the coolest of cool.

Also we have to admit that WWE and wrestling in general has always been a kid's thing. Sure plenty of adults can like, and kids who grow into adults can not 'grow out of it' and still like it, but from the days when you brought your kid to your local NWA show to watching the bright lights and fighting of the TV shows, it's been mainly for the boys.

So that combined with Cena's dedication to working outside the ring, Vince saw that and saw that kids were buying all his stuff too. So Vince made him a star, he gave him huge title runs, got him in a few films, while Cena kept doing the extra-curricular stuff.

That he couldn't pump up a crowd on the mic or in the ring, that he couldn't develop his moveset or psychology was irrelevant, because he'd still get the title, and thus we'd be TOLD he's the biggest guy around, rather than showing me why.


Wrestling has always been a family business but of course one of their key audiences is children/young people. I mean I started watching WWF when I was a child and I'd have been peeved if someone told me I couldn't watch it because I was a kid. Kids buy merchandise and as you said grow up and whilst not into it hardcore will certainly remain lifelong fans so I have no qualms about WWE targeting kids primarily but in recent weeks/months it has begun to get slightly edgier with the HIAC match at WM, Cena v Lesnar, Jericho and Punk alcohol and drug references and hitting him with a bottle and drenching him with JDs......I'm not sure you'd see that on a typical kids show.

We have to accept the Attitude era as great as it was, is no long gone and tbh it should remain in the past. Wrestling should always move forward. Frankly I think WWE as a whole is better now than it ever was, the amount of programming is immense and it's great they have Vintage Collection annd NXT to develop up and coming talent. WWE have really taken to Facebook/Twitter/You tube like ducks to water and has really made it a more interactive experience for fans.

WWE are also doing more international touring to a wider number of destinations. Before they'd only come once a year to the UK to just the one venue to do a random UK only PPV which 99% of the time was a pile of BS. Now they actually film episodes of RAW and Smackdown here...I'd have cried out loud for that back in 1999.

Also look at the number of house shows they do in the UK when they do come I mean they even play in places like Aberdeen and Butlin's in Minehead. Altogether WWE must do about 20 shows in the UK every year. And then there's the touring everywhere else going to places like India, Honduras, Mexico, Japan, Italy etc.

As an international brand WWE is bigger than it was say ten years ago. As entertainment value....maybe not so much but given the inroads they've made to branch out internationally they're certainly in good shape and it won't be long before the next Stone Cold, or HBK comes along.
Original post by Gridiron-Gangster
Wrestling has always been a family business but of course one of their key audiences is children/young people. I mean I started watching WWF when I was a child and I'd have been peeved if someone told me I couldn't watch it because I was a kid. Kids buy merchandise and as you said grow up and whilst not into it hardcore will certainly remain lifelong fans so I have no qualms about WWE targeting kids primarily but in recent weeks/months it has begun to get slightly edgier with the HIAC match at WM, Cena v Lesnar, Jericho and Punk alcohol and drug references and hitting him with a bottle and drenching him with JDs......I'm not sure you'd see that on a typical kids show.

We have to accept the Attitude era as great as it was, is no long gone and tbh it should remain in the past. Wrestling should always move forward. Frankly I think WWE as a whole is better now than it ever was, the amount of programming is immense and it's great they have Vintage Collection annd NXT to develop up and coming talent. WWE have really taken to Facebook/Twitter/You tube like ducks to water and has really made it a more interactive experience for fans.

WWE are also doing more international touring to a wider number of destinations. Before they'd only come once a year to the UK to just the one venue to do a random UK only PPV which 99% of the time was a pile of BS. Now they actually film episodes of RAW and Smackdown here...I'd have cried out loud for that back in 1999.

Also look at the number of house shows they do in the UK when they do come I mean they even play in places like Aberdeen and Butlin's in Minehead. Altogether WWE must do about 20 shows in the UK every year. And then there's the touring everywhere else going to places like India, Honduras, Mexico, Japan, Italy etc.

As an international brand WWE is bigger than it was say ten years ago. As entertainment value....maybe not so much but given the inroads they've made to branch out internationally they're certainly in good shape and it won't be long before the next Stone Cold, or HBK comes along.


One thing you missed out on, the quality of matches.

We've been spoilt with some great matches this year.

Taker HHH
Punk Jericho twice!
Rocky Cena
Punk Bryan
Lesnar Cena
Bryan Sheamus (ER)

Heck even on Superstars, they gave Ziggler and Kofi 15 minutes and they tore the house down.

(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Kenan and Kel
One thing you missed out on, the quality of matches.

We've been spoilt with some great matches this year.

Taker HHH
Punk Jericho twice!
Rocky Cena
Punk Bryan
Lesnar Cena

Heck even on Superstars, they gave Ziggler and Kofi 15 minutes and they tore the house down.



I thought the ppv on the whole was ok which is surprising for these filler ppvs en route to the big ones like Summer Slam etc.
Reply 6310
Original post by Kenan and Kel
The only time Cena has been beaten in merchandise over the past 7 years, was Punk while he was hot last Summer.

I don't think you realise how big Cena is. Obviously no superstar is bigger than the WWE, but Cena has and still does carry the WWE. If you check the ratings and viewership breakdowns of every Raw, it's always increasing when John Cena is involved. He is the only full-time legit draw in the WWE.


Wasn't Orton beating him too until he got punted to Smackdown to replace Edge and stop stealing Cena's mojo?

I think people over-estimate how big Cena is. A lot of non-wrestling fans don't know who John Cena is, it takes more than appearing on the odd comedy show, so it's wrong to compare him with Hogan, Rock and Savage since regular people knew who they were - they knew who they were, how they looked, how they sounded and how they acted. At most they'll know the name John Cena and maybe glimpsed his face once by accident.

Original post by Kenan and Kel
One thing you missed out on, the quality of matches.

We've been spoilt with some great matches this year.

Taker HHH
Punk Jericho twice!
Rocky Cena
Punk Bryan
Lesnar Cena
Bryan Sheamus (ER)

Heck even on Superstars, they gave Ziggler and Kofi 15 minutes and they tore the house down.



I'd say that's relatively speaking, comparing it to a few years ago. When watching Attitude Era back, there's a few things that stick out:

1) About half the card was heel vs heel matches.

2) TV matches could be as short as matches today, but even 6-man tag matches that lasted one minute told a story and advanced a feud and the wrestlers involved.

3) The roster was a lot bigger (really there's pretty much 15 wrestlers to pick from for each TV show) and there were several titles each with their own meaning, history and vibe, so it didn't get stale much and there's always the chance to try something new or get someone else involved in a feud to mix things up or go a new direction. Even could pit a main eventer up with a light-heavyweight or midcarder and it could get the crowd almost as excited as a Rock vs Whoever main event (just watched Triple H vs Taka Michinoku in a world heavyweight title match actually).

You've named 7 matches there and, while there may be a few more that could be named (and a few taken away - Cena/Rocky was boring as hell until the last 5 minutes), that just shows what a real shame it is to see the product as it is today.
Original post by nonotrly
Wasn't Orton beating him too until he got punted to Smackdown to replace Edge and stop stealing Cena's mojo?

I think people over-estimate how big Cena is. A lot of non-wrestling fans don't know who John Cena is, it takes more than appearing on the odd comedy show, so it's wrong to compare him with Hogan, Rock and Savage since regular people knew who they were - they knew who they were, how they looked, how they sounded and how they acted. At most they'll know the name John Cena and maybe glimpsed his face once by accident.



Orton never came close to Cena in merchandise sales.

Everyone knows that he's not as big as Hogan, Austin or Rocky, but he's still the biggest draw of his era by a mile. John Cena is the first guy that comes to mind if you asked a normal person if they know anyone in WWE currently, after Rocky, but he doesn't count. I honestly don't think you realise how big he is for WWE.
Original post by Kenan and Kel
Orton never came close to Cena in merchandise sales.

Everyone knows that he's not as big as Hogan, Austin or Rocky, but he's still the biggest draw of his era by a mile. John Cena is the first guy that comes to mind if you asked a normal person if they know anyone in WWE currently, after Rocky, but he doesn't count. I honestly don't think you realise how big he is for WWE.


I'd disagree with him not being as big as those 3. Well he isn't yet but he's in their league and he's the only star on the roster with the exception of Triple H andd Undertaker who can be considered truly a superstar. I'd say he's more popular with a wider range of fans than say Austin was. His popularitty with kids etc is more reminiscent of Hogan's appeal in the 80s and 90s.
Reply 6313
Original post by Kenan and Kel
John Cena is the first guy that comes to mind if you asked a normal person if they know anyone in WWE currently, after Rocky, but he doesn't count. I honestly don't think you realise how big he is for WWE.


It's easy to forget that we travel in circles and speak more regularly with like-minded people. 'Normal' people really have never heard of John Cena.
It depends on who one asks. If I were to ask someone fairly young, then they'd probably say Cena. If I were to ask people above the age of 20, and even people who hardly ever watch wrestling, they'd most likely mention 'Oh it's that thing that hulk hogan used to do isn't it?' It's happen a lot.
Yeah, some old people never move on. Whenever a little fight flares up in sport all the commentators still say, "It's like watching WWF". I've never heard one of them say WWE.
But if you were to ask normal people to name someone who is a current full-time wrestler in WWE, John Cena would be mentioned x times more than anyone else.
Reply 6317
Original post by Kenan and Kel
But if you were to ask normal people to name someone who is a current full-time wrestler in WWE, John Cena would be mentioned x times more than anyone else.


He's the tallest midget.
Reply 6318
As if the whiff of ratings from Cenaustin V McMaurinitis weren't enough, now we've got a Big Show feud! Oh boy!

Big Show needs to go over. Normally this would make no sense at all, but Big Show, like nearly all big guys, is damaged. WWE don't have a clue what to do with big guys after their debuts - Khali, Big Show, Kane, Umaga. They become jobbers, then after a couple of years they reboot him as a monster heel working for the boss, then he gets beaten, then might get a midcard feud to put another face over, then back to squashes and jobbing.

So yeah, the first one or two times this big mofo becomes a surprise tag partner or an evil ally, it's massive, how will the babyface get past this immovable object? When the same guy's done it 10 times, it's just a case of "oh it's Big Show, he's crap, Cena will kick his ass easily". Or "surprise tag team partner for Vince? 50 bucks it's Umaga".
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 6319
Why is John Cena always on every single ppv, now against big show at no way out.i am soo tired of watching him wrestle with his 5 moves lol

i much rather see Hornswoggle in action on ppv

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