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The Liverpool FC Thread VII
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I don't think there should be a CL place for the FA Cup winners. I know it gets mooted every season as a way of improving the FA Cup but I really don't think it is a deserving reward when you could fluke your way through every round against completely non teams.
Original post by Darth Vader 7
FA cup is disappointing when you don't have CL qualification to go with it.
No it's not. It's disappointing not to get CL but to say winning the FA cup would be a disappointment is just strange
The two are not even mutually exclusive. This either/or thing is just so puzzling. It's not like to win the FA cup you forfiet top4 or to finish in the top4 you have to forfiet cup runs. You don't. And big teams should for any credit, be doing both. I suppose you'd say winning the Champions League is a disappointment too if the winner didn't get top4 and wasn't allowed to compete for next years.
Wierd.
I think the only reason finishing in top4 for Liverpool is probably more important is because we've been out of it for a couple of seasons. But if Chelsea miss out on top4 (it will only be a slim margin) and then don't win the CL. The fact that they won a piece of silverware and got to another final (that being the Champions League final) would render their season 100x better than Arsenals. Even if they haven't got champions league football for next season.
Original post by Pn94
You're not happy that Chelsea won the FA cup?
No, we've still had a terrible season, we're not guaranteed CL next season and we need the CL money for fair play rules. If we win the CL however that'll make up for it as we get in the CL next season, shows us to be the best team in europe and we had the hardest cup run. Plus di matteo has done a great job, we wouldn't be in two cup finals and would probably be battling with you guys for 7th place had villas boas still been manager.
In terms of march onwards we've been great, but in terms of a season as a whole, we've been terrible. when portsmouth won the FA cup and came 8th it's an achievement to them, but if we win the FA cup and come 6th it's not an achievement.
We had an easy run until the semi final onwards for the FA cup and we were favourites once city and united crashed out. So no I'm not happy, we have a trophy in the cabinet and can brag about the whole 4 FA cups in 6 years thing, but we've still had a terrible season. We have an ageing squad, but as di matteo has shown we can still challenge on all fronts with our squad and can be consistent in the league, which we haven't been this season.
Original post by Mess.
I don't think there should be a CL place for the FA Cup winners. I know it gets mooted every season as a way of improving the FA Cup but I really don't think it is a deserving reward when you could fluke your way through every round against completely non teams.
It's really not, whoever gets fourth is more deserving because you've proved yourself over 38 games whereas as you say, you can fluke an FA cup win. Would Chelsea be more deserving of a CL place when they only really faced competent competition by the semi finals when Newcastle have been solid all season? It wouldn't really make any sense tbh.
Original post by Darth Vader 7
FA cup is disappointing when you don't have CL qualification to go with it.
Thank you.
Original post by Mess.
I think anyone who thinks that isn't going to happen is beyond deluded. That sort of debt is completely acceptable and expected in my opinion. I would only accept a massive debt if we were to move to a new stadium though. Anfield is not really worth it due to the restricted views, cramped seating in the Kop (the seating there is smaller than the rest of the ground, thus the seats are ~£5 cheaper) and not really being able to expand the corporate.
I have seen a lot of people talking about the stadium naming rights as well but I really don't see where we would get a company to be able to front the massive amount of money to us.
I have seen a lot of people talking about the stadium naming rights as well but I really don't see where we would get a company to be able to front the massive amount of money to us.
Yeah, productive debt is good. Its why the Glazers are despised at Utd, the debt is not from building a squad or improving facilities, its from their purchase.
You wouldn't pay for the stadium up-front, it'd be phased over the stages of the build so even a standard sponsorship would help.
Original post by Pn94
We won't be able to do anything about the stadium issue until we improve on the pitch anyway. The naming rights deal is imperative in ensuring a decision is made and with our current predicament, I can understand why sponsors would be hesitant.
You've still got massive global appeal, with better commercial income than everyone but Utd. Yous should be touring Asia more, to keep that fanbase in place during the leaner years.
Just thought I'd say I thought Liverpool's attitude was class today and it's changed my opinion of them. We've not been the best of friends in the past but the game was quality between two very even teams that we were lucky to win in the end. I reckon Carroll will come good next season based on that performance and Downing looked quality too.
Original post by jam277
No, we've still had a terrible season, we're not guaranteed CL next season and we need the CL money for fair play rules. If we win the CL however that'll make up for it as we get in the CL next season, shows us to be the best team in europe and we had the hardest cup run. Plus di matteo has done a great job, we wouldn't be in two cup finals and would probably be battling with you guys for 7th place had villas boas still been manager.
In terms of march onwards we've been great, but in terms of a season as a whole, we've been terrible. when portsmouth won the FA cup and came 8th it's an achievement to them, but if we win the FA cup and come 6th it's not an achievement.
We had an easy run until the semi final onwards for the FA cup and we were favourites once city and united crashed out. So no I'm not happy, we have a trophy in the cabinet and can brag about the whole 4 FA cups in 6 years thing, but we've still had a terrible season. We have an ageing squad, but as di matteo has shown we can still challenge on all fronts with our squad and can be consistent in the league, which we haven't been this season.
In terms of march onwards we've been great, but in terms of a season as a whole, we've been terrible. when portsmouth won the FA cup and came 8th it's an achievement to them, but if we win the FA cup and come 6th it's not an achievement.
We had an easy run until the semi final onwards for the FA cup and we were favourites once city and united crashed out. So no I'm not happy, we have a trophy in the cabinet and can brag about the whole 4 FA cups in 6 years thing, but we've still had a terrible season. We have an ageing squad, but as di matteo has shown we can still challenge on all fronts with our squad and can be consistent in the league, which we haven't been this season.
It's an achievement to win the FA cup. For Chelsea as it was for Portsmouth. It's not an achievement for Chelsea to come 6th as you want top 4. There is no need for EITHER/OR. You should be proud of your team and enjoy the moment.
Also, winning the Champions League does not show Chelsea to be the best team in Europe. Paha. Far from it.
Original post by Mess.
I don't think there should be a CL place for the FA Cup winners. I know it gets mooted every season as a way of improving the FA Cup but I really don't think it is a deserving reward when you could fluke your way through every round against completely non teams.
agreed. That would mean that portsmouth a couple of seasons ago would be in CL. They would soon crash out which means England's ECI rankings would go down, I think, which could mean that we have less CL spots.
In the FA cup, you could face lower league sides, and hope that all the big sides crash out. Whilst in the league, you'll face everyone in that league home and away (in many leagues), so you would face a big side twice. Of course you hope that the other sides competing for top 4 would lose points, but they can bounce back, whilst in knockout cup matches, they can't
Original post by lifeshard
No it's not. It's disappointing not to get CL but to say winning the FA cup would be a disappointment is just strange The two are not even mutually exclusive. This either/or thing is just so puzzling. It's not like to win the FA cup you forfiet top4 or to finish in the top4 you have to forfiet cup runs. You don't. And big teams should for any credit, be doing both.
I suppose you'd say winning the Champions League is a disappointment too if the winner didn't get top4 and wasn't allowed to compete for next years.
Wierd.
I think the only reason finishing in top4 for Liverpool is probably more important is because we've been out of it for a couple of seasons. But if Chelsea miss out on top4 (it will only be a slim margin) and then don't win the CL. The fact that they won a piece of silverware and got to another final (that being the Champions League final) would render their season 100x better than Arsenals. Even if they haven't got champions league football for next season.
The two are not even mutually exclusive. This either/or thing is just so puzzling. It's not like to win the FA cup you forfiet top4 or to finish in the top4 you have to forfiet cup runs. You don't. And big teams should for any credit, be doing both. I suppose you'd say winning the Champions League is a disappointment too if the winner didn't get top4 and wasn't allowed to compete for next years.
Wierd.
I think the only reason finishing in top4 for Liverpool is probably more important is because we've been out of it for a couple of seasons. But if Chelsea miss out on top4 (it will only be a slim margin) and then don't win the CL. The fact that they won a piece of silverware and got to another final (that being the Champions League final) would render their season 100x better than Arsenals. Even if they haven't got champions league football for next season.
I know the two aren't mutually exclusive. That's my ****ing point
. To say your season has been 'successful' (for a big club) you must qualify for the CL and win a some sort of silverware.
It is sufficient (by meaning that it's not good but neither bad) to be in the top 4.
However, it is insufficient to win any trophy without qualifying for the CL. Since winning the league and winning the CL allow you a safe passage into the CL, those trophies are redundant in this argument. However, when considering the FA cup and Carling cup, they are not as good as getting CL qualification. Simple.
They are only acceptable to a big club when they are already in the top 4. Anything less than that personally is a unsuccessful season.
I thought this point would make complete sense to a Liverpool fan. Clearly not. It's not like you're a small club where it would make sense to grab onto any trophies you can get, you're clearly not but some of you have a 'small team' mentality.
Original post by So Instinct
Did you tell us so?
Yes I did. Check back if you like.
Original post by Darth Vader 7
I know the two aren't mutually exclusive. That's my ****ing point .
To say your season has been 'successful' (for a big club) you must qualify for the CL and win a some sort of silverware.
It is sufficient (by meaning that it's not good but neither bad) to be in the top 4.
However, it is insufficient to win any trophy without qualifying for the CL. Since winning the league and winning the CL allow you a safe passage into the CL, those trophies are redundant in this argument. However, when considering the FA cup and Carling cup, they are not as good as getting CL qualification. Simple.
They are only acceptable to a big club when they are already in the top 4. Anything less than that personally is a unsuccessful season.
I thought this point would make complete sense to a Liverpool fan. Clearly not. It's not like you're a small club where it would make sense to grab onto any trophies you can get, you're clearly not but some of you have a 'small team' mentality.
. To say your season has been 'successful' (for a big club) you must qualify for the CL and win a some sort of silverware.
It is sufficient (by meaning that it's not good but neither bad) to be in the top 4.
However, it is insufficient to win any trophy without qualifying for the CL. Since winning the league and winning the CL allow you a safe passage into the CL, those trophies are redundant in this argument. However, when considering the FA cup and Carling cup, they are not as good as getting CL qualification. Simple.
They are only acceptable to a big club when they are already in the top 4. Anything less than that personally is a unsuccessful season.
I thought this point would make complete sense to a Liverpool fan. Clearly not. It's not like you're a small club where it would make sense to grab onto any trophies you can get, you're clearly not but some of you have a 'small team' mentality.
I was just saying that I do not get it when people say ''would you rather win a trophy or finish in the top4?" when the two are not reliant on eachother!
If we had won the FA cup i'd still be delighted. I'd just never be unhappy with a trophy. I don't get people that say ''I'm not happy we won the FA cup because we're not in top4". You should be saying ''I'm happy we won the FA cup but not happy we didn't qualify for top4". Simple as that.
It implies that you think finishing in the top4 and qualifying for the Champions League is the be all end all of football when your A FAN. Not a director of football or finances. A fan! A gooner! You want to watch your captain climb them steps and lift the trophy! You can't ever claim to be unhappy about that. That's what football IS.
There are teams that are consistently in CL year in year out, albiet usually from the lesser leagues but you also get the Valencias but they don't win anything.
I don't have a small club mentality. I just recognize the club is struggling. It won't be considered ''not struggling'' untill we are contending for the title once more. It is a testament to how big a club Liverpool is that we could have ended this year with a cup double and a lot would still consider it a failure.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Kevmeister
You've still got massive global appeal, with better commercial income than everyone but Utd. Yous should be touring Asia more, to keep that fanbase in place during the leaner years.
You've still got massive global appeal, with better commercial income than everyone but Utd. Yous should be touring Asia more, to keep that fanbase in place during the leaner years.
Yeah but being in the top 4 would make us a lot more attractive to potential sponsors.
Hmm, I was impressed by our Asian fanbase last year. I think 70k turned out to watch us train in Malaysia. But we're touring the US this year. Makes sense to try and tap into the market over there what with our owners etc.
Original post by Pn94
Yeah but being in the top 4 would make us a lot more attractive to potential sponsors.
Hmm, I was impressed by our Asian fanbase last year. I think 70k turned out to watch us train in Malaysia. But we're touring the US this year. Makes sense to try and tap into the market over there what with our owners etc.
Hmm, I was impressed by our Asian fanbase last year. I think 70k turned out to watch us train in Malaysia. But we're touring the US this year. Makes sense to try and tap into the market over there what with our owners etc.
I honestly think we'll be trying to sign Clint Dempsey purely for commercial reasons because he's considered "Americas best player". The owners seem to be obsessed with generating commercial revenue in the US when you think about the selling of shares to Lebron James, the cameo on American Idol, the kit deal with an American brand, the pre season tour of North America and the documentary series airing on Fox.
I don't want him though. Feels like it would be setting ourselves up for disappointment.
Original post by lifeshard
It's an achievement to win the FA cup. For Chelsea as it was for Portsmouth. It's not an achievement for Chelsea to come 6th as you want top 4. There is no need for EITHER/OR. You should be proud of your team and enjoy the moment.
Also, winning the Champions League does not show Chelsea to be the best team in Europe. Paha. Far from it.
Also, winning the Champions League does not show Chelsea to be the best team in Europe. Paha. Far from it.
Yeah, enjoy the moment, like you guys are enjoying winning a league cup this season.
for this to be called a successful season is papering over the cracks, same for you guys.I should be proud if my team got relegated too and won the league cup like birmingham did too. There is a difference, we beat the best sides in europe over two legs in every round until the final. Get the second hardest group stage, get the second hardest second seed and face the best team in the world and beat them over two legs.
We faced championship sides/soon to be a championship side until the semi final, we then faced a tottenham team full of fatigue who've crashed since harry was thinking about the england job and faced a liverpool team that are 8th in the league and had a terrible season by their standards and todays game epitomized all your problems. You play terrible in the first half and step up in the last 30 mins. What a great FA cup. Would rather face bayern and win the CL in all honesty.
Who is the best team in europe this season then? Real madrid, barca, bayern? 2 of the teams are second in their league while the 3rd only have a league title to show for such a great season. We have just as much of a claim than they do if we win the CL. We'll be in the CL next season too if we win it and have the joy of beating the best teams in europe on the way.
Original post by Darth Vader 7
I know the two aren't mutually exclusive. That's my ****ing point .
To say your season has been 'successful' (for a big club) you must qualify for the CL and win a some sort of silverware.
It is sufficient (by meaning that it's not good but neither bad) to be in the top 4.
However, it is insufficient to win any trophy without qualifying for the CL. Since winning the league and winning the CL allow you a safe passage into the CL, those trophies are redundant in this argument. However, when considering the FA cup and Carling cup, they are not as good as getting CL qualification. Simple.
They are only acceptable to a big club when they are already in the top 4. Anything less than that personally is a unsuccessful season.
I thought this point would make complete sense to a Liverpool fan. Clearly not. It's not like you're a small club where it would make sense to grab onto any trophies you can get, you're clearly not but some of you have a 'small team' mentality.
. To say your season has been 'successful' (for a big club) you must qualify for the CL and win a some sort of silverware.
It is sufficient (by meaning that it's not good but neither bad) to be in the top 4.
However, it is insufficient to win any trophy without qualifying for the CL. Since winning the league and winning the CL allow you a safe passage into the CL, those trophies are redundant in this argument. However, when considering the FA cup and Carling cup, they are not as good as getting CL qualification. Simple.
They are only acceptable to a big club when they are already in the top 4. Anything less than that personally is a unsuccessful season.
I thought this point would make complete sense to a Liverpool fan. Clearly not. It's not like you're a small club where it would make sense to grab onto any trophies you can get, you're clearly not but some of you have a 'small team' mentality.
Thank ****. The sooner liverpool fans realize this, the quicker they realize why half the teams in the prem find them a laughing stock this season. I want to face the biggest teams in europe, the barcelona's, the bayerns, the madrids and dortmunds.
I don't want to be playing sporting lisbon on a thursday night and I sure as **** don't want to play in england and not be in europe. Although I don't know which one is worse for a big club like chelsea/arsenal/united/city, being in the europa league or not being in europe at all...does anyone know the finances of being in the europa league, I know you get 20 million for the CL but what about europa league?
Original post by lifeshard
I honestly think we'll be trying to sign Clint Dempsey purely for commercial reasons because he's considered "Americas best player". The owners seem to be obsessed with generating commercial revenue in the US when you think about the selling of shares to Lebron James, the cameo on American Idol, the kit deal with an American brand, the pre season tour of North America and the documentary series airing on Fox.
I don't want him though. Feels like it would be setting ourselves up for disappointment.
I don't want him though. Feels like it would be setting ourselves up for disappointment.
Tbf he'd be a decent signing for £10m or under. A good replacement for Kuyt and I believe he's scored around 20 goals this season? As long as he's not our main signing and we're not relying on him massively then I'd have him, especially when you factor in the added commercial value.
The big question now is what will happen with Dalglish.
Original post by jam277
Thank ****. The sooner liverpool fans realize this, the quicker they realize why half the teams in the prem find them a laughing stock this season. I want to face the biggest teams in europe, the barcelona's, the bayerns, the madrids and dortmunds.
I don't want to be playing sporting lisbon on a thursday night and I sure as **** don't want to play in england and not be in europe. Although I don't know which one is worse for a big club like chelsea/arsenal/united/city, being in the europa league or not being in europe at all...does anyone know the finances of being in the europa league, I know you get 20 million for the CL but what about europa league?
I don't want to be playing sporting lisbon on a thursday night and I sure as **** don't want to play in england and not be in europe. Although I don't know which one is worse for a big club like chelsea/arsenal/united/city, being in the europa league or not being in europe at all...does anyone know the finances of being in the europa league, I know you get 20 million for the CL but what about europa league?
Winners of the CL get up to £30m or so. EL gets £6.5m, so you're looking at 20% of the revenue or an 80% drop from the CL.
Original post by Pn94
The big question now is what will happen with Dalglish.
I think he should be sacked in all honesty. The FA cup would have given him more time though, but that's obviously not what FSG wanted this season, they wanted a good run in the league and a CL spot/top 4 with possibly a league cup on the way. That would have been a great season for liverpool.
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