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Is it true you can BUY your way into Oxford?

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Original post by Caedus
Three words: Prince F***ing Charles

Left Eton with two A levels in History and French and gained entry into Cambridge despite only attaining B and C grades.


In 1967, yes. It was very different back then. Oxbridge didn't have AAA entrance requirements in the '60s anyway - it's a fairly recent phenomenon.
Original post by Caedus
Three words: Prince F***ing Charles

Left Eton with two A levels in History and French and gained entry into Cambridge despite only attaining B and C grades.


Back when a B grade at A level was very good....

And Cambridge used an entrance exam to determine who would get a place...

My grandfather went to Oxford and got BBC at A level, he also said many of his classmates had similar grades. AAA was rare, not the norm among Oxbridge students as it is now.
Reply 222
Avatar for Colmans
Colmans
11
Original post by Caedus
Three words: Prince F***ing Charles

Left Eton with two A levels in History and French and gained entry into Cambridge despite only attaining B and C grades.


He didn't go to Eton.
Original post by fudgesundae
Back when a B grade at A level was very good....

And Cambridge used an entrance exam to determine who would get a place...

My grandfather went to Oxford and got BBC at A level, he also said many of his classmates had similar grades. AAA was rare, not the norm among Oxbridge students as it is now.


True, my father went to Oxford in the 70's and he had got AAA at A level, being one of only about 5 people in the whole of the North West of England to do so.
Reply 224
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Caedus
15
Original post by Colmans
He didn't go to Eton.


Ah yes, it was Gordonstoun, silly me.

I'm rather startled at the rate grade inflation has eroded the value of our education system; it's quite obvious that students haven't grown empirically cleverer over the past century.
It's incredibly naive to assume that this sort of stuff doesn't happen
Original post by zippyRN
students outside the home / EU places cap have all ways been able to buy their way into UK universities.



I cannot agree with the statement.
I'm a Chinese student, studying A-level in the UK. I got an offer from Oxford this year.
But I didn't buy the place. All the Chinese students who I know, some studying in Oxford, some applying or going to apply and some rejected, never thought of buying the place.
Reply 227
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migeon
Original post by la-dauphine
In 1967, yes. It was very different back then. Oxbridge didn't have AAA entrance requirements in the '60s anyway - it's a fairly recent phenomenon.


and so is grade inflation LOL (I mean a recent phenomenon... )
Original post by migeon
and so is grade inflation LOL (I mean a recent phenomenon... )


I'm not totally convinced about the whole grade inflation thing. Some subjects have become less work-intensive, and obviously there's coursework as a safety net for exams, but I've spoken to people who took exams 40 years ago and who agree that the concepts students have to grapple with now are no easier - sometimes more complex - than in their schooldays. The reason why Oxbridge stopped giving out really low offers was because schools were complaining that their students weren't doing any work for the rest of the year and of course as competition for places increased the entry requirements crept up as a kind of filter.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 229
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lostlife
Original post by aakashsaif
Personally think it's possible........... case in point Bilawal Bhutto, son of former PM of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto. His Grandfather, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto(another former PM) and his mother both have gone to Oxford for studies and lo and behold, now he himself is at Oxford too...... is it just me or is that too much of a co-incidence. I know people will doubt me saying that it's possible he got in on merit but the fact is there is a rich history of son's and daughter's of Pakistani politicians getting into top universities of the world in exchange for some 'donations'.


That's so true, Even his sisters went to Oxford.

Ofcourse you can buy your way into top universities. If anyone has watched the movie based on Bush's life, you will know that he was a dumb ass guy...but his father, Bush senior, used his contacts and got Bush junior into good university in USA.
Reply 230
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lostlife
Original post by fudgesundae
Zulfiqar Ali already had a BA from Berkeley before he entered Oxford, so he had credentials.

Benazir Bhutto completed her O levels at 15, went to Harvard, then went to Oxford, she was also president of the Oxford Union. Seems pretty clever to me...

Is it so strange that Bilawal would also be intelligent enough to get into Oxford looking at some of his family members?

What people don't realise is that sometimes rich and powerful people are rich and powerful because they are very intelligent people.




They are rich so can afford the best tuition and preparation in the world.


You must be a PPP voter I believe.

Rich and powerfull poeple in the indian sub continent aren't intelligent but thugs and gangsters, most of them.

If Mr. Zulfiqar Ali was soooo intelligent, how come he divided Pakistan into two nations? Pakistan and Bangladesh?

Bilawal being intelligent? at the same time you want us to look at his family members...ever thought about his father?

Anyways, every intellectuel person would agree that most politicians in Pakistan buy their way into top universities across the globe.
Reply 231
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astro67
10
Original post by la-dauphine
I'm not totally convinced about the whole grade inflation thing. Some subjects have become less work-intensive, and obviously there's coursework as a safety net for exams, but I've spoken to people who took exams 40 years ago and who agree that the concepts students have to grapple with now are no easier - sometimes more complex - than in their schooldays. The reason why Oxbridge stopped giving out really low offers was because schools were complaining that their students weren't doing any work for the rest of the year and of course as competition for places increased the entry requirements crept up as a kind of filter.


Much depends on how you define the term 'grade inflation'. The increase over time in the fraction of people taking A-levels who get the top grades is simply an observed fact and not subject to debate. In response to that, pretty much all Universities have raised their standard offers over the years. In that sense grade inflation is unarguable but this is not a judgement on the quality of candidates or A-level rigour - it's simply a pragmatic, practical response, especially in those Universities that use the offer grade as their primary mechanism for rationing access to the limited places on their courses. Faced with this, even if Oxford felt that the information they had from the entrance exam or subsequently aptitude tests plus submitted written work plus interview were sufficient to identify the best students without needing to add an A-level grade requirement, it's sensible to set a target that challenges applicants to carry on working and also means that Oxford will rarely, if ever, be a logical insurance choice since that is a nightmare for planning purposes.

Whether grade inflation (as defined above) arises from better teaching, students working harder, the availability of resits, changes in syllabus content or a number of other factors is highly debatable, so if the definition adopted carries some assumption about the cause then people have a variety of views and it's reasonable to be unconvinced.
Original post by Octohedral
I can't comment on other subjects, but Oxford maths covers more stuff more quickly than any other maths undergraduate courses that I have seen so far, save perhaps Imperial and Cambridge. The lecture notes are free on the internet if you don't believe me. The terms are short and the tutors have high expectations.

If it is true about the Russian, then I'd just say it's unfair, but if he gets a first without cheating he doesn't not deserve it. About 75% of Oxford students don't get a first, which is shocking considering the supposed standard of entry.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_degr_3.html#acollege_undergraduate_degree_classifications_201011_sorted_alphabetically

Edit: To clarify, I'm not putting down people who get 2:1's etc, just saying there's clearly a lot of people at other universities who do better than people who get into Oxford - you still have to earn your degree.


I don't see why it's shocking- if everyone at Oxford got a 1st, there'd be no point in having any kind of grading system, as they'd be meaningless if we all walked away with them...Conversely, it's also possible to get a first and not actually be a very good academic, if you manage to learn to take advantage of the exam system and know which facts to revise, without knowing how to apply them.
Original post by lostlife
You must be a PPP voter I believe.

Rich and powerfull poeple in the indian sub continent aren't intelligent but thugs and gangsters, most of them.

If Mr. Zulfiqar Ali was soooo intelligent, how come he divided Pakistan into two nations? Pakistan and Bangladesh?

Bilawal being intelligent? at the same time you want us to look at his family members...ever thought about his father?

Anyways, every intellectuel person would agree that most politicians in Pakistan buy their way into top universities across the globe.


Seeing as I'm not from Pakistan, no I don't vote PPP.

And Benazir Bhutto bought her position as president of the Oxford Union yes? :wink:
Original post by lostlife
That's so true, Even his sisters went to Oxford.

Ofcourse you can buy your way into top universities. If anyone has watched the movie based on Bush's life, you will know that he was a dumb ass guy...but his father, Bush senior, used his contacts and got Bush junior into good university in USA.


That's the US where the college system is completely different to over here. Alumni donate billions to universities each year, so legacy admissions are very common.
Original post by ellasmith
Don't rate me down, but I've heard across the grapevine that some people with contacts in Oxford and with some extra moolah can BUY their way into Oxford.

For example, this super rich russian guy in my year is not really oxford mat. He's a distinctly average student who isn't really loquacious enough to blag his way in via interview or personal statement. He has links to admissions tutors in Oxford and a **** load of money and got an Oxford offer for law at BBB.

WTF? :hmmm:

OPINIONS?


Some people have balls, some have intellect, some have money and some have envy. Now if you ask me, I think the latter applies to you.
If you want money be easy. :colondollar:
Original post by Tomatochuckers
There's a guy in my school who seems quite shy and hardly ever talks but he always does very well when it comes to oral tests etc.


In a thread about buying one's way to Oxford, oral test is a keyword.
Reply 237
Avatar for Picaa
Picaa
10
Prince Charles went to Cambridge. Prince William went to St Andrews. Gadaffi's son went to LSE. There are many other examples, but some Russian tycoons are in the same financial league as these three individuals. Case closed.
Reply 238
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JayReg
14
Original post by Bobo1234
Conversely, it's also possible to get a first and not actually be a very good academic, if you manage to learn to take advantage of the exam system and know which facts to revise, without knowing how to apply them.


That's quite surprising, would you say that's also true across the board for subjects other than yours?
Original post by Picaa
Prince Charles went to Cambridge. Prince William went to St Andrews. Gadaffi's son went to LSE. There are many other examples, but some Russian tycoons are in the same financial league as these three individuals. Case closed.


As far as I'm aware Prince William got the grades required for St Andrews, which were lower then than they are now (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though). Cambridge certainly used to give out much lower offers when Prince Charles went - I know someone from a fairly ordinary background who went to Cambridge 10 years later with an offer of two Es for passing the entrance exam. I don't know whether Gaddafi's son was qualified to go to the LSE but found it pretty amusing that Oxford rejected him.

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