Vac Schemes 2012: The early bird catches the firm!

Hey guys. I will be joining this thread, doing my research/doing absolutely nothing at home at the moment so I'll answer those specific questions later.

Bit of a silly question though...does getting an open day somewhere suggest that your CV/competency question answers were of a good enough standard when it comes to VS apps? Or just that you weren't awful enough to be rejected? I got open days at CMS, S+S and A&O. All top firms obviously but I wouldn't want to convince myself I stood a massive shot and waste loads of time targeting only them and similar firms.

I think this is definitely a very good sign - I know that at least A&O uses the same application process for their open days as for their vac schemes, so well done! This. of course, does not guarantee a VS but, having gone to the firms' open days, you will be able to make your applications stand out. I only ever went to one open day and subsequently also got a VS at that firm when I applied.

It will also be great for when you apply to other City firms too - it will show you are proactive and that you've had an interest in City law from the start and that is a very good thing, indeed.

I think this is definitely a very good sign - I know that at least A&O uses the same application process for their open days as for their vac schemes, so well done! This. of course, does not guarantee a VS but, having gone to the firms' open days, you will be able to make your applications stand out. I only ever went to one open day and subsequently also got a VS at that firm when I applied.

It will also be great for when you apply to other City firms too - it will show you are proactive and that you've had an interest in City law from the start and that is a very good thing, indeed.

If you have done open days at firms that were marketed as open days for first years, is that good enough? Do I still have to get onto open days with the same firm when I am in my second year?

So far I have been on five open days, a mixture of which have been for first years and non first years.

Any open day, whether for first years or not, is a good addition to your CV, shows interest in the profession and allows you to get an insight to the firm. That's really all you want out of them.

It sounds like you have already been to loads! IMO you already have plenty to prove your interest so I don't think you need to keep going on more just for the sake of it. I don't think further open days will really add anything more to your applications now, so if you want to go on more then just go out of interest if you really like a certain firm and want to get a better look at it.

Yeah I think it would be fine. You can use the open days as evidence of your interest and awareness of what goes on at law firms to help you get on vac schemes, and then when you're applying for TCs you have your vac schemes as your legal work exp. Your gap year work is good as well as you were working for a longer period. Personally I find it a bit shocking when people's only work experience consists of odd open days here and there and they have never actually held down any kind of job!

Oh so you would encourage me to disclose that I worked on my year out? It was just a job in a high street clothes store but it did get me interested in business. The structure of the company was that it was private equity backed by Bridgepoint Capital which continued to inject cash into the company particularly after the economic downturn.

Sure, it was just a job to fill in the time and obviously get a bit of cash, but it could be used to relate to commercial awareness. I'm happy I did it, I think it's good to have held down a job at some point!

The firms you are applying for are very different. I'd question with such a variety whether you have done enough research on what you want/where you'd fit.

It's quite common for firms to ask where else you have applied. So, for Freshfields it would be fine to say another MC, a SC and a top end US firm, because you want to see how the cultures compare. If you answer honestly, you run the risk of it looking like an ill-considered scatter-gun approach.

How are the firms very different? I find it difficult to tell the difference between them, if you mean to say which practice areas they have - a lot of them are very similar. Do the firms truly expect you to know which practice area you want when you're only a second year law student?

Can you give me advice on how to not be seen as having a scattergun approach?

If you can't tell the difference between FBD and DLA, you haven't done enough research yet! Look at Chambers Student Guide, Roll on Friday, Legal week, Vault firm profiles as a starting point.

It's not about knowing which practice area you'd like to qualify into. One big difference is the type of clients/transactions they advise on.

To avoid a scatter gun approach, you need to decide which type of firm you want to work for/have a realistic chance at, and then apply to say FBD and the firms that it regularly competes against.

If you don't do that, you will find it much harder to answer the "why commercial law"/"why this firm" questions on the application forms/at interview.

Some people do apply to 25+ firms in seemingly random order. While there is an element of luck in all this, I think an unfocused approach contributes to some people's TC hunt.

Well there's not need to be snooty. I only just finished first year for goodness sake, I'm not a second year that is fast approaching TC deadlines. Know your audience, please. I asked your advice because I was confident you could give it, but instead you took the opportunity to put me down and act like a categoric authority on the matter.

I know a differences between DLA Piper and FBD or Baker & McKenzie in terms of the work they do - e.g. DLA Piper only 40% of their work is cross border, whereas at Bakers it's 80%.

Well there's not need to be snooty. I only just finished first year for goodness sake, I'm not a second year that is fast approaching TC deadlines. Know your audience, please. I asked your advice because I was confident you could give it, but instead you took the opportunity to put me down and act like a categoric authority on the matter.

I know a differences between DLA Piper and FBD or Baker & McKenzie in terms of the work they do - e.g. DLA Piper only 40% of their work is cross border, whereas at Bakers it's 80%.

I don't see how it was "snooty" to tell you that you hadn't done enough research. In her original post, peachmelba had given you advice on how to avoid the scattergun approach and also where to look for the information about firms but you seem to have ignored most of it and instead concentrated on the one sentence which you claim has "put you down". If anything, I think you are a little overly sensitive; something that you will need to control as a City solicitor

Just my two pence, really.

Agree with this. Going into this process you will need to develop a thicker skin or else you will have an absolutely awful time when you start getting PFOs and when partners keep challenging everything you say in interviews! If you take it all personally you will end up curled in a ball wailing by next September (I felt like doing this myself at times!)

You seem quite on the ball for a first year and as you say you do have plenty of time to research firms and learn where everything fits in the legal market so I don't think it is a huge cause for concern that you are a bit unsure at the moment but it's definitely worth having a regular look at The Lawyer etc to improve your understanding.

Anyway, with regard to the Scattergun approach, I don't think is necessarily bad to apply to a variety of types of firm. At the vac scheme stage I actually think it's quite a good idea to try and get some variety so you can see what actually suits you. I applied for TCs at all sorts of firms from MC to regional... some might call it scattergun, I call it being "open minded" The important thing is that if you are applying to a range of firms that don't naturally fit together, you have to be aware of the differences and know why you have chosen them.

And finally, for what it's worth I don't think Peach is snooty. She is quite direct but she gives lots of good advice and is generally a good sort.

Hogan Lovells open day and vac scheme sorted

And an open day at simmons and simmons on thursday.

Better get researching!

Just finished my first year! Thank you It's because I applied to a a campus ambassador for lovells at my uni. Had to do an app form and go to assessment day but got it. Really pleased that at least I have one vac scheme and a bit of cash to go with it. I just hope I can get more!

Yeah go for it!