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Why did YOU choose Oxford or Cambridge over the other?
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thomasjtl
who told you that oxford generally give people aab-abb offers for maths? That's rubbish- none of the oxford mathsmos from my school (8) or any of the TSR mathsmos got AAB offers for oxford; poor dom had to get AAAAB.
Good for you if you can do the oxford entrance paper without any problems- i assume you're exhaggerating, but even so, the example papers on the website are all a lot easier than the real ones generally are, having seen about 10 years worth, collected by my school. I expect they put up easier examples so as not to deter good applicants who may lack confidence.
I'm not debating that cambridge is the better place for maths, and it does indeed have more stringent entry requirements, however, you're wrong to assume that getting into oxford is easy, or that it's easier to get into than warwick; many people are rejected by oxford but accepted by warwick. Warwick only require STEP/AEA if you aren't doing further maths, btw.
As for cambridge being 3000X the city oxford is- have you actually been there yet????
Good for you if you can do the oxford entrance paper without any problems- i assume you're exhaggerating, but even so, the example papers on the website are all a lot easier than the real ones generally are, having seen about 10 years worth, collected by my school. I expect they put up easier examples so as not to deter good applicants who may lack confidence.
I'm not debating that cambridge is the better place for maths, and it does indeed have more stringent entry requirements, however, you're wrong to assume that getting into oxford is easy, or that it's easier to get into than warwick; many people are rejected by oxford but accepted by warwick. Warwick only require STEP/AEA if you aren't doing further maths, btw.
As for cambridge being 3000X the city oxford is- have you actually been there yet????
Was the post this referred to deleted by any chance? Who wrote it?
I've chosen Oxford (for Maths) - now, I've discussed it with my teachers and they said that I would have a very good chance of getting into either Oxford or Cambridge, so my motivation isn't in that "I can't get to Cambridge". My reason for choosing Oxford was that it was simply so much nicer as a place. Cambridge was quite pretentious in comparison, and the fake gloss exterior at the Open Day was incredible - I've never quite seen anything so absurd!! Oxford seemed like a real place with real people that weren't just students - Cambridge is really, purely, a university town. Oxford is a much more lively place, and even though I don't go out much, the atmosphere at Oxford I think would win, hands down, against the atmosphere of living and studying in Cambridge. Also, the assumption that people make in saying that all Cambridge Mathmos are better than Oxford Mathmos is quite frustrating (I'm looking at you Generalebriety
)... Some very good Mathematicians (some of the best, in fact - Andrew Wiles and Steven Hawking to give 2 famous names) start out at Oxford, and then either move to Cambridge, or move straight into a job. And just because someone doesn't take STEP doesn't mean that they aren't good enough, in terms of natural ability, to tackle them. I think there's a lot to be said for Oxford Mathmos - I wouldn't be surprised if, after the Mathematics faculty is improved, Oxford closes the gap (as has been seen with differing departments at Oxford and Cambridge) quite significantly. Perhaps Cambridge should be ready to relinquish their "unparalleled" status within the next 5-10 years
)... Some very good Mathematicians (some of the best, in fact - Andrew Wiles and Steven Hawking to give 2 famous names) start out at Oxford, and then either move to Cambridge, or move straight into a job. And just because someone doesn't take STEP doesn't mean that they aren't good enough, in terms of natural ability, to tackle them. I think there's a lot to be said for Oxford Mathmos - I wouldn't be surprised if, after the Mathematics faculty is improved, Oxford closes the gap (as has been seen with differing departments at Oxford and Cambridge) quite significantly. Perhaps Cambridge should be ready to relinquish their "unparalleled" status within the next 5-10 years 
MML, Trinity, Cambridge. I had been to Oxford several times before I had gone to Cambridge (e.g. school trips, days out etc etc) and also thought it was pretty nice. But when I went to Cambridge I jsut though it was much nicer for some reason. Also Cam do Spanish ab initio and if I wanted to do MML at Oxford I would have had to have done just German, and I wanted to do 2 foreign languages. Also the MML department at Cam looked more impressive and were more helpful to me. 
henryt
I've chosen Oxford (for Maths) - now, I've discussed it with my teachers and they said that I would have a very good chance of getting into either Oxford or Cambridge, so my motivation isn't in that "I can't get to Cambridge". My reason for choosing Oxford was that it was simply so much nicer as a place. Cambridge was quite pretentious in comparison, and the fake gloss exterior at the Open Day was incredible - I've never quite seen anything so absurd!! Oxford seemed like a real place with real people that weren't just students - Cambridge is really, purely, a university town. Oxford is a much more lively place, and even though I don't go out much, the atmosphere at Oxford I think would win, hands down, against the atmosphere of living and studying in Cambridge. Also, the assumption that people make in saying that all Cambridge Mathmos are better than Oxford Mathmos is quite frustrating (I'm looking at you Generalebriety )... Some very good Mathematicians (some of the best, in fact - Andrew Wiles and Steven Hawking to give 2 famous names) start out at Oxford, and then either move to Cambridge, or move straight into a job. And just because someone doesn't take STEP doesn't mean that they aren't good enough, in terms of natural ability, to tackle them. I think there's a lot to be said for Oxford Mathmos - I wouldn't be surprised if, after the Mathematics faculty is improved, Oxford closes the gap (as has been seen with differing departments at Oxford and Cambridge) quite significantly. Perhaps Cambridge should be ready to relinquish their "unparalleled" status within the next 5-10 years
)... Some very good Mathematicians (some of the best, in fact - Andrew Wiles and Steven Hawking to give 2 famous names) start out at Oxford, and then either move to Cambridge, or move straight into a job. And just because someone doesn't take STEP doesn't mean that they aren't good enough, in terms of natural ability, to tackle them. I think there's a lot to be said for Oxford Mathmos - I wouldn't be surprised if, after the Mathematics faculty is improved, Oxford closes the gap (as has been seen with differing departments at Oxford and Cambridge) quite significantly. Perhaps Cambridge should be ready to relinquish their "unparalleled" status within the next 5-10 years Stephen Hawking did Physics at Oxford, not Maths, and then moved to Cambridge for his PhD. Wiles lived in Cambridge so perhaps its understandable he moved from Cambridge, and even then he came back for his PhD. PhD is arguably more important than degree if you are going to be a top Mathmo
As for pretentious atmospheres, out of interest which coillege open day did you go to?
henryt
Cambridge was quite pretentious in comparison, and the fake gloss exterior at the Open Day was incredible - I've never quite seen anything so absurd!!
That's the first time I've heard anyone say Cambridge seemed pretentious compared to Oxford... still, you're entitled to your opinion.
I think the "3000x better" thing was a joke.
Apparently Cambridge have the monopoly on a sense of humour.
I liked Cam because it looked pretty and because the MML course suited me more there. Unfortunately, you'll get some crazy uber-competitive people equally at both unis.
As for cambridge being 3000X the city oxford is- have you actually been there yet????
Apparently Cambridge have the monopoly on a sense of humour.
I liked Cam because it looked pretty and because the MML course suited me more there. Unfortunately, you'll get some crazy uber-competitive people equally at both unis.
CamSPSer
Stephen Hawking did Physics at Oxford, not Maths, and then moved to Cambridge for his PhD. Wiles lived in Cambridge so perhaps its understandable he moved from Cambridge, and even then he came back for his PhD. PhD is arguably more important than degree if you are going to be a top Mathmo
As for pretentious atmospheres, out of interest which coillege open day did you go to?
As for pretentious atmospheres, out of interest which coillege open day did you go to?
Which is all very nice, except we are talking about the undergraduate degree.
Oh and it's spelt 'college' if you are going to be pedantic about that kind of thing. Maybe people unnecessarily pointing out which version of the name 'Stephen' Mr. Hawking is called was part of the reason Henry found Cambridge pretentious.
kizer
Which is all very nice, except we are talking about the undergraduate degree.
Oh and it's spelt 'college' if you are going to be pedantic about that kind of thing. Maybe people unnecessarily pointing out which version of the name 'Stephen' Mr. Hawking is called was part of the reason Henry found Cambridge pretentious.
Oh and it's spelt 'college' if you are going to be pedantic about that kind of thing. Maybe people unnecessarily pointing out which version of the name 'Stephen' Mr. Hawking is called was part of the reason Henry found Cambridge pretentious.
Because that came up as a question at the open day
. And it still doesn't change the fact that Mr Hawking never studied Maths at OxfordWas the post this referred to deleted by any chance? Who wrote it?
stevo- i wasn't speaking out of blind loyalty. I live in cambridge (well, milton), and have been frequently frustrated by the lack of nightlife. I give it more stick than it deserves though, as most of our problems was caused by half my friends, and myself for quite a while, being under 18 and not being let into places/ not being able to buy drinks, which rules out quite a few places. I expect i have unrealistic expectations of what a good city should have in terms of entertainment, anyway.
As for theology- that really depends on what sort of a christian you are, surely. Depending on how traditional/happy clappy/evangelical/symbolic you perfer your church to be, i think many people would be unsatisfied at either. I personally would prefer the environment at wycliffe hall, oxford. Ridley much less so. Although i'd probably prefer to go to somewhere where the course was more practically and spiritually, as opposed to academically, focussed anyway.
Wow, this discussion is becoming a little heated all of a sudden.
Actually, if you re-read my post you'll see that I was agreeing with you. I accept that Oxford is a bigger and more bustling place, with more to do. I only object that some people overstate the case, and I do wonder how many people are simply passing on 'common knowledge' but have little experience to back it up (I'm not directing this at you or anyone in particular).
Noted. Perhaps I was wrong to try to speak for the whole of public opinion, I've just always seen Oxford as more stuck in its ways and clinging on to old traditions, e.g. subfusc in exams. I think the public also see it that way because it is the older of the two and so in a way we project this image onto it, which is unfair.
What about Cambridge do you find pretentious, exactly? A lot of the old traditions have been dropped. At my college (one of the oldest and largest) you don't even have to dress up when you go to formal hall - a gown and jeans is enough. Or is your definition of pretentiousness based on the way you perceive Cambridge people? If so, perhaps your opinion merely reflects the fact that you're Oxford scum and we're filthy tabs.
EDIT: Actually, as of September 4th I will be both filthy AND scummy. I hope that reassures you I'm not as biased against Oxford as you might assume.
thomasjtl
stevo- i wasn't speaking out of blind loyalty. I live in cambridge (well, milton), and have been frequently frustrated by the lack of nightlife. I give it more stick than it deserves though, as most of our problems was caused by half my friends, and myself for quite a while, being under 18 and not being let into places/ not being able to buy drinks, which rules out quite a few places. I expect i have unrealistic expectations of what a good city should have in terms of entertainment, anyway.
Actually, if you re-read my post you'll see that I was agreeing with you. I accept that Oxford is a bigger and more bustling place, with more to do. I only object that some people overstate the case, and I do wonder how many people are simply passing on 'common knowledge' but have little experience to back it up (I'm not directing this at you or anyone in particular).
kizer
Seriously? I'll add my name to that then.
Noted. Perhaps I was wrong to try to speak for the whole of public opinion, I've just always seen Oxford as more stuck in its ways and clinging on to old traditions, e.g. subfusc in exams. I think the public also see it that way because it is the older of the two and so in a way we project this image onto it, which is unfair.
What about Cambridge do you find pretentious, exactly? A lot of the old traditions have been dropped. At my college (one of the oldest and largest) you don't even have to dress up when you go to formal hall - a gown and jeans is enough. Or is your definition of pretentiousness based on the way you perceive Cambridge people? If so, perhaps your opinion merely reflects the fact that you're Oxford scum and we're filthy tabs.
EDIT: Actually, as of September 4th I will be both filthy AND scummy. I hope that reassures you I'm not as biased against Oxford as you might assume.
CamSPSer
Because that came up as a question at the open day . And it still doesn't change the fact that Mr Hawking never studied Maths at Oxford
. And it still doesn't change the fact that Mr Hawking never studied Maths at OxfordI never did state he studied Maths at Oxford - I checked wikipedia before posting
- I simply stated that some of the best Mathematicians start at Oxford and then move to Cambridge - there is a subtle difference. I'm sure you can spot it. I'm sorry if my wording was lax in Cambridge terms... Nevertheless, I think you are a perfectly good example of why, perhaps, Cambridge isn't the right place for me - we evidently don't think along the same wavelength 
.henryt
I never did state he studied Maths at Oxford - I checked wikipedia before posting - I simply stated that some of the best Mathematicians start at Oxford and then move to Cambridge - there is a subtle difference. I'm sure you can spot it. I'm sorry if my wording was lax in Cambridge terms... Nevertheless, I think you are a perfectly good example of why, perhaps, Cambridge isn't the right place for me - we evidently don't think along the same wavelength .
- I simply stated that some of the best Mathematicians start at Oxford and then move to Cambridge - there is a subtle difference. I'm sure you can spot it. I'm sorry if my wording was lax in Cambridge terms... Nevertheless, I think you are a perfectly good example of why, perhaps, Cambridge isn't the right place for me - we evidently don't think along the same wavelength .Please, whatever you think about CamSPSer, don't make rash generalisations about the 17,000 or so students who study at Cambridge. And for the record: unnecessary spelling corrections aside, I think CamSPSer has a point.
henryt
I never did state he studied Maths at Oxford - I checked wikipedia before posting - I simply stated that some of the best Mathematicians start at Oxford and then move to Cambridge - there is a subtle difference. I'm sure you can spot it. I'm sorry if my wording was lax in Cambridge terms... Nevertheless, I think you are a perfectly good example of why, perhaps, Cambridge isn't the right place for me - we evidently don't think along the same wavelength .
- I simply stated that some of the best Mathematicians start at Oxford and then move to Cambridge - there is a subtle difference. I'm sure you can spot it. I'm sorry if my wording was lax in Cambridge terms... Nevertheless, I think you are a perfectly good example of why, perhaps, Cambridge isn't the right place for me - we evidently don't think along the same wavelength .I guess not everyone can get into the greatest university in the country, and Oxford is a good consolation prize
henryt
I never did state he studied Maths at Oxford - I checked wikipedia before posting - I simply stated that some of the best Mathematicians start at Oxford and then move to Cambridge
- I simply stated that some of the best Mathematicians start at Oxford and then move to CambridgeHere you make the assumption that at that age he was one of the most mathematically able people entering university. I'm not going to say he wasn't very bright (he got a first with apparantly very little work then went on to become the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics), but he could have developed intellectually after entering university. I'm sure I read in a book (though I can't remember which one) that he was towards the middle of his class in school. The closest I could find to this from a quick google search was
http://library.thinkquest.org/C007571/english/advance/biography.htm
Hawking was a keen child, but he was not the brightest in his competitive A stream class. Some of his classmates did not believe he could do well, though they gave him the nickname of Einstein.
I'm not quite certain how reliable this biography is, but it looks accurate enough. There is also the suggestion (backed up by wikipedia) that "he applied to study mathematics ... but ended up studying physics". If he was good enough I'd have thought he'd be able to do maths.
harr
Here you make the assumption that at that age he was one of the most mathematically able people entering university. I'm not going to say he wasn't very bright (he got a first with apparantly very little work then went on to become the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics), but he could have developed intellectually after entering university. I'm sure I read in a book (though I can't remember which one) that he was towards the middle of his class in school. The closest I could find to this from a quick google search was
I'm not quite certain how reliable this biography is, but it looks accurate enough. There is also the suggestion (backed up by wikipedia) that "he applied to study mathematics ... but ended up studying physics". If he was good enough I'd have thought he'd be able to do maths.
I'm not quite certain how reliable this biography is, but it looks accurate enough. There is also the suggestion (backed up by wikipedia) that "he applied to study mathematics ... but ended up studying physics". If he was good enough I'd have thought he'd be able to do maths.
I think its a case that Maths simply wasn't available. If I remember correctly Maths is offered at less colleges at Oxford than at Cambridge
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