Parents earn enough to not qualify for larger loan - but wont help out

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Attacking the rich again.

Where am I attacking the rich?
I was just saying it is easily possible for those from better off families to come out of uni with a lower debt than those from worse off families.
I was not attacking anyway, just giving an explanation to someone who was a bit confused of that would be possible.

Original post by Otkem

Middle class people (like the OP) are hurt much more than poor people when it comes to university financing

And yet have advantages in every other part of life. Seems a little hollow to be complaining about having a better standard of living.

Original post by Otkem

as they don't have the luxury of living on handouts from the state or their parents.

Generally they can rely on their parents if they really really need to.
The only problem comes when the parents do not want to help. And even then, if a parent faces the prospect of their child being kicked out of their accommodation because they cannot pay the rent, then the parent will help if they can. In a case like that, middle class parents would be able to help. Poor parents would not.

Original post by Otkem

The squeezed middle have it much harder than the poor.

You clearly have no idea what it is like to be poor.

Reply 101

elinorus

Original post by Otkem

Oh here we go, HERE WE GO. Attacking the rich again. Middle class people (like the OP) are hurt much more than poor people when it comes to university financing, as they don't have the luxury of living on handouts from the state or their parents. The squeezed middle have it much harder than the poor.

I agree. It's a well known fact, where do people think the phrase the squeezed middle comes from?

Reply 102

elinorus

Original post by WelshBluebird

You clearly have no idea what it is like to be poor.

Unfortunately I do know what it is like to be poor. Living on £30 a week at uni is very informative. Kids from middle class parents who cannot afford to contribute come out with more debt than poorer students whose parents can't contribute.

Reply 103

wilson_smith

Original post by Chumbaniya

This is a pretty small-minded response. A person should not be punished for having rich parents any more than they should be punished for having poor parents. Equal opportunities actually means allowing people from all backgrounds the same chances to succeed; it doesn't mean giving those with poorer backgrounds help and ignoring those with richer parents. I think you've fallen into the trap of assuming that 'fairness' means normalising opportunities over the course of a person's, so that having a privileged childhood means a person deserves less than others for the rest of their life in order to 'balance things out'.

What..? The person you're quoting merely forwarded a (true) descriptive claim, there was barely normativity in the statement - he never said whether he thought that matter-of-fact was just or fair etc.

Reply 104

wilson_smith

On topic - I've survived with relatively little financial assistance and I think the lowest grade of loan so far in second year. Although I am -£300 at the moment.

Reply 105

elinorus

Original post by WelshBluebird

But you don't have to pay it all outright for the child to have a lower debt.
A lot of people I know don't need to whole loan. Their parents pay an awful lot of their costs (either all or part of the rent, food etc). As such, most of the loan has been stuck in a high interest savings account. They will MAKE money on it.

Do you know what interest rates are like at the moment? they'd make about a fiver. But yeah I get what you are saying, kids of rich people don't have a debt, but life is unfair we already know that. What the OP is talking about is middle class parents who can't afford to contribute, so the child ends up getting no extra help from the government, and no help from parents. The poorer kids get bursaries and grants galore, which reduces their loan and means they are much better off while at uni.

Reply 106

KCosmo

I'm in the same boat, although I can get a student loan to cover most of my accommodation :/

Reply 107

jeh_jeh

Original post by marshymarsh

The Loan you get for under 25k is 3.8k and the grant is about 3.2k for the 12/13. The more grant you get the less loan you get and vice versa. Which is about 7k. If you got a university with an average bursary of say 1k you get 8k total for the year. It is doable, but you do have to live on a pittance. 5k rent and bills gives 3k for food, travel, clothes, textbooks, stationary, socialising.

And you miss out on alot more at university, with 8k you cannot afford the Ski trips or field trips or socials or balls. Whilst these arn't a core part of University they still contribute to the experience of it all.

A pittance? I don't know where you go to uni, or where you're getting your figures from, but £5k/year rent would get you a VERY nice place. Everyone I know has enough loan to manage to live somewhere. And even if you did spend that much, £3k still gives you £100/week, which isn't bad.

I seriously hope you're joking - you want the government to fund your ski trips and social life? :s-smilie:

£8k is still much more than I manage on a year and I don't feel deprived. :s-smilie:

Reply 108

elinorus

Original post by roast cat

I'm sure that this topic has been discussed many times before, but I used the search function and searched google for quite a while and couldn't find relevant information. I couldn't work out any good specific keywords to use or anything. Sorry if this is a common question that everyone is bored of answering!

As I say in the title, my parents earn enough for me to only qualify for the smallest maintenance loan. However, they are refusing to pay any money towards me going to university.

Currently I have a job and am working a lot of hours to save up money for living so my maintenance loan can go on my accommodation. The course that I am (hopefully) going to be taking also extends in to the summer and I will have only a few weeks of time off the entire year. It also involves shifts at a hospital which cycle, meaning what free time I do have will change in a manner that makes getting a regular job very difficult.

I don't think that I will be able to save enough money to fund all of my years at university. Saving enough for the first year will not be a problem, but even for the second year it may be difficult. Is there any way to get a larger student loan despite my parents' high earnings? Perhaps declaring independence some how?

Other possibilities I have considered are:

Begging the bank for a loan. I don't want to do this particularly because of interest.

Working for a call centre from home while at university. I may have to do this as it seem like the only job with flexible hours that I can work. Ideally I will not have to resort to this as my course will be very time consuming, but I recognise that it may be my only option.

Not go to university. Obviously this is the option I am trying to avoid.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help here.

What course are you doing? Sounds like a pretty intense one if you don't get long summers, it is hard to work a part time job as well as a proper full time degree, but it is do-able. If you aren't morally opposed, then get married, just make sure your 'spouse' earns under £25,000 or whatever the threshold is for getting all the freebies. If you have earned £7,500 per year for 3 years you are independent too.

Reply 109

jeh_jeh

Original post by OU Student

The loan for London is far higher.

But no one's forcing poorer people to go to London. The original post was something like, "Poor people end up with so much more debt." Well, of course it'll cost more to live if you study in the capital city - but that's got nothing to do with how much money you have!

Reply 110

littleone271

Original post by marshymarsh

These kids should see this as an opportunity to become independent, and take more life satisfaction rather than having another ASDA at home delivery paid for by Daddy arriving on the doorstep.

Since when was ASDA the supermarket for the privileged? lol Whenever I've been to one it's usually been full of chavs. The other day I was confronted by a man walking infront of me who actually stopped pushing his trolley and stood perfectly still while straining out a noisy fart before doing a wiggle and saying 'oooo extra special' and continuing his journey to the pizza freezer.

Maybe waitrose delivery? I don't even know if they deliver. I just thought it was interesting that you think having ASDA deliver to you is in some way representative of an extravagant lifestyle that involves depending on Daddy.

Also.. I don't agree with the people who seem to think that people with divorced parents or less money are less likely to go to university. What makes people think money is necessarily related to class anyway? I know plenty of working class families with tons of money while my family have very middle class roots but have very little money (thanks to a certain selfish, lazy and extravagant ancestor!).

Anyway.. OP- Have you actually explained the student finance system to your parents and why they're required to help fund your education? I don't think now is the best time to be trying to teach you lessons in life.. All they're going to achieve by refusing to help you is making life unnecessarily difficult for you. I don't really understand it to be honest. Maybe you could arrange something with them whereby you promise to pay them back when you get your grad job?

I'm quite lucky really because my parents that I live with (mum and stepdad) earn less than 25k a year and I'll get help from home too from my mum and my dad. It's not because they can afford to any more than anyone else whose on the same income because they have mortgages and outgoings too but I don't have brothers or sisters and also I guess some people prioritise differently.

Reply 111

t0ffee

Original post by roast cat

Well it is essentially household income - so say that you live with your grandparents.

And tbh if you go to your uni and say that you have no money they kinda have an obligation to help you out and will - simply because they can't afford a 'student leaves because uni wouldn't help financially' headline.

Reply 112

Shani

Original post by t0ffee

Well it is essentially household income - so say that you live with your grandparents.

That's wrong. It's either your parents or you prove you're an independent student (if you're under 25). It doesn't matter if you live with them or not.

Reply 113

jennifex

Original post by roast cat

Lots of people have this problem. I'm afraid there is not really any other help out there unless you get a straightforward bank loan (doubt they will accept you for a career development loan at undergrad). It is doable to work alongside a normal undergraduate degree although it sounds like yours might be quite intense?

If your course involves going into a hospital, is it something NHS based? If so, don't you get an NHS bursary or something? Might be worth looking into.

If all else fails, talk to your parents again and explain your situation. They are probably just trying to encourage your independence, but if they know you are thinking you may genuinely not be able to go to university because of this, they might reconsider helping you out a little.

Reply 114

WelshBluebird

Original post by elinorus

1 - That statement was not in reply to you. It was to Otkem.
2 - The vast majority of middle class parents DO contribute, quite a lot. It is only the minority that unfortunately fall between the gaps.

Original post by elinorus

As above. The number of middle class parents who literally cannot afford to contribute is very small. Even if it means selling one of their two cars or whatever. Now, the parents not WANTING to contribute is a totally separate issue and is usually what people actually mean.

Think of it like this. For middle class parents, if their kid is in financial trouble and needs money to pay their rent for the month, or face getting kicked out, then they will generally be able to help out. For poorer parents that is not the case. It is not a case of not wanting to, it is a case of literally not being able to.

Reply 115

Llamageddon

I studied at UCL which is at a rather expensive area of London to live in, but like you my parents earned too much to qualify for the full loan yet with mortgages and other costs really couldn't afford to help me (they only just earnt too much and had issues with the mortgage that cost them a fortune). Easier said than done but I had a part-time job during 6th form that I used to save up money, I maintained this job during christmas/ summer at university and made ends meet living off cheap food and drinking in rather than going out (nobody else had money either).

Again, easier said than done, but you might be able to take a course with a year in industry, take a gap year to earn money (if you can get a job) or choose a university close to home and not go into halls. The problem with many grants are that they are more to do with social engineering than anything. Your demographic is overrepresented so from a statistical point of view it's less important that you feel able to go to university.

Oh, I also left university with £2400 overdraft and ~£350 on a credit card. This vanishes quickly if you get a job but if you don't it will cripple you.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 116

Llamageddon

Original post by WelshBluebird

Think of it like this. For middle class parents, if their kid is in financial trouble and needs money to pay their rent for the month, or face getting kicked out, then they will generally be able to help out. For poorer parents that is not the case. It is not a case of not wanting to, it is a case of literally not being able to.

The mistake you are making here is confusing the parents ability to fund university with the students. It IS a choice, but it IS NOT the choice of the person going to university, and that is the issue here.

Reply 117

xoxAngel_Kxox

I was in this position too and I was always made to work for money rather than getting pocket money. I got a paper round as soon as it was legal, and by the time I was 18 I was doing 6 hours a week delivering papers which I got £30 for (I did that to try and equal what my friends got through EMA). I appreciated the help from my parents growing up, as obviously I had a comfortable life, but I also think they did the right thing to not just give me money whenever I asked for it, because I'm really good at managing my own money now which I doubt I would have been if I had just had money given to me when I was younger.

Reply 118

marshymarsh

Original post by jeh_jeh

£8k is still much more than I manage on a year and I don't feel deprived. :s-smilie:

I am not suggesting more money be given in loans and grants merely pointing out it is difficult to live on, you typically have to pay for a 12 month contract with houses closer to University charging significantly more, 5k being a market average of halls/private renting/private halls.

There is a massive disparity at University, whether it is a good or bad thing Universities split their students on entry into expensive and cheap halls. Money gives you all sorts of life and socialising opportunities that those with wealth fail to realise, it is not a free ride being a student from a poor background. For the large majority of their life so far they have likely (notice in everyone of my posts I use likely/chances we are are not talking of individual cases here) had a sub-par education, and a less comfortable upbringing. Yet these students have still proven that they are capable of swimming against the tide and achieving a place to study at some of the finest Universities in the world. This should be rewarded by the state (people) by saying 'you should go to University, here is some monetary support to ensure that you can'. No one here is denying that there are 'middle class students who fall through the cracks', but can we please stop using the minority of people as arguments. The large amount of middle earners that do go to University, have their living costs topped up by their parents.

Whilst it is 'unfair' to suggest that parental income should impact how much loan is given to a student on the assumption their parents will support their application, it is irrelevant to providing the less well off students with grants/loans. The grant/loan is a form of social engineering to not put off less well off families from sending their children to University, it is a message from all of society that we the people believe in social mobility and will support you in bettering yourself. If your family income is above 60k, you can still get a 3k maintenance loan. If a family on 60k cannot spare 3-4k for their offspring per year I would suggest that they are planning their family finances poorly.

I am still wondering if the OP is still about, if he is on a Science course he has nothing to worry about. Do a YinI, get a sponsorship, live happy.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 119

WelshBluebird

Original post by marshymarsh

Really??
I go to uni in Bath, which is a pretty damn expensive city. Near enough everyone I know who go to unis in other cities pay a lot less than I do.
Yet my halls came to £3380 for the year (including bills) and my rent this year comes to £3685 (plus bills). No where near £5k. And remember most people I know elsewhere pay a lot less.