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Do I pass as male?

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Reply 140
Original post by ed-
It sounds like you're starting to think I myself am against gay and trans people. This isn't the case. I just don't think there's a need for it to be advertised - 1st, because this is a forum where it doesn't matter what you are and 2nd because it provokes a sensative issue.
It's like standing up and saying, "society accepts me, I dare you to say something" (same goes for gay pride).


In all fairness OP started this thread to ask whether he passed as male. It wasn't "Im trans, have you got a problem with it?"

Original post by ed-
Again, I'm not against it, people can be what they want. It's just when people seem to like drawing attention to it and standing out, then claiming that it's an issue because people notice, and discriminate.


That could be related to almost anything, and I agree with you on that point. But nowhere in this thread have I seen anyone do that.
Original post by kerily
Just looked through my profile, and dear Lord, I am so jealous right now :tongue: You pass substantially better than I do. Not that that's hard :ahee:

I'm tempted to post photos to see what people think, but I'm conscious that they'd probably be quite mean (this is TSR, after all) and I'm also conscious that I look androgynous at best. :emo:


I saw your photo elsewhere (and didn't realise you were blonde! :eek2:).

I think you've got a good body shape, but have you considered cutting your hair a bit shorter? That could help to make you look more masculine, since there seems to be a trend towards pixie cuts and more "feminine" takes on male hairstyles.

The other thing that occurred to me (which is difficult to see from the photo) is that you may want to try having it cut to fit the shape of your head. It's quite hard to describe what I mean, but most guys' hair is short at the back, so their heads look round. Yours seems to stick out a bit like Sasuke from Naruto - if you wanted to keep some of the length, you could opt for having it longer on the top (like a fauxhawk-style cut, although without the obligation to style it :wink:).

Sasuke



I suspect that it's just the camera angle making it hard for me to see things, but I figured I'd give you my thoughts anyway. :smile: You're definitely androgynous, but the fact that you've got a flat chest (coupled with your body language, which I can't assess from here! :p:) would probably lead me to think you're a guy. :yep:
Reply 142
Original post by Tortious
I saw your photo elsewhere (and didn't realise you were blonde! :eek2:).

I think you've got a good body shape, but have you considered cutting your hair a bit shorter? That could help to make you look more masculine, since there seems to be a trend towards pixie cuts and more "feminine" takes on male hairstyles.

The other thing that occurred to me (which is difficult to see from the photo) is that you may want to try having it cut to fit the shape of your head. It's quite hard to describe what I mean, but most guys' hair is short at the back, so their heads look round. Yours seems to stick out a bit like Sasuke from Naruto - if you wanted to keep some of the length, you could opt for having it longer on the top (like a fauxhawk-style cut, although without the obligation to style it :wink:).

Sasuke



I suspect that it's just the camera angle making it hard for me to see things, but I figured I'd give you my thoughts anyway. :smile: You're definitely androgynous, but the fact that you've got a flat chest (coupled with your body language, which I can't assess from here! :p:) would probably lead me to think you're a guy. :yep:


I'm not naturally blond :ahee: It's dyed green at the moment anyway.

I would LOVE a haircut. Sadly, I have precisely no money, so I have to wait until I next get offered a free one. This last happened in late October, hence why it's getting overgrown as **** :no: I know you can get £10 haircuts, but... the last free haircut I got would have been worth £60 had I paid, and I'd rather get a really good cut for free than pay for a ****ty one.

My head is also a funny shape :teehee: It's massively disproportionate for my body, for one. I see what you mean, although my hair does a few things given on whether I've actually combed it or not. If we want a more recent photo:

Spoiler



It doesn't stick out as much at the back these days. It badly, badly needs trimming, but that's a function of lack of money for a haircut, again :tongue:

But why thankyou! And the chest works wonders :biggrin: My body language is very autistic and awkward - I don't have a better description sadly, but I've been told by a variety of people that I sort of walk funny. Never mind :colone: I'm mastering the art of occupying lots of physical space at the moment (men seem to stretch out/sit with legs open/etc far more often) so hopefully that will help.

I am aware that I look more androgynous than male (feminine face shape, I believe, although to be honest 'completely spherical' isn't necessarily gendered :tongue:) but hopefully this will change when I'm on testosterone, for one :biggrin:
Original post by kerily
I'm not naturally blond :ahee: It's dyed green at the moment anyway.

I would LOVE a haircut. Sadly, I have precisely no money, so I have to wait until I next get offered a free one. This last happened in late October, hence why it's getting overgrown as **** :no: I know you can get £10 haircuts, but... the last free haircut I got would have been worth £60 had I paid, and I'd rather get a really good cut for free than pay for a ****ty one.

My head is also a funny shape :teehee: It's massively disproportionate for my body, for one. I see what you mean, although my hair does a few things given on whether I've actually combed it or not. If we want a more recent photo:

Spoiler



It doesn't stick out as much at the back these days. It badly, badly needs trimming, but that's a function of lack of money for a haircut, again :tongue:


Ah, fair enough. If it wasn't clear from my earlier post, the length/style isn't a big deal; I just thought I'd offer suggestions. :smile: As you say, better to get a nice free haircut than to be stuck with one you don't like. :p:

But why thankyou! And the chest works wonders :biggrin: My body language is very autistic and awkward - I don't have a better description sadly, but I've been told by a variety of people that I sort of walk funny. Never mind :colone: I'm mastering the art of occupying lots of physical space at the moment (men seem to stretch out/sit with legs open/etc far more often) so hopefully that will help.


Mmmm. :yep: The way I've heard another transguy describe it in terms of getting your "centre" right when walking is "women walk from their hips, whereas men walk from their dicks" (:teehee:). I don't know whether or not you pack (nor is it any of my business!), but it could be something to consider whilst you're trying to perfect your walk.

I am aware that I look more androgynous than male (feminine face shape, I believe, although to be honest 'completely spherical' isn't necessarily gendered :tongue:) but hopefully this will change when I'm on testosterone, for one :biggrin:


Fingers crossed for you. :yy:
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 144
Original post by Tortious
Ah, fair enough. If it wasn't clear from my earlier post, the length/style isn't a big deal; I just thought I'd offer suggestions. :smile: As you say, better to get a nice free haircut than to be stuck with one you don't like. :p:


Oh, it wants to be shorter, I'm painfully aware :tongue: I also want to avoid resembling Justin Bieber in any way, shape or form.

Mmmm. :yep: The way I've heard another transguy describe it in terms of getting your "centre" right when walking is "women walk from their hips, whereas men walk from their dicks" (:teehee:). I don't know whether or not you pack (nor is it any of my business!), but it could be something to consider whilst you're trying to perfect your walk.


:lol:

I'm not actually aware of how I walk in the first place, so I think I'll aim for being able to walk without falling over before I try to perfect a male walk, but the sentiment is there :tongue:

Fingers crossed for you. :yy:


:h:
Reply 145
I think it was the famous philosopher Simon Weston who said. 'If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck.'
How old are you?

If older than 15, may I respectfully and non-offensively suggest that you request your doctor to supply some more testosterone etc. I mean, even thought the face and chin shape is coming up nicely, your features still look youngish and betray a female sensibility. The body also needs some work too.

All in all, I would simply think you were a younger guy. But I have seen many guys who look a bit like you and I highly suspect that they were simply male not FTM or MTF.

Please do not take my above comments as insulting and intending to offend - I do not intend to perform such actions.

(P.S. Sorry for the statements to cover my back; you've just go to tread carefully when touching on such delicate issues.)
Reply 147
It's much easier for females to pass as male rather than vice versa. Cut your hair short, hide your figure under baggy clothes and bingo.
I think you pass as a boy, albeit a slightly feminine one but many women like that. Honestly if I saw you in the street I'd probably think "fittie" :3
Original post by Betzella
wait, so over time ur body changed or you want to change?
if when you were born and your body changed it's sex automatically then for example if you get your period then you are a girl, if you don't get your period or you produce sperm then you are a boy.

just looking at the images i could feel this little girl in you, but i know that you feel and look like a boy so i think it makes you a boy. congrats.

if you want to change yourself to become another sex because you feel like it, then i think do what you feel that you are but keep in mind that to love your self no matter what you are male or female and love your body.

(if i did say something that i might had upset you, then i am sorry. it's just that i don't know how it feels as a trans)

good luck! xx


Someone's sex and someone's gender are different things. Your sex is your biological makeup, your gender is if you feel male or female. It'd be how you felt if you woke up tomorrow in a male body, but still feeling female.
Original post by Wave
It's much easier for females to pass as male rather than vice versa. Cut your hair short, hide your figure under baggy clothes and bingo.


Aint that easy unfortunately plus we're often read as butch lesbians rather than male :colonhash:
Original post by Cool Cat
Aint that easy unfortunately plus we're often read as butch lesbians rather than male :colonhash:


I'd say you look male, just with a feminine facial structure. :smile:
Original post by Greig_R
its all good till you speak....


Exactly.
Reply 153
No one would notice if they were to see you in the street, but the most noticeably feminine part of your face is your brow. Men's brows protrude much further than women's, and without plastic surgery it can't really be altered.

Still, you look a hell of a lot more masculine than a lot of 'men' these days.
Reply 154
Oh dear.
Original post by Annoying-Mouse
This is merely a linguistic problem. If someone defines a women as someone with a vagina and a man someone with a penis and anyone else who has a mixture of the two or neither as trans then she would be classed as a women because she only thinks to herself as a man whereas from that definition she wouldn't be transsexual. It depends on your outlook of sex and how you define it.


I define a duck as a thing that has a duck's beak, duck's feet, duck's body, duck's head, and a duck's tail.
One day, a duckling hatches with an abnormality that means it has no beak.
Another duckling hatches with an abnormality that means it has no legs.
Another duckling hatches with an abnormality that means it has no tail.
Etc.

My point is that the definition of women as being "has a vagina" and men being "has a penis" is severely lacking. That's why that is not the definition. It is a simplified statement that works in over 99% of cases (like "humans have two eyes" also works in over 99% of cases).

Ever heard of a hermaphrodite? Well, intersexed people clearly come under the exceptions to your rule. Transsexuals are also exceptions to your rule. They have markers which point to being either male or female (e.g. genitals), but have other markers which point in the opposite direction (brain-based).

And just in case anyone reading this is going to go there...
You use the pronouns based on their inner maleness/femaleness rather than what is on the body's surface out of politeness. Think this is silly? Well, I'll remind you that the only thing that makes you worthy of a the pronouns of he/she/they is your brain and consciousness. Outside, you're just a pile of meat. Yet, we call people the pronouns based on within the person, not the outside. On the surface, we are all just an 'it'. People who are not transsexual do not tend to take kindly to being called 'it', so transsexuals don't take kindly to being pronouned on the wrong level either.
Original post by lightburns
I define a duck as a thing that has a duck's beak, duck's feet, duck's body, duck's head, and a duck's tail.
One day, a duckling hatches with an abnormality that means it has no beak.
Another duckling hatches with an abnormality that means it has no legs.
Another duckling hatches with an abnormality that means it has no tail.
Etc.

My point is that the definition of women as being "has a vagina" and men being "has a penis" is severely lacking. That's why that is not the definition. It is a simplified statement that works in over 99% of cases (like "humans have two eyes" also works in over 99% of cases).

Ever heard of a hermaphrodite? Well, intersexed people clearly come under the exceptions to your rule. Transsexuals are also exceptions to your rule. They have markers which point to being either male or female (e.g. genitals), but have other markers which point in the opposite direction (brain-based).


What do you mean brain based? Gender is for the most part, a social construct. There are so many guys that who aren't masculine yet still men and girls who dress like tom boys and are masculine yet still women. The only difference between those two is that transgendered people feel as though they are in the wrong body and hate their current body. Just because they feel this doesn't mean it's true.

Anyway, did you miss this part of my post because it answered your objection "anyone else who has a mixture of the two or neither as trans (or some other word, can't think of any right now)". Or you could assign each of them their own words, doesn't really matter either way.



Go google male and female and click the wikilink and you'd see under male it states biological sex and under female it states biological sex. You shouldn't have quoted me if you weren't at least going to state why their definition is right and why I should use it. Most people define male and female via biological sex.
It's pretty much how I and the 99% of the population use the word. I don't see any reason to to use men and women to refer to gender. I'm not disagreeing with him because there's nothing to disagree with. He states he uses X in Y way and I use X in Z way, if I was using his definition of men and women then I agree that OP is a women but then so would many gay "men" and lesbian "women" and all the feminine "men". Gender is for the most part a social construct, I don't see much of a reason to entertain it akin to race. Just because their brain seems more closer to men than women doesn't mean they're men and women, what about those men and women whose brain is closer to the opposite sex yet aren't transgedered? Or the transgendered whose brain is similar to their sex?
(edited 12 years ago)
I apologise if this becomes a long rambly post in advance!

Original post by kerily
It honestly depends. I'm about 5'7.5 myself, which lets me pass as a shortish man; not tall by any stretch of the imagination, but not so short that people say 'my GOD, you're TINY'. But then I know some transguys who are around 5'2. I do feel really bad for them. You can get shoes that boost your height without it being obvious, but should a transwoman have the opposite problem, there's precisely nothing she can do :frown:


You are taller than me at a the massive hight of 5'6 so don't worry about hight :P

Original post by kerily

TSR is not the most supportive of places generally speaking (this thread has been uncommonly nice, and while I'm glad of that, do be aware that there are a lot of dicks on here). While I think it's fabulous that you feel comfortable putting this sort of information online (good for you :biggrin:) do be aware that you don't have to do so should you not desire to do so. You're well within your rights to never show anyone pre-transition photos ever again.


TSR has been better recently on those threads I have found (not that I frequent many) although your total surprise that I was a medic and didn't make silly assumptions from the off is slightly depressing.

Original post by kerily

Plus, I had precisely no desire to be open about this on TSR; I simply changed my gender marker from pink to blue, and then got asked lots of personal questions by, erm, about everyone! Which I decided it would be best to answer, on grounds that most people on here seem to be clueless about trans issues, and it might help them to learn stuff.


Very true and very necessary to happen. It simply doesn't get talked about often enough.
Original post by Annoying-Mouse
What do you mean brain based? Gender is for the most part, a social construct. There are so many guys that who aren't masculine yet still men and girls who dress like tom boys and are masculine yet still women. The only difference between those two is that transgendered people feel as though they are in the wrong body and hate their current body. Just because they feel this doesn't mean it's true.

I disagree. Femininity and masculinity do not someone from defining themselves as a man or a woman. A man may put a tutu on and dance about, date males, like having his nails painted etc., but he is still a man. His femininity does not stop how he defines.
That is not the only difference. A tomboy MUST be masculine. It is, by definition, a masculine female. However, you get feminine transmen. Transsexuality has nothing to do with masculinity and femininity.

Most likely I think, there is a 3rd part. You have your genitals, you have how you socially act, and you have how your brain tells you what you are and what camp you should be in. Something that doesn't seem to be caused by trauma, or anything else that could be shared by transsexuals. Something which is resistant to any attempts to change it - which is why I think most likely it is biological, not a social construct.

Original post by Annoying-Mouse
Anyway, did you miss this part of my post because it answered your objection "anyone else who has a mixture of the two or neither as trans (or some other word, can't think of any right now)". Or you could assign each of them their own words, doesn't really matter either way.

No, I saw it. And didn't answer much about it, as it's a completely wrong definition. Anyone who has a mix of genitals would be intersexed, but this has precisely zero to do with the discussion on transsexuality.

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