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WW2 bomber memorial unveiled amidst controversy. What do you think?

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I think they are rightly honoured. The squadrons were following 'higher command' and their orders which were deemed essential to the war effort at the time. Don't forget they risked their live's just like any other service man/woman.
Reply 21
Original post by cl_steele
mmm true it is a shame though apparently it was a very beautiful city before Bomber Harris turned it into a giant BBQ :rolleyes:
The thing i do find amusing is the little tit for tat the two air forces had going on with the British flattening the city of Lubeck with the Germans in turn whipping out their Baedecker guide book to find some pretty cities to flatten :L



Lots of very beautiful cities were flattened in WWII.
Reply 22
Original post by Howard
Lots of very beautiful cities were flattened in WWII.


I do not have a problem with it, before I get attacked for being ungrateful etc.

However to have legitmacy to such views, you must apply the same rules of engagment to Syria. Well the Syrian army is doing the same thing, they are focusing the attacks on the morale of ENEMY CIVIL POPULATION. The Syrian army is firstly making places physically uninhabitable and secondly making the enemy population conscious of constant personal danger.

The Syrian armies immediate aim is therefore, twofold, namely, to produce (i) destruction and (ii) The fear of death.

You cannot change the rules of engagement to suit your personal agenda, if such rules of engagement are good enough for the British then such rules of engagement are also fine for Syria.

Please do not be hypocritical and attempt to defame Syria, Syria is fighting a devious enemy and it has to employ the same tactics the British employed on Germany, afterall such tactics allowed the British to win and therefore Syria also wants to win.
Reply 23
Original post by jaadau121
I do not have a problem with it, before I get attacked for being ungrateful etc.

However to have legitmacy to such views, you must apply the same rules of engagment to Syria. Well the Syrian army is doing the same thing, they are focusing the attacks on the morale of ENEMY CIVIL POPULATION. The Syrian army is firstly making places physically uninhabitable and secondly making the enemy population conscious of constant personal danger.

The Syrian armies immediate aim is therefore, twofold, namely, to produce (i) destruction and (ii) The fear of death.

You cannot change the rules of engagement to suit your personal agenda, if such rules of engagement are good enough for the British then such rules of engagement are also fine for Syria.

Please do not be hypocritical and attempt to defame Syria, Syria is fighting a devious enemy and it has to employ the same tactics the British employed on Germany, afterall such tactics allowed the British to win and therefore Syria also wants to win.


I havn't mentioned Syria once so why the lecture? I couldn't care less what they get up to over there tbh.
Reply 24
I have mixed feelings about this but ultimately I don't feel strongly about the symbolism.
Reply 25
Original post by jaadau121
You cannot change the rules of engagement to suit your personal agenda, if such rules of engagement are good enough for the British then such rules of engagement are also fine for Syria.


Not to suit personal needs, but to reflect society. If WW2 happened now, then systematic area bombing would not occur. Weaponry is more advanced than that.

Just as we no longer have horse-mounted cavalry charges, some battelfield tactics are a product of their time and not to be repeated. Area bombing is one of them.
Reply 26
Original post by Drewski
Not to suit personal needs, but to reflect society. If WW2 happened now, then systematic area bombing would not occur. Weaponry is more advanced than that.

Just as we no longer have horse-mounted cavalry charges, some battelfield tactics are a product of their time and not to be repeated. Area bombing is one of them.


Give Syria such weapons and it will be able to precisely target terrorists who are causing havoc, the same terrorists which are backed by Turkey, Sunni dictators in the gulf, America and low and behold America's lapdog, mistress and puppet Britain. Sound familiar? yep, just like Al qaeda was western backed in its early days.

BTW if WW2 happened now, Germany would also have advanced weapons, so would Japan who also has reached the nuclear threshold, so unless carpet bombings occured the allies would not win.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 27
OOOOh I have been negged, I am glad, it shows that people cannot deal with the brutal truth, will the cowards own up and explain, I have stated NOTHING but facts, shame you cannot accept these facts
Reply 28
Original post by Howard
I havn't mentioned Syria once so why the lecture? I couldn't care less what they get up to over there tbh.


Not personally to you but people who are being hypocrites by supporting the British bombing of Civilians yet attempt to take the moral high ground on Syria, they are hypocrites.
Original post by Drewski
That's quite a simplistic way of looking of at things.

A 'waste of resources' and 'little military goal' are quite subjective. I'm fairly confident that the higher ups knew that the 30,000+ troops the Germans used to protect Berlin and other cities would have been causing them pain and damage elsewhere on the front lines had they not been tied up defending their cities. Is it 'little military goal' to cause an inordinate amount of nuisance to your enemy?


I think the troops defending Berlin and other cities were more concerned with the Soviet frontal assaults.

Germany's finest were preoccupied with defeating the Soviet advance, seeing as it was the major front of the war, and arguably was the major reasoning for why the forces defending Germany were of incredibly inferior quality when the allies rolled through rather than the entire army sitting about waiting for British bombers to fly over lol.


Like I said there is no issue with remembering the lost crews, but the atmosphere and style of the memorial is just wrong, and TBH as the 'morally superior' country the memorial should include remembrance of the civilians bomber command killed.

There's a reason the bomber command wasn't lauded and worshipped after the war, what they did was hardly crucial and was all but a declaration of total war against the German people. Bombing cities was the least noble activity of either side in the war.
Reply 30
Original post by Studentus-anonymous
Like I said there is no issue with remembering the lost crews, but the atmosphere and style of the memorial is just wrong, and TBH as the 'morally superior' country the memorial should include remembrance of the civilians bomber command killed.


It does.
"The £7 million Portland stone memorial also has been given the blessing of the German people, after an inscription was included that commemorates all the lives lost in the bombings of 1939-45.
Original post by Howard
Nothing controversial about this.

It was the Germans who originally altered their tactics and began bombing civilian populations in the UK.


Weren't they the first in WW1 to run bombings with their zepplins?
Reply 32
Original post by thunder_chunky
Weren't they the first in WW1 to run bombings with their zepplins?


Yes, but in those cases civilians weren't deliberately targeted.
Original post by Studentus-anonymous
I think the troops defending Berlin and other cities were more concerned with the Soviet frontal assaults.

Germany's finest were preoccupied with defeating the Soviet advance, seeing as it was the major front of the war, and arguably was the major reasoning for why the forces defending Germany were of incredibly inferior quality when the allies rolled through rather than the entire army sitting about waiting for British bombers to fly over lol.


Like I said there is no issue with remembering the lost crews, but the atmosphere and style of the memorial is just wrong, and TBH as the 'morally superior' country the memorial should include remembrance of the civilians bomber command killed.

There's a reason the bomber command wasn't lauded and worshipped after the war, what they did was hardly crucial and was all but a declaration of total war against the German people. Bombing cities was the least noble activity of either side in the war.


Really? I personally find the invasion of Poland and subsequent death of millions of people in an orchestrated campaign of mass murder somewhat more lacking in nobility.
Reply 34
Original post by thunder_chunky
Weren't they the first in WW1 to run bombings with their zepplins?


I think you're right; they tried to bomb London using zeppelins I believe.
Reply 35
Original post by jaadau121
Give Syria such weapons and it will be able to precisely target terrorists who are causing havoc, the same terrorists which are backed by Turkey, Sunni dictators in the gulf, America and low and behold America's lapdog, mistress and puppet Britain. Sound familiar? yep, just like Al qaeda was western backed in its early days.

BTW if WW2 happened now, Germany would also have advanced weapons, so would Japan who also has reached the nuclear threshold, so unless carpet bombings occured the allies would not win.


If you cannot see how times and warfare have changed, and equally just how incomparable the situations are, then you sir, are an idiot.
Original post by Drewski
Yes, but in those cases civilians weren't deliberately targeted.


And yet when we tried to target them they had a strong last line of defence:

Reply 37
Original post by Electric_Dynamo
I think they are rightly honoured. The squadrons were following 'higher command' and their orders which were deemed essential to the war effort at the time. Don't forget they risked their live's just like any other service man/woman.
Wheeling out the old Nuremburg defence? Nice.
Original post by Drewski
While this memorial is tentatively aimed at the 55,573 men of Bomber Command who never returned from their missions, permanent mention is made on the memorial to all who lost their lives, be they British, Commonwealth, French, German, Italian or Japanese. Servicemen and citizenry alike.

It is not triumphant. It does not glorify. It remembers. And hopefully makes sure we never forget.

The history channel will never forget, you can be sure of that.
Original post by Kolya
Wheeling out the old Nuremburg defence? Nice.


I believe that the people who carried out the operations deserved to be remembered, like I said in my previous post, they risked their lives for their country on orders from superior ranks. I dont agree with bombing at all, dont believe in war but I support our service people 100%.

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