14 year old murders his mother
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Its actually pretty scary to think that your own child could plan to and actually carry out an act which is something so sick minded and repungnant towards you.
www.readersdigest.ca/health/healthy-living/are-you-psychopath
Original post by GeneralOJB
I don't blame him to be honest. Mothers can be right pains in the asses sometimes, and don't deny that you've considered it.
www.readersdigest.ca/health/healthy-living/are-you-psychopath
Original post by .eXe
Also, for all those wondering what psychosis is, here is a definition:
Note the bolded text.
This kid made up lies to make it look like someone else had killed his mom and then he tried to say that his mom was a bad person. He clearly had not lost contact with reality because in reality he knew that what he had done was wrong and that he would have to face the consequences. He was not psychotic. Case closed.
Note the bolded text.
This kid made up lies to make it look like someone else had killed his mom and then he tried to say that his mom was a bad person. He clearly had not lost contact with reality because in reality he knew that what he had done was wrong and that he would have to face the consequences. He was not psychotic. Case closed.
I'ma take a stab in the dark that pschosis can be short lasting or situational,pschotic episode sounds familiar.
It would've been interesting trying to get him out of it.
Original post by chaza01
Was he known to be a bit off-beat? Did he have many friends? So mucked up.
Erm I don't know, because of the age gap, but I heard he was a bit odd from my friends who had brothers and sisters in his year.
There are and always will be freaks in humanity they are born ****ed up and maybe the enviroment they are raised in helps bring this out there is nothing we can do for them put them in jail and throw away the key (i.e till they die). Just think that he could be released in 15 years time under a new identity how would you feel about him living next door to you would you trust someones opinion that he is no longer a threat if your daughter brought him home as a new boyfriend? especially when he was judged to be sane by Physciatrists already when he clearly isn't or he wouldn't have murdered his mother would you trust them when it comes to his release. Just look at that Jon Venables he has been found with child porn and stuff on his computer after being given a new identity, like I say once a freak always a freak.
I watched horror films including Saw at the age of 14 and I don't feel any urge to go and kill my parents (or anyone else for that matter).
Video Games/Upbringing/Films/TV Shows etc... aren't enough to mess someone up like that you need them to be mentally ill in the first place we shouldn't ban violence on TV/Film etc... just because of the odd freak. Let's face it bad things/people happen now and again and we just have to deal with it as it comes along.
I watched horror films including Saw at the age of 14 and I don't feel any urge to go and kill my parents (or anyone else for that matter).
Video Games/Upbringing/Films/TV Shows etc... aren't enough to mess someone up like that you need them to be mentally ill in the first place we shouldn't ban violence on TV/Film etc... just because of the odd freak. Let's face it bad things/people happen now and again and we just have to deal with it as it comes along.
Original post by silent ninja
14 is not a child, it's not like a 10 year old (Bulger case) . Always blame the environment, "product of society" 
does anybody take responsibility for their actions anymore?
does anybody take responsibility for their actions anymore?The Bulger case is a perfect example of how the system failed. Those 10 year old children should never have been tried as adults, what a farce. They came from very troubled backgrounds and were obviously products of their conflicted environments. Do you really think if they came from happy homes where violence wasn't a part of everyday life then they would have learned to find pleasure in bashing someone's head in with bricks? The way a child behaves is in a very significant way determined by the environment they have been brought up in. Thanks to public hysteria, the right thing will never be done when it needs to.
If a 14 year old, according to conventional wisdom, does not even have the mind capacity to even be able to consent to sex, how then exactly would they ever have the brain capacity to be fully responsible for their actions? When they can't even agree to something so trivial and basic. Particularly when those actions are quite clearly caused by some sort of underlying mental issue.
How exactly has a young mentally troubled child through no fault of their own got got the same level of blame and responsibility as a fully cognitively developed, rational adult with full understanding and awareness of what negatively consequences their actions might bring?
Any psychologist knows that compared to adults technically all children can be considered mentally disabled and are brain damaged due to the lack of development in certain areas of the brain which impact on decision-making. They physically cannot fully understand the impact and negative consequences of their decisions.
Plus you need to research the implications determinism has for criminal justice.
Original post by .eXe
but rather I am against the idea that there was something inherent wrong with the boy. He perhaps had a lack of morality
Original post by .eXe
...or perhaps he was very cold-hearted and didn't respond to guilt. Neither are inherent flaws within a person...
Original post by .eXe
do you stop to give money to every single panhandler? Do you help out every single person in need? Do you cry for every single person who dies? We are all cold-hearted and indifferent on many levels...doesn't mean we will go and kill our own mothers.
Original post by .eXe
This kid demonstrated that he had no mental issue...he took the time to plan and commit a murder and then had the presence of mind to lie about "family issues" and tried to paint his dead mother as a bad person. This doesn't sound like a mentally conflicted person to me. He knew what he had done was wrong...otherwise why lie about things?
How exactly are you coming to the conclusion that his mother was a saint? What exactly are you suggesting the sane motive is for killing your own "loving mother"?
Original post by .eXe
In fact, he's like a kid who wants a certain toy really badly and will resort to all sort of antics to get it. Crying, kicking , screaming, etc.
Original post by .eXe
This kid committed a murder to get what he wanted...to recreate a fictional crime.
What sane person kills their own "loving" mother to recreate fictional crimes? That very idea, is absurd.
Original post by .eXe
Nothing inherent wrong with him. He's a danger to society and should be executed.
How exactly is a child who goes to great lengths to murder their own "loving mother" have NOTHING wrong with them? Have you ever heard of children who have nothing wrong with them randomly deciding to murder their loving family? Your logic is implausible and quite outlandish.Since you are calling for the murder of a child, I can only assume you are a poorly executed troll. Capital punishment is not a feature of any sane or civilised society, in particular for children. What you are suggesting is idiotic.
Original post by WelshBluebird
Any evidence that this was the result of the environment he was brought up in?
No?
Thought not.
No?
Thought not.
Since there isn't any logical alternative, yes. Thought so.
Original post by Stefan1991
Since there isn't any logical alternative, yes. Thought so.
Apart from the possibility of mental illness, which you yourself have mentioned?
Or apart from the fact that sometimes people do commit crimes, no matter what society does?
Etc etc.
You cannot just automatically blame society when there is nothing to suggest society was the cause.
there you go non muslim, western young teenagers no respect for parents....
Original post by Stefan1991
Those 10 year old children should never have been tried as adults, what a farce.
Why?
They were old enough to do what they did and know it was wrong, so they are old enough to be properly punished for that.
Original post by Stefan1991
They came from very troubled backgrounds and were obviously products of their conflicted environments.
They came from very troubled backgrounds and were obviously products of their conflicted environments.
Loads of people come from trouble backgrounds but do not torture and murder a 2 year old.
Original post by Stefan1991
Do you really think if they came from happy homes where violence wasn't a part of everyday life then they would have learned to find pleasure in bashing someone's head in with bricks?
Do you really think if they came from happy homes where violence wasn't a part of everyday life then they would have learned to find pleasure in bashing someone's head in with bricks?
There wouldn't have been as much of a probability, but it certainly would ave been possible. There have been clear examples in the past of people will pretty much perfect upbringings going off the rail.
Original post by Stefan1991
The way a child behaves is in a very significant way determined by the environment they have been brought up in.
The way a child behaves is in a very significant way determined by the environment they have been brought up in.
But ultimately, the person makes the decision themselves.
As I said above, loads of people from such backgrounds do not go on to kill people.
Original post by Stefan1991
If a 14 year old, according to conventional wisdom, does not even have the mind capacity to even be able to consent to sex, how then exactly would they ever have the brain capacity to be fully responsible for their actions?
If a 14 year old, according to conventional wisdom, does not even have the mind capacity to even be able to consent to sex, how then exactly would they ever have the brain capacity to be fully responsible for their actions?
1 - The age of consent thing is a complex one. Part of the reason for it is that we feel they cannot understand the total consequences of it (pregnancy, STD's etc), and that they would not be capable of bringing up a child on their own. Not that we don't think they can say yes or no to sex. Its a much more complicated issue than murder. Think of it. Murder has two sets of consequences. The victim dies, and the murderer is either punished or gets away with it. Sex has a lot more (as mentioned, pregnancy, STD's, abortions, having a kid, paying for that kid, miscarriages etc etc).
2 - 14 year olds know right from wrong. End of.
Original post by Stefan1991
When they can't even agree to something so trivial and basic.
When they can't even agree to something so trivial and basic.
As above, sex and its consequences are not trivial or basic.
Original post by Stefan1991
Particularly when those actions are quite clearly caused by some sort of underlying mental issue.
Particularly when those actions are quite clearly caused by some sort of underlying mental issue.
Not quite clearly at all.
Are you seriously suggesting every child who breaks the law has mental issues?
Original post by Stefan1991
How exactly has a young mentally troubled child through no fault of their own got got the same level of blame and responsibility as a fully cognitively developed, rational adult with full understanding and awareness of what negatively consequences their actions might bring?
How exactly has a young mentally troubled child through no fault of their own got got the same level of blame and responsibility as a fully cognitively developed, rational adult with full understanding and awareness of what negatively consequences their actions might bring?
14 year olds do fully understand their actions. And 10 year olds certainly do understand that killing someone = wrong.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by umarrehman187
there you go non muslim, western young teenagers no respect for parents....
Being a Muslim/not being western doesn't automatically mean parents will be respected.
Likewise, nor does not being a Muslim/being western mean parents won't be respected.
Original post by umarrehman187
there you go non muslim, western young teenagers no respect for parents....
right because all muslim, non-western teenagers respect their parents.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by WelshBluebird
Why?
They were old enough to do what they did and know it was wrong, so they are old enough to be properly punished for that.
They were old enough to do what they did and know it was wrong, so they are old enough to be properly punished for that.
They understand it's not like in cartoons?Are you seriously suggesting that if they FULLY understood they would ruin many peoples lives, including their own lives, becoming national figures of hate and thrown in prison for many years, they would have gone ahead with it? A 10 year old can hardly appreciate the short-term future, let alone the long term and ruining other peoples lives and their own lives.
Are you seriously suggesting that there was nothing wrong with them, nothing wrong with their upbringing or environment, despite coming from violent homes and traumatic childhoods, that MIGHT have affected how two 10 year olds one day casually decided to violently murder a young boy?
Are you seriously suggesting that mentally undeveloped 10 year olds. whose brains need about 15 more years to develop, whose brains are only what? 40% developed. Are FULLY capable of appreciating the ramifications and consequences of breaking abstract social constructs such as the law in the same way a developed rational adult can?
I'm sorry but that the STUPIDEST thing i've ever heard.
A child MIGHT know whether something is considered bad or "naughty". They do NOT understand how not eating all your greens is NOT as "naughty" as murdering a human being. Children do not understand different degrees of immoral actions, they only understand rule breaking and rule-bound moral reasoning.
A child only knows something is wrong if their parents and authority figures have fully drummed in the fact that it is VERY wrong. A child who is brought up in a home where violence is casual and commonplace, will NOT understand that violence is wrong.
Original post by WelshBluebird
Loads of people come from trouble backgrounds but do not torture and murder a 2 year old.
Original post by WelshBluebird
There wouldn't have been as much of a probability, but it certainly would ave been possible. There have been clear examples in the past of people will pretty much perfect upbringings going off the rail.
Original post by WelshBluebird
But ultimately, the person makes the decision themselves..
You obviously have very little understanding of how the universe functions. Every action is preceded by a cause. If you have no control over that cause, how can you be made fully culpable over it's consequence?Original post by WelshBluebird
1 - The age of consent thing is a complex one. Part of the reason for it is that we feel they cannot understand the total consequences of it (pregnancy, STD's etc), and that they would not be capable of bringing up a child on their own. Not that we don't think they can say yes or no to sex. Its a much more complicated issue than murder. Think of it. Murder has two sets of consequences. The victim dies, and the murderer is either punished or gets away with it. Sex has a lot more (as mentioned, pregnancy, STD's, abortions, having a kid, paying for that kid, miscarriages etc etc).
Again, that is probably the most stupidest thing I've ever heard. The negative possible consequences for having sex are so few and so trivial compared to the possible negative consequences for MURDERING someone. That is sooooo stupid. Those are not the consequences of having sex or not, those are the consequences of wearing a condom or not. You are trying to say MURDER is something a child is fully capable of making their mind up to do, whereas sex.... sex has FAR more difficult considerations regarding THAT decision
Original post by WelshBluebird
2 - 14 year olds know right from wrong. End of.
Adults don't even know what's right from wrong, how can you expect naive little children to? The question is not whether they know right from wrong anyway, the question is whether they are fully mentally capable of understanding the severity and ramifications of the actions they take, and whether they are mentally developed enough to be fully culpable for their actions. Children are quite clearly not...Original post by WelshBluebird
As above, sex and its consequences are not trivial or basic.
Original post by WelshBluebird
Not quite clearly at all.
Are you seriously suggesting every child who breaks the law has mental issues?
Are you seriously suggesting every child who breaks the law has mental issues?
Why else would they decide it's in their best interests to murder their own mother?Original post by WelshBluebird
14 year olds do fully understand their actions. And 10 year olds certainly do understand that killing someone = wrong.
If 14 year olds fully understand their actions, why do we not allow them to sign contracts? Why do we not allow them to join up to fight in the army? Why do we not allow them to decide to have something as trivial as sex? Why do we not allow them to have a pint? Why do we not allow them to vote? They fully understand everything don't they 14 year olds?
You're coming from some other planet where suddenly 14 year olds are independent fully developed rational actors, fully responsible for all the mistakes they make. They don't have fully working frontal lobes for god's sake.
Original post by WelshBluebird
Apart from the possibility of mental illness, which you yourself have mentioned?
Original post by WelshBluebird
You cannot just automatically blame society when there is nothing to suggest society was the cause.
I feel so sorry for the family!
I've noticed in reports that they have said that the boy copied what he saw. Personally, I think he must have some underlying mental health issue in order to carry out the murder. Yes, watching these films/programmes may have given him ideas and encouraged him, but I don't think that his actions can be reduced to simply 'copying' what he saw.
I've noticed in reports that they have said that the boy copied what he saw. Personally, I think he must have some underlying mental health issue in order to carry out the murder. Yes, watching these films/programmes may have given him ideas and encouraged him, but I don't think that his actions can be reduced to simply 'copying' what he saw.
Original post by umarrehman187
there you go non muslim, western young teenagers no respect for parents....
What a sick thing to say. I think you need to get some help if you have been brain-washed into thinking all western teenagers behave like this.
Original post by Stefan1991
That's not a "different" possibility, that's the same thing. Mental illness is in a large way caused by environmental, genetic and social factors.
If it's not the environment, what else would be the cause? I'd love to hear this new groundbreaking theory.
If it's not the environment, what else would be the cause? I'd love to hear this new groundbreaking theory.
Mental Illness obviously...
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