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Barts and The London Applicants 2012

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Reply 2880
Original post by Democracy

Original post by Democracy
This isn't true at all, it's certainly not what I've been told by several sources within the school...in fact some would say the trend is in a completely opposite direction away from what you've described.


what are your sources? Because surely what would be the point of having a separate cut off, is it just to see how many grads apply? Its very dodgy to focus on grads for a 5yr course as they most don't have the financial capability, more so now that its 9 grande and no loan available. I would have thought its the complete opposite to your sources.
Original post by Tripo
what are your sources?


I'd tell you, but that would be telling :wink:

Because surely what would be the point of having a separate cut off, is it just to see how many grads apply? Its very dodgy to focus on grads for a 5yr course as they most don't have the financial capability, more so now that its 9 grande and no loan available. I would have thought its the complete opposite to your sources.
No. The separate cut off for graduates applying to the A100 degree is for two reasons:

1) You cannot compare graduates to school leavers on the basis of the UCAS tariff. Most graduate applicants have fairly average A levels, and A*s did not exist in our day. It would be unfair.

2) You cannot compare graduates to other graduates on the basis of university results. Different universities have different weighting systems, modules etc. The minimum academic higher education entry requirement is a 2:1. It would be unfair to reject one candidate because they got 64% and accept another because they got 66% as these scores are not the same as A level UMSs. Again, it would be unfair.

So, from the above you can see that the only standardised method of discriminating between graduates is on the basis of UKCAT scores. That's why we're considered separately to school leavers. Actually until this year, all applicants to A100 (graduate or otherwise) were picked for interview on the basis of their UKCAT scores. Last year, the universal cut off (for grads and school leavers) was 642.5.

The university will (with some justification) assume that graduates will have done their research and realised the financial implications of applying to the A100 degree for 2012 entry. If people are willing to shell out the money (and believe me, I know people who are planning to remortgage their homes to do so) then the university won't care, so long as they get their fees paid. However, you're right, the number of graduates applying to A100 this year may well drop, though this won't be due to an alteration in BL policy, but due to the government's idiotic fees increase.
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 2882
Original post by Democracy

tbh i agree with what your saying, but i do think its highly unfair on school leavers, as how can they compete with someone who has a degree. obviously the medical school will pick the best people. at the end of the day this is uk not america. but i guess who knows what barts are planning. I guess it would be interesting to have a class from all sorts of degrees and backgrounds but this is what GEP was created for.
Reply 2883
btw did you get an interview for the a100 and when is it. Might see you there. Mines 11 on the 26th.
Reply 2884
Original post by chocolate_pies
Yes, that's what happens at most universities. GS and CT are usually not accepted as A or AS levels.


but how can you say that's making a 'more level playing field' in a fair way?
Tbh there isn't a 'fair way' to judge everyone, and there isn't a 'level playing field' because someone will always be a lil bit disadvantaged, just the way it is :erm:
Reply 2886
Original post by Democracy
I'd tell you, but that would be telling :wink:

No. The separate cut off for graduates applying to the A100 degree is for two reasons:

1) You cannot compare graduates to school leavers on the basis of the UCAS tariff. Most graduate applicants have fairly average A levels, and A*s did not exist in our day. It would be unfair.

2) You cannot compare graduates to other graduates on the basis of university results. Different universities have different weighting systems, modules etc. The minimum academic higher education entry requirement is a 2:1. It would be unfair to reject one candidate because they got 64% and accept another because they got 66% as these scores are not the same as A level UMSs. Again, it would be unfair.

So, from the above you can see that the only standardised method of discriminating between graduates is on the basis of UKCAT scores. That's why we're considered separately to school leavers. Actually until this year, all applicants to A100 (graduate or otherwise) were picked for interview on the basis of their UKCAT scores. Last year, the universal cut off (for grads and school leavers) was 642.5.

The university will (with some justification) assume that graduates will have done their research and realised the financial implications of applying to the A100 degree for 2012 entry. If people are willing to shell out the money (and believe me, I know people who are planning to remortgage their homes to do so) then the university won't care, so long as they get their fees paid. However, you're right, the number of graduates applying to A100 this year may well drop, though this won't be due to an alteration in BL policy, but due to the government's idiotic fees increase.


This. Utter agreement with everything you say, and this is entirely what I thought too. Unfortunately I will have to take out crazy bank loans to fund my (hopefully) A100 course as I am not eligible for a student loan because of my previous degree.
Original post by ViceVersa
Tbh there isn't a 'fair way' to judge everyone, and there isn't a 'level playing field' because someone will always be a lil bit disadvantaged, just the way it is :erm:


This is also very true. At this moment there are many rejected graduates with first class degrees and **** UKCAT scores who will be very disgruntled at the fact that graduates with 2:1s and good UKCAT scores managed to secure the interview spots. Someone will always be disadvantaged.

Original post by tianuk3
This. Utter agreement with everything you say, and this is entirely what I thought too. Unfortunately I will have to take out crazy bank loans to fund my (hopefully) A100 course as I am not eligible for a student loan because of my previous degree.


Yes, I agree with you. How will you be able to afford keeping up repayments on a commercial bank loan though? If you don't mind saying :smile:

Original post by Tripo
tbh i agree with what your saying, but i do think its highly unfair on school leavers, as how can they compete with someone who has a degree. obviously the medical school will pick the best people. at the end of the day this is uk not america. but i guess who knows what barts are planning. I guess it would be interesting to have a class from all sorts of degrees and backgrounds but this is what GEP was created for.


Because at the interview stage it doesn't matter what your qualifications or UKCAT score are. All that matters is how you perform on the day. The interview itself is a universally level playing field...the process of being picked for it isn't.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Democracy
This is also very true. At this moment there are many rejected graduates with first class degrees and **** UKCAT scores who will be very disgruntled at the fact that graduates with 2:1s and good UKCAT scores managed to secure the interview spots. Someone will always be disadvantaged.


:closedeyes:
Reply 2889
Original post by Democracy
Because at the interview stage it doesn't matter what your qualifications or UKCAT score are. All that matters is how you perform on the day. The interview itself is a universally level playing field...the process of being picked for it isn't.


Do you know anything about how Barts gives offers? Is the UKCAT/personal statement no longer taken into consideration post-interview?
Reply 2890
Original post by Democracy


Yes, I agree with you. How will you be able to afford keeping up repayments on a commercial bank loan though? If you don't mind saying :smile:



I have been working doing extra shifts on top of my full time job nearly every weekend since September in order to actually save some money up (as my full time hospital job allows me to pay for food, accommodation, bills and gives me not much excess).

I will also sell a lot of possesions to raise up some money and plan to look for some part time work whilst at uni if it is possible (depending upon workload) and of course working during holiday time too, and then play it by ear and adapt accordingly. I can take out a loan which will nearly pay for my first 4 years and pay it back over 10 years, and of course will get a bursary in my final year too, and I have already inquired about a maintenance loan and I am eligible for this to pay for my rent/food.

Sounds silly and unplanned, I know, but I have it under control, trust me ;-), do you mind me asking how you have financed it? (just incase there are any extra tips which will help :-) )

I haven't even got an offer/interview yet, so I am still hoping for that the moment.
(edited 12 years ago)
Because at the interview stage it doesn't matter what your qualifications or UKCAT score are.



This is not the case. The Barts admissions doc says:

" 11. Selection process and sequence

11.1 Applications are firstly reviewed within the Admissions Office to check that they meet the minimum academic requirements. Any applications which do not meet the academic requirements will be rejected at this point.

11.2 A100 and A200 applicants (not including graduates) who achieve at least 2400 overall in the UKCAT and meet our minimum academic entry criteria will be given a score for their UCAS tariff based on achieved/predicted grades for all tariffable criteria. The tariff and interview score will both be considered in determining which applicants will be offered places. "

Tbh there isn't a 'fair way' to judge everyone, and there isn't a 'level playing field' because someone will always be a lil bit disadvantaged, just the way it is


The systems at UCL and Imperial for example seem to be fairer. UCL looks at the whole applicant profile and then all that matters is how you perform on the interview day. At Imperiial interview offers are based on the content of your application and your performance in the BMAT
(edited 12 years ago)
Interview on the 2nd of Feb group A!
Original post by Palladium
Interview on the 2nd of Feb group A!


CONGRATULATIONS!!! :biggrin:

did you recieve an email today? also are you a grad?
Original post by Prasanth
Do you know anything about how Barts gives offers? Is the UKCAT/personal statement no longer taken into consideration post-interview?


In all honesty, I don't know about that. As far as I know the UKCAT score is only used for picking candidates for interview, but I could be wrong.

Original post by chocolate_pies
This is not the case. The Barts admissions doc says:

" 11. Selection process and sequence

11.1 Applications are firstly reviewed within the Admissions Office to check that they meet the minimum academic requirements. Any applications which do not meet the academic requirements will be rejected at this point.

11.2 A100 and A200 applicants (not including graduates) who achieve at least 2400 overall in the UKCAT and meet our minimum academic entry criteria will be given a score for their UCAS tariff based on achieved/predicted grades for all tariffable criteria. The tariff and interview score will both be considered in determining which applicants will be offered places. "


I'm sorry, I should have been clearer. What I meant in my answer to Tripo was that at the interview it doesn't matter what kind of qualifications you have i.e. whether you're a graduate or a school leaver, all that matters is how you perform. Therefore school leavers shouldn't have to "compete" with graduates (as he said they might).

Original post by tianuk3
I have been working doing extra shifts on top of my full time job nearly every weekend since September in order to actually save some money up (as my full time hospital job allows me to pay for food, accommodation, bills and gives me not much excess).

I will also sell a lot of possesions to raise up some money and plan to look for some part time work whilst at uni if it is possible (depending upon workload) and of course working during holiday time too, and then play it by ear and adapt accordingly. I can take out a loan which will nearly pay for my first 4 years and pay it back over 10 years, and of course will get a bursary in my final year too, and I have already inquired about a maintenance loan and I am eligible for this to pay for my rent/food.


Ahh cheers for the info, best of luck with it all :yy:

Sounds silly and unplanned, I know, but I have it under control, trust me ;-), do you mind me asking how you have financed it? (just incase there are any extra tips which will help :-) )

I haven't even got an offer/interview yet, so I am still hoping for that the moment.
For medicine? I haven't, I'm still hoping for an offer :p:
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 2895
Original post by Democracy
In all honesty, I don't know about that. As far as I know the UKCAT score is only used for picking candidates for interview, but I could be wrong.


Any idea how much weight the reference holds throughout the whole process? I started panicking a bit once I received my reference as it was full of grammatical errors; tut tut.:eek:

I was unaware that you were still waiting for an offer, have you had an interview then? What is your background? I just assumed you were a medical student at Barts :wink:
Original post by tianuk3
Any idea how much weight the reference holds throughout the whole process?


Don't know :no:

I started panicking a bit once I received my reference as it was full of grammatical errors; tut tut.:eek:
Logically, I would assume BL wouldn't punish you because whoever wrote your reference has grammar issues :tongue:

I was unaware that you were still waiting for an offer, have you had an interview then? What is your background? I just assumed you were a medical student at Barts :wink:
I'm a postgraduate at BL. Please note: postgrad, not undergrad :wink: :tongue:

I've been invited to the GEP selection centre and I'm currently waiting to hear back from the A100 programme.
Reply 2897
Original post by Democracy
Don't know :no:

Logically, I would assume BL wouldn't punish you because whoever wrote your reference has grammar issues :tongue:

I'm a postgraduate at BL. Please note: postgrad, not undergrad :wink: :tongue:

I've been invited to the GEP selection centre and I'm currently waiting to hear back from the A100 programme.


I'm sure you will get a A100 interview then, it wouldn't really make sense otherwise :-)

Yeh, I'm not too fussed about my course leader's reference now, just at the time I was slightly baffled it looked like it hadn't been proof read :angry:

Oh I calculated the difference in cost of the Graduate and Under Graduate course for a Graduate Student if anyone is interested? (Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I know they are simple calculations but easy to see difference):

Under Graduate:
Year 1:9000
Year 2:9000
Year 3:9000
Year 4:9000
Year 5:0 (NHS Bursary)

Total Tuition Fees: £36,000
Not applicable for Student Loan

Then a means tested maitenance Loan for each year

Graduate
Year 1:9000
Year 2:5535 (with partial NHS Bursary)
Year 3:5535 (with partial NHS Bursary)
Year 4:5535 (with partial NHS Bursary)

Total Tuition Fees: £25605
Applicable for Student Loan

Then a means tested maitenance Loan for each year
(edited 12 years ago)
Reply 2898
Original post by Palladium
Interview on the 2nd of Feb group A!


congrats! how many ucas points? :biggrin:
it is pretty much clear that barts have taken the very wrong road of using the tariff system.

Firstly, the tariff system itself is not fair or balanced itself so to base an entire selection process on this idea would only exacerbate the clear unfairness in the process. (I am not speaking from experience as I have received an interview). An individual who excels in sports to even international level will receive an advantage of 0 points (or even a Gold Duke of Edinburgh award) yet somebody who decides to take a sports leadership course or music will receive many more points.

Secondly, the predicted grade system at most schools is unfair as some schools will predict A*/A's when really other schools will correctly predict B's. (again I was predicted 4A*'s so this is not from experience).

All in all, it should be scrapped. (yes there has to be some method of selection and many other universities are unfair- but I really do think this is perhaps the crudest method).

I personally believe the UCL method of looking at the whole application and assessing candidates on these grounds is far better- but hey thats just my opinion.

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