I go to one and probably am therefore slightly biased, but I'd definitely say the grammar school system is good. In NI the 11+ is (well, was until last year) a lot more common, and there's very, very few private schools here, so people aren't paying crazy amounts for a decent education. I know people think it's unfair to separate students by sending them to specific schools based on ability, but I think this is a lot fairer than having streaming within the schools! It's not as if not getting into a grammar school means that you're unintelligent or that you're never going to do well or anything like that. I definitely think it helps people reach their potential to be in classes with people of similar abilities, instead of getting bored and losing interest if the work is too easy, or falling behind if other students in the class understand things much quicker. NI seems to get better overall GCSE/A Level results than the rest of the UK- surely that's a sign that the grammar school system works? It seems to make more sense than having to go to your nearest school as schools vary so much, and that's unfair on the students who really wouldn't be suited to attending, for example, a very big or very small school. The private school thing doesn't make much sense to me either. I'd also much rather do a test to get into a good school than have to pay!
I disagree! Teachers should only teach the class to pass the exam, whether pass be above U or C or whatever. The "smart" students can just learn the rest themselves using textbooks, the specification and other resources.
bring back? from where?
i think i missed this....
i thought they were still around? although they really are messing with the 11+ system. some schools have stopped using maths and only use verbal and non verbal reasoning which is a bit crap
I think it's okay if you have flexibility between the two.
Where I live in Switzerland they still have an ability tiered system. There are three levels; the real-schule, the secondar schule and the cantonale or hochshule (which is basically grammar school). But it isn't at all static; there are many opportunities for kids to move between them if they're doing well (or not so well, whatever the case may be), and it's worked for my little brother and sister. My little sister probably would have ended up bottom of the class if she was in the UK (she's bright, just not academic at all) but she's in the top of her class in the real-schule and getting better and better marks all the time (even in more academic subjects like maths). She did have the chance to go up to the next school, but decided not to. My brother started in the secondar schule after primary (but there is the option to go to the higher school directly after primary), then tried in his second year to get up to the cantonale schule, got in by the skin of his teeth, but failed the probationary period, so did the exam again a year later (and got better marks that time) and is now part the way through the probationary period and not struggling half as much as he did the first half. Being able to have extra years to prepare and try and get into higher schools (especially when a year can make a big difference) is really good.
But then, the attitude is also different here. It isn't a case of 'stupid' kids go to the lower school. It's just a different route (usually leading to an apprenticeship) depending on the sorts of things you're good at. Not everyone goes to university here either though, only a small proportion because vocational training is offered more and really valued.
It was silly in the past because there was no flexibility. My mum is really clever and ended up going to a secondary modern instead of grammar school because they just happened to move from an area without the 11+ to an area with it just before she went to secondary school, so she did the test with no clue what it was meant to be for and no preparation for it, and failed obviously.
I think having different tiers can be a good thing though. It can mean more academic kids get challenged more, and less academic kids can get more help and opportunities to do other things. I wish I'd gone to a grammar school . I was bored in school and look on it as a waste of several years of my life (particulary year 7-I complained the entire year that I was bored out of my brain and they just kept saying it would get harder, and it didn't-one whole year of my education completely wasted ).
I disagree! Teachers should only teach the class to pass the exam, whether pass be above U or C or whatever. The "smart" students can just learn the rest themselves using textbooks, the specification and other resources.
WHAT? Why would they have to need to do it 'themselves'?
1. Grammar schools are still about. You can apply to one, take the test and go to one if you want
2. Many schools already separate core subject groups by ability; even my piss poor comprehensive did
3. The 11+ is outmoded and can be quite detrimental to the progress of a child. I know someone that probably would have failed the 11+ but is now studying Law at KCL. You don't know how a kids going to turn out at age 11.
Chelmsford, Colchester x2, KE VI. What am I missing?
Westcliff x2 and Southend x2
There use to be a lot more.
Up until about 20 years ago there was near me:
Lougthon County High School for Girls, and
Buckhurst Hill County High School for Boys
The former is now the main comprehensive for Loughton - i.e. Roding Valley High School
and the latter is now a small private school for Sikhs - Guru Gobind Singh Kalsa College (I think that's right)
For a where I live, in the Golden Traingle of Essex, the only real chance I had to go to a grammar school when I was 11 (back in 2002) would have been Ilford County High for Boys (and it has it'ss counterpart Woodford for Girls).
Last edited by jammythedodger : 2 Weeks Ago at 23:26.
WHAT? Why would they have to need to do it 'themselves'?
It would help destroy that smart/lazy habit that develops around GCSE time with some students. Obviously, the way I put it was extreme but I feel the students who want top grades must put in work and effort for them rather than just remember what a teacher told them. Also there are too many A students around and this is why the top university places are so competitive and constantly increasing their offers even to the point the a level A* grade was introduced. No need to make exams harder, just teach everyone to a less adequate level and only students who deserve an A will take the initiative to learn the rest themselves.
I don't know, this idea may sound stupid but I just want a more realistic assessment of one's education/intelligence. The reason for this rant is mainly because I'm seeing people get AAA like nothing nowadays, makes the whole education system feel slightly devalued if anyone can get the top grades without too much effort.
I very much agree with this, I was the only student at my primary school to take the 11+ and I don't believe that there was much awareness about other oppurtunities outside the local comprehensive.
Having said that, by continuing the grammar school system, it could mean that talented kids that develop later are lost in the comprehensive system. I would be more in favour of improving comprehensives to the standard of grammars and private schools, but I realise thats somewhat unlikely.
Not really. People do transfer in to our grammar school from secondaries if they're "smart". A friend transferred in in 2nd year, most to do A-levels. They don't get lost in the system, really.
Good idea, Leicester doesn't have any state grammar schools, so I ended up at a bog standard comprehensive. Although, my dad lived in a very populated area, where the grammar took the top 30% of scores, he got in, however my mum lived in the middle of nowhere where the grammar could only support the top 10%, she didn't get in but beat my dad's score. As long as that is avoided it is all good
Not really. People do transfer in to our grammar school from secondaries if they're "smart". A friend transferred in in 2nd year, most to do A-levels. They don't get lost in the system, really.
I know people who did transfer into the grammar system, but I have to disagree with you. My mum taught at the comprehensive school I would have gone to if I had failed the 11+ and she often expressed frustration that much of her time was spent with the louder or less able students, while the quiet, intelligent students were left to their own devices and didn't get the attention they needed or deserved. I'm not saying that comprehensive schools don't produce intelligent students by any means, but I believe that the overall standard needs to be raised so there isn't any need to send one group of students off to a seperate school.
I didn't pass the 11+, but got into a grammar school for 6th form... it ruined me.
But doesn't it show that if you're really that clever you can perform well at any school.
I go to a grammar school and my brother goes to a secondary modern, and my opinion is that you can do well in either type if you are willing to work hard. The problem of less able people holding the more able people back happens in the individual classes, not the school as a whole, and even in grammar school the people less willing to learn can hold back the class. The solution is to split classes by ability, not necessarily whole schools.
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Re: Bring Back Grammar Schools...Yes or No??
. I was bored in school and look on it as a waste of several years of my life (particulary year 7-I complained the entire year that I was bored out of my brain and they just kept saying it would get harder, and it didn't-one whole year of my education completely wasted 
).
