Does any one of our glorious memberlings have any (pretty basic) knowledge of linguistics? I'd have your babies and adopt your parents, if you could help me with this question: How can a sound change phonemically without changing phonetically? If you have any examples, I also need some of those (from English/Latin/Greek/Sanskrit).
Satan's whiskers tipped me off to this:
It basically means that you can pronounce the same thing in two ways without changing its meaning.
As in there is a difference between the word pin and bin, so [p] and [b] are phonemes. But as it happens, in English, we actually pronounce the /p/ as [ph], but we don't use the difference in those particular sounds to differentiate words.
That isn't hugely clear, but I hope you get what I mean. I'll post examples if I can think of them.
It basically means that you can pronounce the same thing in two ways without changing its meaning.
As in there is a difference between the word pin and bin, so [p] and [b] are phonemes. But as it happens, in English, we actually pronounce the /p/ as [ph], but we don't use the difference in those particular sounds to differentiate words.
That isn't hugely clear, but I hope you get what I mean. I'll post examples if I can think of them.
Thanks, I learnt that afterwards. I never quite grasped the difference between phonemics and phonology (aside from the most obvious aspect of the use of square brackets as opposed to dashes!), but, as you say, it seems that a phonological change simply creates a new contrast, whereas phonemic change doesn't necessarily. Thanks for posting anyway.
Phew. Finally got all my class lists, changing degree etc sorted for next year. What a chore! Still waiting for those pesky exam results
Oh, fantastic! So you did decide to change? It sounded like a pretty good plan to me. Good luck with the results - try not to think about them, hard though it is!
Oh, fantastic! So you did decide to change? It sounded like a pretty good plan to me. Good luck with the results - try not to think about them, hard though it is!
Usually we would have the results by now, I don't know why it's taking longer than usual this year. I'm trying not to think about it...in between checking my student portal page for them 57,000 times a day
Yeah I did decide to change. So I'm now officially a "BA Philosophy and Defence" student
I'm also doing a separate "Diploma in Arts" alongside it to scoop up the random papers that I wanted to do but couldn't fit into my first BA and won't be able to fit into the second one so I'm pretty happy about that - and even with that I will still finish at the same time as or sooner than if I had stuck with the Bachelor of Defence/Grad Diploma in Philosophy plan, even if I decide to go part-time for a while
So I'm happy.
I'll be happier when I get those damn exam results!
Ah, Wikipedia is full of marvellous stuff. I've just been reading these alluring articles about Buddhist interaction with the classical world, which I'd have imagined might have been much more of an esoteric subject than it actually seems. A fascinating read:
Nice!! I'm reading about the form and function of the Greek subjunctive and optatives wrt Proto-Indo-European- that's fun too :P What could be better on a friday night
I agree with this. I don't think doing two BAs would sound any worse - it should show just as well that you're a fantastically well-rounded individual who's good enough to take two degrees in two different subjects.
I'm already thinking about my second BA. I'm hoping for Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic. They only do it at Cambridge though, which would make me something of a traitor. :s After that I think I'd like to go into Philology.
I desperately need to learn German, but I don't think I could possibly cram it into my head at the moment, which is full of the ludicrousness that is Greek principal parts.
If you wanted to stay at Oxford, the English MSt in 650-1550 (or the similar MPhil in Medieval Studies) would let you combine Old English, Old Norse and philology work (not to mention Old French, Medieval Latin, Medieval Welsh or Old Irish) and you'd be more likely to be funded.
I know what you mean about German - if I want to be a serious Classicist, I need it, but modern languages are just argh for me. Hopefully going to learn Italian (which should be a slightly easier language after finishing my Latin course) in the summer of 2010, though.
Also, salvete everyone! I'm basically a historian, but after doing Augustan Rome last year I fell in love with all things ancient and now just do ancient history and elementary Latin, with some medieval stuff thrown in when it's necessary.
If you wanted to stay at Oxford, the English MSt in 650-1550 (or the similar MPhil in Medieval Studies) would let you combine Old English, Old Norse and philology work (not to mention Old French, Medieval Latin, Medieval Welsh or Old Irish) and you'd be more likely to be funded.
I know what you mean about German - if I want to be a serious Classicist, I need it, but modern languages are just argh for me. Hopefully going to learn Italian (which should be a slightly easier language after finishing my Latin course) in the summer of 2010, though.
Also, salvete everyone! I'm basically a historian, but after doing Augustan Rome last year I fell in love with all things ancient and now just do ancient history and elementary Latin, with some medieval stuff thrown in when it's necessary.
Wow. I didn't even know that was possible, although I always thought it was strange that Oxford didn't run a course similar to ASNAC. But I suppose we don't do Architecture here either. To be honest, it's probably something of a pipe dream anyway. I have no idea how I'm really doing at the moment, but something tells me I'm not quite good enough for postgraduate study at 'Oxbridge' ... at least not yet.
German is one of my big frustrations - it's so annoying when over half of the references in your set books are in German! I'm only interested in having a reading knowledge of the language, to be honest, so it should be a little easier to learn. I'd just have to find the time. Apparently there is a 'German for Classicists' LASR course at the language centre, which I might look into one year. Or I might try learning German on my year abroad where I expect I'll have significantly less to do! And if you've ever done French and/or Spanish and can read Latin, you can probably already understand Italian when it's written down. At least I find I can almost always read my friend's translation pieces which isn't bad for someone who's never learnt a word of Italian.
And I can definitely relate to the interest in Augustan Rome. My whole Ancient History AS was basically focussed on that - we did modules on The City of Rome, which was a bit broader, but a good introduction to how the city functioned politically and socially and then one on Augustus himself and the last (my favourite) on Augustan Propaganda - lots of Horace and Virgil.
I'm trying to decide on which translation of the Odyssey to buy :/ but i cant decide between the Fagles, Fitzgerald or the Lattimore.
Any Ideas?
Ive read the Fagles three theban plays and liked it alot, but i hear very good things about the other two translators.
Any advice on which to go for?
I'm trying to decide on which translation of the Odyssey to buy :/ but i cant decide between the Fagles, Fitzgerald or the Lattimore.
Any Ideas?
Ive read the Fagles three theban plays and liked it alot, but i hear very good things about the other two translators.
Any advice on which to go for?
Wow. I didn't even know that was possible, although I always thought it was strange that Oxford didn't run a course similar to ASNAC. But I suppose we don't do Architecture here either. To be honest, it's probably something of a pipe dream anyway. I have no idea how I'm really doing at the moment, but something tells me I'm not quite good enough for postgraduate study at 'Oxbridge' ... at least not yet.
German is one of my big frustrations - it's so annoying when over half of the references in your set books are in German! I'm only interested in having a reading knowledge of the language, to be honest, so it should be a little easier to learn. I'd just have to find the time. Apparently there is a 'German for Classicists' LASR course at the language centre, which I might look into one year. Or I might try learning German on my year abroad where I expect I'll have significantly less to do! And if you've ever done French and/or Spanish and can read Latin, you can probably already understand Italian when it's written down. At least I find I can almost always read my friend's translation pieces which isn't bad for someone who's never learnt a word of Italian.
And I can definitely relate to the interest in Augustan Rome. My whole Ancient History AS was basically focussed on that - we did modules on The City of Rome, which was a bit broader, but a good introduction to how the city functioned politically and socially and then one on Augustus himself and the last (my favourite) on Augustan Propaganda - lots of Horace and Virgil.
I picked up http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jannachs-Ger.../dp/1413033490 in a fit of language-wanting a while back - it's quite good, and teaches German like Latin ("this is the dative..." ) rather than modern foreign languages at school ("this is how to have a conversation..." ) which is nicer for reading knowledge.
I'm trying to decide on which translation of the Odyssey to buy :/ but i cant decide between the Fagles, Fitzgerald or the Lattimore.
Any Ideas?
Ive read the Fagles three theban plays and liked it alot, but i hear very good things about the other two translators.
Any advice on which to go for?
Don't buy the Fagles! It's a killer to read, it really is. I'd go for the Martin Hammond translation. Lattimore would probably be alright, but I've found Hammond much better than Lattimore in the Iliad so far. I can only assume he'd be just as good translating the Odyssey.
Don't buy the Fagles! It's a killer to read, it really is. I'd go for the Martin Hammond translation. Lattimore would probably be alright, but I've found Hammond much better than Lattimore in the Iliad so far. I can only assume he'd be just as good translating the Odyssey.
I agree, having read Hammond's Odyssey (and Fagles').
I don't whether it was just me, but I found Lattimore's translation of the Oresteia like wading through a sewage decontamination plant -- barefoot! The back cover (or the New York Times thereon) decribes him as that "rara avis of our age, a classical scholar who is at once an accomplished poet" (or somesuch, that's just from memory) but the only rara avis [rare bird] I'd liken him to is a bloody dodo. It just seemed lifeless and stilted, compared to other translations I'd read. Again, my opinion may be worth less than a shaker of salt and/or his translation of the Odyssey may be magnificent.
any distinctive reasons, or is it just personal taste? =)
I was told to get his version of the Iliad for a Uni course and I thought it was fab so I got a coupld of other things by him as well. Personally I think he's great, but as you can already see from the replies here, everyone has their own preferences. Go which whatever version you find the most readable/enjoyable.
Classics discussion, revision and homework help.
Useful Resources:
Re: The Classics Society
My Hebrew is coming along nicely though.
