That is great but it is irrelevant because we are talking about the fact that some people are not allowed to openly express themselves and practice their religious beliefs or lackthereof.
Firstly, I think it is important for you to distinguish between your interpretation of Islam on the one hand and the actions of many of your fellow religious associations in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen. It is perhaps true that there is no outward measure of piety in Islam; however, I have heard from people living in Muslim-majority countries such as Saudi Arabia that they are practically forced to pray. Similarly, expressing a negative criticism of Islam will get you into trouble in probably in the Muslim world.
Furthermore, what about people who have left Islam but want to openly practice another religion? These people face a lot of oppression in almost all Muslim-majority countries.
Firstly, I think it is important for you to distinguish between your interpretation of Islam on the one hand and the actions of many of your fellow religious associations in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen. It is perhaps true that there is no outward measure of piety in Islam; however, I have heard from people living in Muslim-majority countries such as Saudi Arabia that they are practically forced to pray. Similarly, expressing a negative criticism of Islam will get you into trouble in probably in the Muslim world.
There is no singular Islamic Caliphate that I even belong to for you to impose what those countries do on me or Muslims who come from different countries.
You cannot be forced to pray because there isn't a government minder available to see if you attend your regular prayers or even Friday prayers. For instance according to the biggest survey on Muslim opinions, in Iran, considered a fundamentalist state, the importance of religion in daily life is put at 74% whereas in Indonesia, a secular state, it's at 99%, higher than Saudi Arabia infact.
Furthermore, what about people who have left Islam but want to openly practice another religion? These people face a lot of oppression in almost all Muslim-majority countries.
That what people say, typically parroting a singular incident that happened in the media and then apply it to everyone. I'd have to research to see if your claims are indeed are true but logically one would find that such an assertion would make no sense.
This has never happened not in even in Saudi Arabia.
Afghanistan :
''In March 2006, an Afghan citizen Abdul Rahman was charged with apostasy and could have faced the death penalty for converting to Christianity. ''
Algeria :
''On March 21, 2006, the Algerian parliament approved a new law requiring imprisonment for two to five years and a fine between five and ten thousand euros for anyone "trying to call on a Muslim to embrace another religion."
Iran :
15 Ex-Muslim Christians[38] were incarcerated on May 15, 2008 under charges of apostasy.
At least two Iranians - Hashem Aghajari and Hassan Youssefi Eshkevari - have been arrested and charged with apostasy in the Islamic Republic (though not executed), not for self-professed conversion to another faith, but for statements and/or activities deemed by courts of the Islamic Republic to be in violation of Islam
Yes they do, you cant argue with evidence I am afraid.
Originally Posted by Diaz89
You have to ask them. However the Grand Mufti of Egypt doesn't.
The Grand Mufti of a country that was only 20 years ago a thriving secular democracy probably wouldnt say anything like that publicly anyway
And for reference to support what I said (that most muslim scholars agree apostates should be punished):
Rahman, S. A. (1972). Punishment of Apostasy in Islam. Lahore: Institute of Islamic Culture.
Shafaat, Ahmad (February 2006). "The punishment of apostasy in Islam".
I dont hate Islam btw, I disaprove of all forms of organised religion.
''In March 2006, an Afghan citizen Abdul Rahman was charged with apostasy and could have faced the death penalty for converting to Christianity. ''
Spot the difference.
Algeria :
''On March 21, 2006, the Algerian parliament approved a new law requiring imprisonment for two to five years and a fine between five and ten thousand euros for anyone "trying to call on a Muslim to embrace another religion."
That's there problem, it has no scriptural backing.
Iran :
15 Ex-Muslim Christians[38] were incarcerated on May 15, 2008 under charges of apostasy.
At least two Iranians - Hashem Aghajari and Hassan Youssefi Eshkevari - have been arrested and charged with apostasy in the Islamic Republic (though not executed), not for self-professed conversion to another faith, but for statements and/or activities deemed by courts of the Islamic Republic to be in violation of Islam
Yes they do, you cant argue with evidence I am afraid.
So far, I've seen no death penalty, so my point still stands.
The Grand Mufti of a country that was only 20 years ago a thriving secular democracy probably wouldnt say anything like that publicly anyway
Why? And when was Egypt ever a "thriving secular democracy"
And for reference to support what I said (that most muslim scholars agree apostates should be punished):
Rahman, S. A. (1972). Punishment of Apostasy in Islam. Lahore: Institute of Islamic Culture.
Shafaat, Ahmad (February 2006). "The punishment of apostasy in Islam".
I dont hate Islam btw, I disaprove of all forms of organised religion.
I don't care about what Scholars or Imams say, the difference you keep missing out is that, there is no clergy in Islam, they have no executive power, they say what they say and whom ever hears it hears it. The power lies in the Judiciary and Executive.
That's there problem, it has no scriptural backing.
So far, I've seen no death penalty, so my point still stands.
Why? And when was Egypt ever a "thriving secular democracy"
I don't care about what Scholars or Imams say, the difference you keep missing out is that, there is no clergy in Islam, they have no executive power, they say what they say and whom ever hears it hears it. The power lies in the Judiciary and Executive.
You are still not getting it, your quran may say no to punishment of apostaphy but clearly a lot of muslims in powerful positions in Islamic states dont follow that word. Since you refuse to reason like a rational person let me ask you a question:
"If Islam only promotes peace why is it that it has a definition of a holy war( jihad), surely a peace lover would never even write about war if he himself was not a war-bringer?"
"How can Muslims tolerate other non-muslims if in the quran it says that there is only ONE correct path to God (i.e. Islam is the only way to salvation)?
If you look at my previous post I give a wikipedia link to Muslim conquests. It is truly a huge list of wars and conquests all in the name of Allah, and believe me your fellow muslims didnt conquer that land by asking nicely, they did it through mass killing and convertism. Where they couldnt outright murder the citizens they imposed huge taxes on non-muslims to force them to convert.
You are still not getting it, your quran may say no to punishment of apostaphy but clearly a lot of muslims in powerful positions in Islamic states dont follow that word.
That's non of my buisness, just because they're Islamic states it doesn't mean I will get automatic citizenship in them because I'm Muslim, this is a problem for the leaders to answer.
Since you refuse to reason like a rational person let me ask you a question:
"If Islam only promotes peace why is it that it has a definition of a holy war( jihad), surely a peace lover would never even write about war if he himself was not a war-bringer?"
Jihad is not permitted under the auspices of economic benefits, personal reputation or narrow nationalism. To engage in any form of warfare, it must be done in the aim to end tyranny and oppression towards Muslims. Hence if the world followed this model, there would be peace and Islam most definitely promotes peace.
"How can Muslims tolerate other non-muslims if in the quran it says that there is only ONE correct path to God (i.e. Islam is the only way to salvation)?
Dhimmi system
If you look at my previous post I give a wikipedia link to Muslim conquests. It is truly a huge list of wars and conquests all in the name of Allah, and believe me your fellow muslims didnt conquer that land by asking nicely, they did it through mass killing and convertism. Where they couldnt outright murder the citizens they imposed huge taxes on non-muslims to force them to convert.
Of course they did, I have totally no problem with that, but the difference between what they did and what the West did, is that they didn't abolish anybody's language, culture, heritage, they didn't forcefully convert anybody, they didn't exploit people, they provided sanctuary for persecuted people. They did not impose huge taxes.
You clearly werent brought up around muslims and dont live near a large muslim community otherwise you wouldnt say that. I try to tolerate others but I find Muslims in particular are very rigid in their ways and seem to be intolerant of others. It is nice to see that you are open-minded but the sad truth is that A LOT of muslims do behave like that...sorry, it's just true...and I'm not just talking of a few muslims either.
It's not surprising tbh, if you read about Islamic history 90% is how they attack and kill people, and those that lived in their occupied countries are forced to convert to Islam. Not to say that other religions were perfect but atleast they strived to create a kind of civilisation and not just dominate the world and treat people like dirt.
No, I do not live near a large muslim community however one of my best friends is muslim and we have managed to tolerate each other for the past ten years quite fine. She knows that I'm just faithless and quite happy that way and never has pushed me towards Islam although we have debated religion etc and I respect her views.
I personally am open minded and just feel everyone is free to their opinion you think muslims are 'rigid' and 'intolerant' okay, but just think what people may think of you from the outside?
By the way most religions have brought some degree of violence and have tried to convert people to their religion e.g European settlers who went to the US practically abused Native Indians and forced them into Christianity which they believed was the right path. Each person with different beliefs thinks they are right its natural for them to do that and this results in conflicts.
I just feel that you should be a little open minded and you might learn something that's just my opinion it was interesting reading yours I guess you haven't had a good experience with some individual muslims.
That's a bit like saying: my God said such and such to Muhammad, your God did no such thing, and yet they're somehow the same God. Well, no, there's a very qualifiable difference between them. One of them chose to say something to Muhammad, the other did not. This is not even starting to compare the differences in message.
Ofcourse there's differences in between them, all one has to do is read the Christian, Muslim and/or Jewish holy books , i'm not even going to argue that, but i believe that as much a difference there is, there are as much similarities. When i quoted the other person, I was referring to the fact that a person cannot stop believing in a "Christian God" then all of a sudden start believing in a "Muslim God" or vice versa - my point being that it is the same God.
Ofcourse there's differences in between them, all one has to do is read the Christian, Muslim and/or Jewish holy books , i'm not even going to argue that, but i believe that as much a difference there is, there are as much similarities. When i quoted the other person, I was referring to the fact that a person cannot stop believing in a "Christian God" then all of a sudden start believing in a "Muslim God" or vice versa - my point being that it is the same God.
How can it be the same god, when the Islamic God is unitarian and the Christian God is trinitarian? It's not like Christians believe the same things about God that Muslims do, but then they 'add on' a bit about Jesus also being God - the two concepts of God are fundamentally different.
It just shows how laughably poor organised religion is, that this mans only criteria was that religious dogma didn't contradict itself, and it took him a long time to even find a religion he thought was able to do that.
Discuss theological issues, which are issues inherent to a religion, not their political manifestations.
Re: Why I left Christianity...
I know it had no relevance 
