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Could someone please explain the Arab-Israeli Conflict to me?

Tl;dr - explain the Arab-Israeli conflict to me in unbiased terms.

Ok, as many of you know, I'm Jewish. My mum's always said to me that because we're Jewish we're supposed to support Israel. I had no quarrels with this for many years, but having noticed many anti-Israel arguments I decided that I should make up my own mind about the conflict. However, since the conflict dates back to 1945 there's just too much information for me to go through.

I've looked at a basic timeline for an outline of events since the late 1800s and have formulated a basic opinion from that.

From what I know, there have been Zionists around for years. Since the 1800s they've claimed that the holy land should belong to the Jews.

World War II came along and the international community voted almost unanimously that Israel should exist. That therefore means that it is legal under international law right? So why are people complaining that Israel exists illegally?

Ok, as for the recent conflict, from what I can see from the timeline, most of it has been instigated by the Palestinians or their supporters. Now, I can understand the reasoning behind it, but it has resulted in many civilian deaths. It seems to me that most of Israel's attacks have been in self-defence. I also heard stories about the PLO putting women and children in buildings which Israel was about to fire on and then claiming that they killed them on purpose. Is this true?

I heard about the dispute about the borders - apparently it would leave Israel unprotected?

I'd really like to know the history behind it and about the recent conflict - from an UNBIASED source please. I don't want to hear from super-pro-Zionists or super-anti-Zionists. I would like the bare facts.

Thanks.
(edited 12 years ago)
Seems like an interesting thread, subscribed!
Reply 2
You are not going to get a non-biased explanation on TSR. everyone has their agenda. I would suggest reading some books instead - Benny Morris's 'Righteous Victims' for example is a pretty hefty read but it is probably the most balanced account of the conflict you will get.
Modern Zionism hasn't existed since Hertzl and the World Zionist Congress in 1897.

He believed that the only way for the Jews to escape persecution was for them to have their own state - not necessarily Israel it self. The British government offered to give the Jewish people a big wedge of Uganda. They very almost accepted actually, but the Russian Jews shot it down.

He died in 1904, but the organisation carried on pushing various world leaders to help them... and Weizmann managed to pressure the British enough for the Balfour Declaration to be signed in 1917. Basically committing the UK to giving the Jews a Palestinian homeland.

To try and get Arab support as war loomed, we made the White Paper restricting Jewish immigration to Palestine.

After the war the Jews were killing British soldiers, Arabs were killing Jews, British soldiers were killing arabs... and so and so on. We didn't know what to do, so we handed responsibility to the UN - who created Israel.


That might be a bit patchy, and you probably know more than me - but that's my understanding of pre-Israel zionism.
Original post by karateworm
Modern Zionism hasn't existed since Hertzl and the World Zionist Congress in 1897.

He believed that the only way for the Jews to escape persecution was for them to have their own state - not necessarily Israel it self. The British government offered to give the Jewish people a big wedge of Uganda. They very almost accepted actually, but the Russian Jews shot it down.

He died in 1904, but the organisation carried on pushing various world leaders to help them... and Weizmann managed to pressure the British enough for the Balfour Declaration to be signed in 1917. Basically committing the UK to giving the Jews a Palestinian homeland.

To try and get Arab support as war loomed, we made the White Paper restricting Jewish immigration to Palestine.

After the war the Jews were killing British soldiers, Arabs were killing Jews, British soldiers were killing arabs... and so and so on. We didn't know what to do, so we handed responsibility to the UN - who created Israel.


That might be a bit patchy, and you probably know more than me - but that's my understanding of pre-Israel zionism.


Thanks that's very useful. Do you happen to know any of the background of the recent conflict?
Anyone else? There are so many threads about this - someone must have some info.
Reply 6
Original post by LaMusiqueEstMaVie
<Snip>

Spoiled it as I wrote a bit :tongue:

Spoiler



Hope this helps in a way :smile:
Just read history books. Israeli and Palestinian history differ obviously but you may find middle ground in the New Historians, who take a largely ambivalent stance on the creation of Israel and give proper consideration to both. You shouldn't discount biased information though, it is often biased for a reason.
Reply 8
On your specific questions:

Original post by LaMusiqueEstMaVie
World War II came along and the international community voted almost unanimously that Israel should exist. That therefore means that it is legal under international law right? So why are people complaining that Israel exists illegally?


No serious person argues that Israel has no legal right to exist. It is a sovereign state recognised by the United Nations, and most countries (although not by many countries throughout the Middle East and central Asia). There are people who see Israel as an illegitimate entity sitting on top of Palestinian/Arab land, that should be removed (whether peacefully or by force), but these are generally considered to be the lunatic fringe. Israel's occupation of Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese territory, on the other hand, is most certainly illegal under international law. That is what people usually mean when they talk about illegal activity carried out by Israel.

Ok, as for the recent conflict, from what I can see from the timeline, most of it has been instigated by the Palestinians or their supporters. Now, I can understand the reasoning behind it, but it has resulted in many civilian deaths. It seems to me that most of Israel's attacks have been in self-defence. I also heard stories about the PLO putting women and children in buildings which Israel was about to fire on and then claiming that they killed them on purpose. Is this true?


The PLO has renounced violence since the early 90s, and, even when they were a terrorist organisation, I've never heard about their use of human shields. Hamas, on the other hand, are a present-day terrorist organisation which governs the Gaza Strip. They are a theocratic group on the extreme right-wing of Palestinian politics, and inflict pain upon Palestinians even more than they do Israelis. They certainly use human shields - as they did during Israel's invasion (a mistake imo) in 2008-9.

I heard about the dispute about the borders - apparently it would leave Israel unprotected?


Not really. Obama has called for Israel to withdraw to its 1967 borders (as most of the world does), but has also agreed that this would likely see territorial exchanges of 1:1. In other words, Israel will be allowed to annex some of its illegal West Bank settlement blocs (providing strategic depth in the case of an unlikely invasion) in exchange for parts of Israel being incorporated into a Palestinian state. Also, the question of Israel's "security" is vastly overstated. Israel is a regional superpower with nuclear weapons and one of the most profound militaries of modern times. Furthermore, a Palestinian state would most probably be demilitarized (at least initially), and Israel has long-standing peace deals with Egypt and Jordan. In other words, the only real threat to Israel would come from Hezbollah in Lebanon, and Syria (as well as Iran - at a distance).

Ironically, however, I believe Israel's expansionist policies to be ultimately detrimental to its demographic intentions. If it annexed the whole of the Palestinian territories into Israel, then the Palestinians would subsequently engage in some kind of civil rights struggle - and thus undermine Israel's nature as a Jewish state (considering Palestinians would likely become a majority in due course). In other words, Israeli policy itself is inadvertently doing the most to undermine its demographic prospects.

---

This is my description of the conflict from a previous thread. Please consider, of course, that this is merely my own take: and that you'd need other perspectives to get an holistic view from all sides.

The foundations of the Israeli state date back to the 19th century, and can be seen in the only Utopian novel ever to become reality: Der Judenstaat by Theodor Herzl (1898), which called for an end to the Jewish diaspora, and the establishment of a state for Jews (in the face of persecution throughout Europe and the World). The Balfour Declaration of 1917 was the official British statement declaring the formation of a state for Jews in the British Mandate of Palestine (which had been placed under our supervision since the break-up of the Ottoman Empire). The Declaration also said that it should be "clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". Instead, Israel has been founded upon the original misconception, which was one of the early Zionist slogans: "a land without a people for a people without a land".

Once the State of Israel was proclaimed after UN Partition (which, like all other partitions, was idiotic), approximately 700,000 Palestinians were displaced from their homes in the 1948 war - along with massacres such as those seen at Deir Yassin. Numerous soon-to-be Israeli politicians committed several war crimes during this initial forced displacement of the Palestinian population, and this is a trend that can be seen through many of the later conflicts. I do of course have disagreement with the Arab side during this initial war too, especially considering they were the instigators of it. It was certainly in error of the Palestinian population to have so much faith in the Arab armies that directly confronted the emerging Jewish state, with the attention of abolishing a new member state of the United Nations (regardless of whether its creation was a mistake or not). Either way, a ceasefire was ultimately agreed, with Egypt occupying the Gaza Strip, and Jordan occupying the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Many of the Palestinians who were displaced were forced into refugee camps in either these areas, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and other countries. These people still have not been permitted the fundamental right to return to the homes they were forcefully expelled from. The Israeli government does not want to compromise on this moral question (and, with the 'Palestine Papers', wouldn't even agree to a final settlement despite the PA abandoning the 'right of return' question). A resistance movement, committed to fighting for the rights of the Palestinians for self-determination, was formed: the PLO. It operated mainly in Jordan until 'Black September' (1970-71), when King Hussein saw it as a threat to the Jordanian monarchy, and expelled it.

All of this may raise the question of whether Israel has any legitimacy at all. The problem with this is that the same standard must be applied to all nation-states. Pakistan, for example - another artificial state, carved up through British partition - was founded upon the deaths of thousands of Hindus, and its present actions hint at a sustained anti-Hindu sentiment. But it does not necessarily follow from this that Pakistan should be removed as a result. Another example would be the United States, which was essentially built on the lives of millions of indigenous American-Indians (a similar thing can be said of almost all the South American countries which have just unilaterally recognised Palestinian independence). In other words, the imprudent, and vile, formation of particular states does not mandate their destruction.

Anyway. In 1956, Israel contributed forces to the Suez War (along with France and Britain), after President Nasser's nationalisation of the Suez Canal (this being the Second "Arab-Israeli" War). And in 1967 (probably the most crucial year, with regards to the present), Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on the Arab armies that had lined up on its border (who once again had the stupid and illegal intention to try and abolish a member state of the United Nations, which Israel then was). Consequently, Israel occupied the Sinai Peninsula (until 1981, after the 1979 Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt, a peace agreement lasting to the present day - though precarious in the face of the recent revolutionary change in Egypt), the Golan Heights (Syrian territory), the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. The latter four - which, remember, contain a very high number of Palestinian refugees, their families, and other Palestinians - are still militarily occupied by Israel to the present day. This has seen the contruction of Israeli settlements, in an attempt to further displace the Palestinian population, and the pursuit of 'Eretz Yisrael Ha-Shlema' (or 'Greater Israel': a notion supported by PMs Menachem Begin, and Yitzhak Shamir; Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel's current PM, is Likud's immediate successor to these expansionists). These actions have mainly occured with hope of satisfying the demands of Orthodox Jewish zealots. All of this activity is illegal under international law.

1973 saw the Yom-Kippur War, which was essentially an attempt by Arab armies to regain the territory that Israel occupied in 1967, to no effect. In 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon with the intention of destroying the PLO (carrying out, with its Phalangist Christian proxies, a murderous assault on the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps). It failed, and remained in occupation of the south of Lebanon until 2000 (and still occupies the Lebanese 'Shebaa Fields' to this day). In the early 1990s, mutual recognition between Israel and the Palestinians became apparent. The PLO has recognised the State of Israel - and renounced terrorism - ever since, and, in spite of successive Israeli governments masquerading through the 1991, 1993, 1999-2001, 2005-2008, and 2010 "negotiations" as pro-peace, pro-two state solution etc. they have never really abandoned their expansionist projects. This is largely suggested by the fact that no Israeli government has put forward a single plan with the intention of ending its illegal occupation. The Israeli hierarchy is permeated by religious bigots (e.g. the Shas faction), nationalist xenophobes (Avigdor Lieberman, among others) and war mongering ex-generals, and as long as this is the case, the right-wing forces of Likud and Kadima will continue to satisfy them - committing crimes that hurt both the Palestinian and Israeli people. In 2006, Israel again invaded Lebanon with the intention of destroying Hezbollah. It failed. In 2008, Israel invaded Gaza with the intention of destroying Hamas. Yet again, it failed: at a grave human cost. No Israeli attempt to wipe away its enemies has been conclusive, and its occupation of other peoples' territory (while attacking them with fighter jets and white phosphorous) has done little, except put its own citizens' lives in more danger.

In addition, Israel continues to demolish homes in the Palestinian territories. It has constructed numerous barriers and checkpoints. These exist deep inside the West Bank and East Jerusalem (sometimes cutting over 20 miles in), usually separating Palestinians from their farms and water supplies. Where global consensus supports a two-state settlement, there are elements on both sides (mainly religious) which make this very improbable.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Suetonius

Original post by Suetonius
x


The key difference between Israel and the other examples, Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Americas etc. is that Palestinian refugees who lived within current day Israel were not compensated or given repatriation rights whereas European Jews are subsidised by Israel to move there. This isn't the case with the other countries you mentioned, although the European settlers currently rule the US for example, Native Americans still have full US citizenship and are even compensated by giving them special privileges, e.g. exempt from property tax, subsidises, hunting rights, casino licenses etc. on Indian settlements.
Original post by Suetonius
X


Oh wow that was a lot! Thank you! Sorry, it took me ages to read through - I was doing it bit by bit to take it all in (I've had exams too). I did mean Hamas, yes, not the PLO - my mistake.

I think I've come up with a definite stance on this now: I'm pro-Israel to the extent that I believe there must be a Jewish state. The fact that it has already been established in Israel suggests to me that tearing it down and trying to create it somewhere else now would simply lead to more conflict.

As far as I can see from your response, there are faults on both sides but I'm definitely leaning towards Israel. It seems that Israel has been encircled by its enemies and is mainly acting in self-defence (although I see from your post that there are definite issues with occupation, etc but I assume their argument for that is security reasons). The only way this can be resolved is for some sort of two-state peace deal (and even then there will be emnity) but that is unlikely to happen.

Is that a fair analysis?
Reply 11
To be honest I think some of the posts here have tried to explain it really well but I think the main root causes of this conflict are with the British sadly, they promised the land to BOTH the Arabs and Jews, this was inevitably going to lead to disaster, this fact is often overlooked in recent times.
Reply 12
1. hilter kills jews 1940-45.
2. jews say they need a country of their own. -48
3. UN says 'we'll let Britain handle this' 1947-48
4. jews say '**** you, we are taking the land God promised us.' 1948 CREATION OF ISRAEL
5. native people (palestinians) are displaced from their homes and are angry about this.
6. other arab nations peeved at another religion taking their land so they step in on the palestinians' side. 1948 Arab-Israeli War 1948-49
7. Arabs attack Israel and fail. Israel expands. 1949
8. Majority of the western world accept Israel as a country. 1948-present
9. Britain, Israel, France attack and occupy Gaza strip after Egypt take the Suez canal from UK. 1956
10. Israel attacks Arab airfields and takes more land from arab nations. (golan heights, west bank, sinai). Six Day War 1967
11. Egypt/Syria attack Israeli targets, quite successfully, during Jewish holiday. Israel eventually wins, but makes some concessions (see camp david accords, 1978) Yom Kippur War 1973
12. Tensions still very high in region. Arabs don't like Israel, Israel don't like neighbors.
How Did Israel Get Its Current Borders?
By Matitiahu Mayzel

May 13, 2002

Mr. Mayzel is a professor of history at the Cummings Center for Russian and East European Studies at Tel-Aviv University.

Three factors shaped the borders of present-day Israel: the British mandate on Palestine; the outcome of the Israeli War of Independence of 1948-1949 (the first of the Arab-Israeli wars of the 20th Century); and the consequence of the Six Day War of 1967 (the third Arab-Israeli war).

The oldest of the borders of Israel is the one with Egypt. This was established in 1906, when the Ottoman Empires ruled almost the whole area of the Middle East (as distinct from the Near East) on which a number of states were later established. At that time the area was part of the Vilayet (a large administrative unit) of Damascus, in which the Sanjaq (a smaller administrative unit) of Jerusalem has a special status. Lord Cromer, the British administrator of Egypt who ruled the country, was worried by the possibility of Turkish military forces being deployed in the Sinai peninsula. In 1892 Cromer therefore proposed a border line to bring the Sinai under British control. The line would go from a point on the Mediterranean coast of Sinai east of El-Arish, in southeastern direction to the Gulf of Aqaba at the northwestern point of the Arabian Peninsula. After some years and some negotiations the Turkish government agreed in 1906 to the British modified proposal, a line from Rafah southward to Taba, somewhat less than 10 miles west of Aqaba. This borderline was not changed after World War I, and remained the border between the British mandate in Palestine and Egypt.

During World War I a number of plans appeared regarding the borders envisioned for the Middle East once the Ottoman Empire was defeated. These ranged from an Arab kingdom in almost the whole of the Middle East to a variety of plans dividing the region between Great Britain, France, and the Russian Empire, the most famous of which was the Sykes-Picot agreement (1916). After the region was conquered by the British army in 1918, Great Britain and France reached an agreement on dividing the Middle East, where France took Syria and Britain took what become Palestine, Transjordan and Iraq. In 1920 Britain was assigned a mandate for Palestine and Transjordan, approved by the League of Nations in 1922, which included a specific task of preparing a Jewish national home in Palestine (in accordance with the Balfour declaration). The border between Palestine under the British control and Syria under the French control was negotiated by the two powers and concluded in 1923, establishing the northern border of Palestine.

The eastern border of Palestine was determined the same year. Transjordan was separated from Palestine, established within the mandate as an autonomous area under the Emir Abdullah. The border thus ran through the middle of the Jordan river separating the two countries, and southward along the lowest line of the dry riverbed (Wadi) between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba. (Click here to see a map showing the British Partition of 1946.)

A great change came in 1947: Palestine was further divided in the Partition Plan between Arabs and Jews approved by the United Nations General Assembly (29 November). According to this plan Palestine was divided into Jewish and Arab states, each composed of three areas contiguous in "choke points," while Jerusalem was to be put under international control. Immediately a war started between the people of Palestine, Jews and Arabs, and in less than three weeks the Arab League announced its rejection of the Partition Plan. Furthermore, with the declaration of the State of Israel on 15 May 1948 the neighboring Arab states (and also Iraq) invaded the country. The war was transformed then from a war between the two national communities of the country into an invasion by foreign armies in an attempt to prevent the creation of Israel while at the same time not supporting the Palestinian national aspirations. In the spring of 1948 armies of Arab states occupied most of the area previously under the British mandate, including much of the area assigned to the Jewish state. The newly created army of the state of Israel, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), fought against the regular invading armies as well as forces of the local Palestinian population. The dynamics of the war caused the lines separating the two proposed states to disappear, and the new lines were determined mainly by military success and demographics. (Click here to see a map showing the borders in 1949.)

When the fighting ended early in 1949, the situation was as follows: In the north of the country the invading Lebanese army was repelled, IDF units even crossed into Lebanon and then retreated, and the old border of 1923 was restored. The Syrian army stood on some points a short distance west of the previous border, i.e. within the area of Israel. In the south, the Egyptian army was repelled and pushed back from most of the area, and IDF forces even entered the Sinai peninsula. The southern coastal plain, around the town of Gaza, remained in Egyptian hands. The most complicated situation was in the center of the country. Most of the mountainous area remained in the hands of the army of Transjordan and their Iraqi allies. Only a narrow "corridor," on both sides of the main road to Jerusalem, was held by the IDF. In Jerusalem the western part, in which there was mainly Jewish population but also some Arab sections, was occupied by Israel, while the eastern side, including the Old City and the many holy sites, came under Jordanian rule.

The military outcome of the war was reflected in four cease fire agreements, negotiated with the encouragement and under the auspices of the UN. The first was between Israel and Egypt, signed on 24 February 1949, the second between Israel and Lebanon (23 March 1949), then Israel and Jordan (3 April 1949) and the last one Israel and Syria (20 July 1949). By these agreements some small portions of land were exchanged, an international mechanism for maintaining the agreements was established, in the form of a UN force of observers (UNTSO) and a bilateral committee also under UN chairmanship. Both on the Israeli-Egyptian border and the Israeli-Syrian border there were a few Demilitarized Zones, in which the presence of military forces was forbidden. In its southern part, Israel remained within the lines of Palestine under the British mandate.

Thus was formed the strange border line of Israel, which was, in terms of international law only a temporary cease fire line. Within the 1949 boundaries the area of the State of Israel totalled 20,500 square kilometers, 450 km long, 135 km wide at its widest point and 15 km at its narrowest point, with a narrow corridor to the capital Jerusalem, which was a divided city.

Its temporary basis notwithstanding, this border became the internationally recognized boundary of Israel. Already in December 1948 Emir Abdullah of Jordan proclaimed himself King of Palestine and annexed the area west of the river Jordan, hence known as the West Bank. But this was not recognized by the international community (except by Britain and Pakistan). A narrow strip on the southern coastal plain, from Rafah to north of Gaza city, remained under Egyptian rule, but was never incorporated into Egypt or annexed by it. Both in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank were established camps for Arab population who left the area now Israel. Smaller camps were established in Lebanon, Syria, and in Jordan on the east side of the river.

This situation remained without change for 19 years, except for a short period in 1956-57 on the Israeli-Egyptian border. In the Sinai Campaign Israel defeated Egypt and conquered the Sinai peninsula for the period from November 1956 to January 1957. Israel, however, withdrew to its old border, and a new UN mechanism for maintaining the peace on this line was created: the UN Emergency Force (UNEF).

The most important, and greatest change in the borders of Israel came in 1967. It began in May 1967, when the Egyptian army entered Sinai. This move was perceived by Israel as a very grave threat to its very existence. After the international community failed to resolve the crisis, and being under great military threat, Israel went to war on 5 June. The Egyptian army was defeated in two days, and in 4 days IDF forces stood on the eastern bank of the Suez Canal. Jordan joined the war a few hours after Egypt, and was likewise defeated and the whole West Bank was taken by Israel as were Jerusalem, the Old City and the holy places. A war with Syria followed, and in 2 days the Golan heights were taken by the IDF. Thus in 6 days Israel defeated three Arab states, took the vast area of the Sinai, took the West bank and the Golan heights.

The Six day War caused profound changes in the political and military structure of the Middle East. It compelled the Arab states to accept the existence of Israel as a political reality which they could not destroy or ignore. It brought new territories under Israeli control; it brought the entire Holy Land (including Jerusalem) under Jewish-Israeli rule; and it also brought a large Arab-Palestinian population under Israeli rule. At first, most of these changes were not perceived as permanent by the Israeli government. After long deliberations for a number of days the Israeli government accepted a decision (which was kept secret) in which Israel was ready to give back the Sinai and the Golan heights in return for a peace agreement. The question of the West Bank remained open. However a Summit meeting of the Arab states in Khartoum (Sudan) in August 1967 established three No's: no peace, no recognition and no negotiations with Israel, and support of the claims of the Palestinians. The UN actively attempted a solution, and in November 1967 the UN Security Council passed its Resolution 242 which, inter alia, called for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Arab territories occupied in the war, and the right of all states [in the Middle east, including Israel] to live in peace within secure and recognized borders.

The period of Israel's expanded borders lasted until 1973. After some years of intensive combat clashes - the "war of attrition" of 1968-1970 - and a war in 1973 between Israel and Egypt and Syria, came the era of peace agreements. It started with the visit of the Egyptian president Anwar Sadat to Israel in 1979, and was concluded with a peace agreement. Israel returned the whole of Sinai to Egypt in 1982, thus returning to the border delineated in 1906. The Gaza Strip, however, remained under Israeli rule. The border on the Golan Heights was changed only slightly, in a disengagement agreement with Syria in the wake of the 1973 war.

In 1993 the government of Israel, under Mr. Rabin, signed an agreement with the leader of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) Mr. Yasser Arafat, known as the Oslo Agreement, by which the greater part of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were given to the control of the Palestinian Authority. A year later a peace agreement was signed between Israel and Jordan. Israeli military presence in Lebanon, which started in June 1982 came to a complete end in 2000, returning the border line of 1923 to its old recognized and mutually accepted status.

Thus in 2002 Israel still has to reach an internationally accepted agreement on her border with Syria on the Golan heights, and to resolve the thorny question of the Palestinian territory of the West bank and Gaza.


Source: http://middleeastfacts.com/Articles/how-did-israel-get-its-current-borders.php

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