[Miracle Day]

I just had a heated argument with some guy, and my frustration is what angered me to write this. He told me, for accepting gays and being cool with them, and treating them as I would anyone else I'm not a proper Christian - infact probably not one at all - because the Bible condemns them. He says we should all use Jesus as a model human.

I tell him about Lady Gaga born this way and he was adamant people aren't born gay, but they're brought up fooled.

I then ask how homosexuality can be a choice, when homophobic areas have higher suicide rates and by his logic surely they could just change back to being straight if it was a choice. He then says he wishes more homosexuals would commit suicide, and that homosexuals don't think they can turn straight.

So I tell him, Jesus tells us to love all.. so saying that is going against Christianity etc. Then he quotes Sodomy and Gamora.

He's obviously not just a closed minded pre-teen.. he knows his stuff. I just can't comprehend how people can believe it.

If any of you believe it's a choice.. help me out and tell me why please.

Edit: I'm just so angry right now.. sorry.. someone restore my faith in humanity

[MonkeyMan2009]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I just had a heated argument with some guy, and my frustration is what angered me to write this. He told me, for accepting gays and being cool with them, and treating them as I would anyone else I'm not a proper Christian - infact probably not one at all - because the Bible condemns them. He says we should all use Jesus as a model human.

I tell him about Lady Gaga born this way and he was adamant people aren't born gay, but they're brought up fooled.

I then ask how homosexuality can be a choice, when homophobic areas have higher suicide rates and by his logic surely they could just change back to being straight if it was a choice. He then says he wishes more homosexuals would commit suicide, and that homosexuals don't think they can turn straight.

So I tell him, Jesus tells us to love all.. so saying that is going against Christianity etc. Then he quotes Sodomy and Gamora.

He's obviously not just a closed minded pre-teen.. he knows his stuff. I just can't comprehend how people can believe it.

If any of you believe it's a choice.. help me out and tell me why please.

there haev been several of these posts . . . just search for it... it may be a mixture of both (nature and nurture)

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by MonkeyMan2009)
there haev been several of these posts . . . just search for it... it may be a mixture of both (nature and nurture)

I don't really care which of those it is, just the fact he thinks people can decide to be gay. If Homosexuality was eithero f those, it's still not a choice

[MonkeyMan2009]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I don't really care which of those it is, just the fact he thinks people can decide to be gay. If Homosexuality was eithero f those, it's still not a choice

perhaps not being attracted to the same sex, animals, children etc, but acting on the attraction (i.e. physical) is a choice and it is this choice which the religous types object to.

[Gales]

Blahhhhhh, I'm gay. I get it all the time, it's easier to ignore it really.

EDIT: Thanks for the negs guys, but if you'd let it get to you and get angry every time someone said it, it'd only make you feel worse.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by Gales)
Blahhhhhh, I'm gay. I get it all the time, it's easier to ignore it really.

Basically without going into detail, my cousin tried to top herself because of it

[Freiheit]

I think the person you argued with takes the "free will" approach especially if he's a christian meaning he believes a person can decide to enter a relationship with a male or female as they wish. Eg: heterosexuals chooses to enter relationships and marry the opposite gender although nothing stops them from entering relationships with people of their own gender. Some people like blondes/non-blondes, some like males some like females.

[gagaslilmonsteruk]

Ever listened to the Christina Aguilera song 'Can't Hold Us Down'? I know its meant to be about something completely different, but my interpretation is that you cannot let someone get you down. Actually a lot of other songs from that album in particular like 'Fighter' and 'Beautiful' could be seen in this way too. The main thing is, don't let this guy get you down. I think that each individual in the world was created to be the way they are for a reason (which I guess I will never know), and we should be proud of who we are.

[Gales]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Basically without going into detail, my cousin tried to top herself because of it

I know it can be difficult, and I found it really difficult to cope with homophobes at first. You (unfortunately) get used to it and learn to live with it I guess. I hope your cousin's ok

[ROYP]

It's certainly not a conscious choice. That is to say, I highly doubt anyone has every just 'decided' to be gay and that's that...

With regards to the whole nature vs nurture thing I know nothing about anything but my gut feeling is that there is no 'homosexuality' gene and it is to do with environmental factors, but as I said I don't really know anything so feel free to bash my opinion and call me stupid.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by ROYP)
It's certainly not a conscious choice. That is to say, I highly doubt anyone has every just 'decided' to be gay and that's that...

With regards to the whole nature vs nurture thing I know nothing about anything but my gut feeling is that there is no 'homosexuality' gene and it is to do with environmental factors, but as I said I don't really know anything so feel free to bash my opinion and call me stupid.

If it's not a conscious choice surely it's not a choice?

Thanks for your input anyway

[Gales]

(Original post by ROYP)
It's certainly not a conscious choice. That is to say, I highly doubt anyone has every just 'decided' to be gay and that's that...

With regards to the whole nature vs nurture thing I know nothing about anything but my gut feeling is that there is no 'homosexuality' gene and it is to do with environmental factors, but as I said I don't really know anything so feel free to bash my opinion and call me stupid.

I really don't think it's environmental, otherwise you wouldn't get gay people in the Middle East and so on, would you?

[ilovelabradors]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I just had a heated argument with some guy, and my frustration is what angered me to write this. He told me, for accepting gays and being cool with them, and treating them as I would anyone else I'm not a proper Christian - infact probably not one at all - because the Bible condemns them. He says we should all use Jesus as a model human.

I tell him about Lady Gaga born this way and he was adamant people aren't born gay, but they're brought up fooled.

I then ask how homosexuality can be a choice, when homophobic areas have higher suicide rates and by his logic surely they could just change back to being straight if it was a choice. He then says he wishes more homosexuals would commit suicide, and that homosexuals don't think they can turn straight.

So I tell him, Jesus tells us to love all.. so saying that is going against Christianity etc. Then he quotes Sodomy and Gamora.

He's obviously not just a closed minded pre-teen.. he knows his stuff. I just can't comprehend how people can believe it.

If any of you believe it's a choice.. help me out and tell me why please.

Edit: I'm just so angry right now.. sorry.. someone restore my faith in humanity

First of all, let me say you could have found a better argument: Lady Gaga? WTF?

However, I believe that being gay is not a choice. In fact it must hard for someone to accept that they're attracted to the same sex. There are lots of things on the line. What our parents expect from us, ourselves and just society in general! People may come to a time when they genuinely don't care about other people say but no one is born like that IMO. We sort of learn not to care, but that's a different thing. So, yeah, if being gay was a choice no one would bother, really. And if your friend really like women, he should know this is not a choice. Or has he by chance chosen to like women?

About the Jesus roll model well all I have heard of Jesus (and I was a christian for several years) was that we are all the same, we are all their sons and we all need to respect each other and FORGIVE.

So, why would we comdemn someone that hasn't even done anything wrong if Jesus tell us to FORGIVE the most abnoxious stuff man is capable of?

Oh and he being religious is more UNFAIR that non religious people. Ok... This is why I don't like to discuss religion.

U said he's not stupid, but he clearly don't want to accept the possibility that he is wrong. To me that is being stupid, however, u can't really argue with people like this because the this is basically: "This is the way I say and that is the end of it" and you can't make this people learn, really...

But don't bother. People like that hardly change. Unless their son happens to e a gay (and this should happen to any parent that is narrow minded).

[somethingbeautiful]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I don't really care which of those it is, just the fact he thinks people can decide to be gay. If Homosexuality was eithero f those, it's still not a choice

I think they're the kind of people who would like homosexuals not to act on their desires. They see the act as the choice and conflate the act with homosexuality itself. E.g dating or having sex with a person is a choice that one can make regardless of sexual-orientation. People who think sexuality is a choice are conflating the choice to date/have sex with being gay. You can be gay and do neither of those things - if they still think that that is a choice (being gay) then I'm afraid they're deluded and you're wasting your breath trying to enlighten them.

[garfeeled]

im gay and i tell you its not a choice i was brought up in a very homophobic family who were friends with homophobics so why then would i choose to be gay, also evidence suggest its due to an antigen release during early pregnancies

[ROYP]

(Original post by Gales)
I really don't think it's environmental, otherwise you wouldn't get gay people in the Middle East and so on, would you?

I'm not sure what you mean. I'm aware it's illegal in a lot of places but why would that make a difference?

[Gales]

(Original post by ROYP)
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm aware it's illegal in a lot of places but why would that make a difference?

Well, obviously, in the Middle East homosexuality is hugely frowned upon and so taboo that it doesn't exist in mainstream culture at all. So if it was environmental, would there not be any gay people in the Middle East?

[ilovelabradors]

(Original post by somethingbeautiful)
I think they're the kind of people who would like homosexuals not to act on their desires. They see the act as the choice and conflate the act with homosexuality itself. E.g dating or having sex with a person is a choice that one can make regardless of sexual-orientation. People who think sexuality is a choice are conflating the choice to date/have sex with being gay. You can be gay and do neither of those things - if they still think that that is a choice (being gay) then I'm afraid they're deluded and you're wasting you're breath trying to enlighten them.

Agree 100 per cent.

[ROYP]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
If it's not a conscious choice surely it's not a choice?

Thanks for your input anyway

I may have misunderstood the question. I was seeing people post things about being 'born this way' and stuff so I thought it was a 'nature vs nurture' question. As in genetics or environment.

In my defence it's late and I've got one eye on Big Break.

[littleone271]

I don't think it's a choice either. Some people like to think it's a choice because then it's something that they see as being avoidable so they don't need to question their own sexuality or the sexuality of their children/future children. That's what I think anyway. It's just ignorance really.