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Med App Help! Including 'drop-out' degrees?!

Hi!

I'm hoping you can offer some advice on my med app for 2012/2013.

I am 21 and want nothing more than to study medicine....But I have had quite a long journey leading up to this decision and I am confused on how I should approach my applications and potential interview questions.

I completed the IB in 2009 with 39 points, Bio at higher but no chem, and an A A-level in English lang and lit completed 2 years early. I have GCSE grades of 10A* and 2A. Some taken a year early also...but the work burden I think was balanced out so this shouldn't be a disadvantage to all in one year? GCSE is the highest level of chem that I have certificated studies of.

I had a gap year where I worked, both in the UK and away and also backpacked and did some volunteer placements. the experience really made me grow up quite a lot and taught me more about myself and life options.

I studied liberal arts and sciences at university college maastricht, netherlands for one term but the experience led me to re-evaluate myself and gave me the opportunity to consider my academic needs and interests much more independently....it was a toss up between staying the whole degree and being unhappy/wasting time and money OR owning up to my mistake and preparing myself (getting the relevant work experience etc) for medicine. I chose to come back to the UK, work and spend time volunteering in my local hospital, for Samaritans and St John Ambulance as well as continuing self development in extra-curricular interests and some more travelling.

During the year, however, we had a family tragedy that hit me quite hard and has taken me a little while to recover my confidence from. In this time I became desperate just to go to university and could not wait for medicine any longer. In a panic I decided to follow another of my passions and got a place to study Chinese and Economics at Leeds. I began the course and quickly realised the huge mistake that I had made.

This leads me to my dilemma.....I think have the grades, work experience and life experience to apply for medicine with a pre-med year but I am obviously worried about the mess that led me to the decision.

I want to reassure the admissions teams that I am able to commit and know exactly what I want to study.......I need to use my messy experiences to show that this has all been part of my careful consideration (and elimination of other options!?).

My big question right now, however, is do you think I should mention liberal arts and sciences in Maastricht in my applications? Or just leeds...which I obviously have to address because it will show up on UCAS. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot but also I want to be honest.

How do you think I should address this?!

I want to send universities an email to double check that they will consider me seriously for pre-med and if there is anything more i should be doing to get experience....and I am unsure if i should include both leeds and maas in my background here. i know that they will look back at this email when it comes to apps and interviews so it all has to match up.

Thank you in advance for any help!
I personally wouldn't mention the drop-out degree on UCAS. Not only may it make you come across as indecisive (though this isn't a personal criticism; I have my own experience of oscillating between arts and sciences! :wink:), but there really isn't that much space in your Personal Statement, so you'd be better off using what little room you have to talk about the more relevant stuff.

As for sending emails to the admissions departments - I think it's a great idea. I'd normally say you can find everything you need to know on university websites, but pre-med courses can be pretty finicky so just as well to check. :smile:

Good luck!
Reply 2
Thank you for your help! It is a really good point... there isn't enough space in the personal statement to worry about that.
Original post by *pitseleh*
I personally wouldn't mention the drop-out degree on UCAS. Not only may it make you come across as indecisive (though this isn't a personal criticism; I have my own experience of oscillating between arts and sciences! :wink:), but there really isn't that much space in your Personal Statement, so you'd be better off using what little room you have to talk about the more relevant stuff.

As for sending emails to the admissions departments - I think it's a great idea. I'd normally say you can find everything you need to know on university websites, but pre-med courses can be pretty finicky so just as well to check. :smile:

Good luck!




Original post by j.L.c
Thank you for your help! It is a really good point... there isn't enough space in the personal statement to worry about that.


That is a terrible idea. You MUST put the entirety of your educational history on your UCAS form. Failure to do so will result in you either being rejected or being kicked out of Medical School when they find out. And it is a case of when. Even if you qualify as a doctor, this mistake will get you pulled up in front of the GMC and struck off. I repeat this now YOU MUST INCLUDE YOUR ENTIRE EDUCATIONAL HISTORY ON YOUR UCAS FORM AS YOU ARE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO DO SO.

However, you can turn this to a strength: you have tried other avenues, realised your mistake, and have sought to change that. Have your referee mention the extenuating circumstances. Be open and honest in all communications. E-mail every university and call them up. But whatever you do, don't lie, either deliberately or by omission.

You need to be comfortable talking about your previous mistakes, and not make excuses for your behaviour.
Original post by Harbour Seal
That is a terrible idea. You MUST put the entirety of your educational history on your UCAS form. Failure to do so will result in you either being rejected or being kicked out of Medical School when they find out. And it is a case of when. Even if you qualify as a doctor, this mistake will get you pulled up in front of the GMC and struck off. I repeat this now YOU MUST INCLUDE YOUR ENTIRE EDUCATIONAL HISTORY ON YOUR UCAS FORM AS YOU ARE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO DO SO.

However, you can turn this to a strength: you have tried other avenues, realised your mistake, and have sought to change that. Have your referee mention the extenuating circumstances. Be open and honest in all communications. E-mail every university and call them up. But whatever you do, don't lie, either deliberately or by omission.

You need to be comfortable talking about your previous mistakes, and not make excuses for your behaviour.


When I applied, there was no obligation to put down courses you'd dropped out of; just those you'd either passed or failed. That has changed now (which I hadn't realised until I just checked); however, (a) they are not going to find out about study in a foreign university when they don't bother to check about drop-outs from universities in this country and (b) there literally isn't the space to discuss a complex educational history in a Personal Statement.

So long story short: no, you're not supposed to omit things; yes, I would personally still omit that fact if I were in that position.
Original post by *pitseleh*
When I applied, there was no obligation to put down courses you'd dropped out of; just those you'd either passed or failed. That has changed now (which I hadn't realised until I just checked); however, (a) they are not going to find out about study in a foreign university when they don't bother to check about drop-outs from universities in this country and (b) there literally isn't the space to discuss a complex educational history in a Personal Statement.

So long story short: no, you're not supposed to omit things; yes, I would personally still omit that fact if I were in that position.


I have a very complicated educational history too, and I managed it. It was part of my introduction. I have had one interview and another one is coming up in a couple of weeks - it is not impossible.

But your reason (a) is ridiculous. Why take the risk? It is also morally objectionable, as well as being against GMC guidelines, as to omit the information is not allowing the medical school (in their position entrusted by the GMC) to pick the person fit for the job in hand. Parading yourself around as someone who hasn't dropped out of university twice IS lying in the OP's case. Who is to say the OP won't drop out again? He moved country twice, dropped out twice, hasn't got a chemistry qualification beyond GCSE, and whilst he has done a lot of volunteering etc has done nothing to investigate courses and requirements for pre-med by sending a simple e-mail outlining his educational history? Which is surely the first thing you would do before even STARTING to think about applying?

Needless to say, by omitting crucial information from the application, he is not allowing the Medical School staff to do their job, undermining the responsibility that entails.

OP, it might look bad but that doesn't matter. They will end up finding out somehow, and you will not be able to study medicine ever. Find out what you can do and be honest. It is honestly not worth the hassle to lie.
Original post by Harbour Seal
I have a very complicated educational history too, and I managed it. It was part of my introduction. I have had one interview and another one is coming up in a couple of weeks - it is not impossible.

But your reason (a) is ridiculous. Why take the risk? It is also morally objectionable, as well as being against GMC guidelines, as to omit the information is not allowing the medical school (in their position entrusted by the GMC) to pick the person fit for the job in hand. Parading yourself around as someone who hasn't dropped out of university twice IS lying in the OP's case. Who is to say the OP won't drop out again? He moved country twice, dropped out twice, hasn't got a chemistry qualification beyond GCSE, and whilst he has done a lot of volunteering etc has done nothing to investigate courses and requirements for pre-med by sending a simple e-mail outlining his educational history? Which is surely the first thing you would do before even STARTING to think about applying?

Needless to say, by omitting crucial information from the application, he is not allowing the Medical School staff to do their job, undermining the responsibility that entails.

OP, it might look bad but that doesn't matter. They will end up finding out somehow, and you will not be able to study medicine ever. Find out what you can do and be honest. It is honestly not worth the hassle to lie.


Good for you. Mine was also incredibly complex, and it was a pain in the arse to fit it all in. The attitude you express re: his "drop[ping] out again" is precisely why I probably wouldn't bother next time. Particularly given what I now know through discussion with other mature students about their own applications.

You come across as thoroughly holier-than-thou. Unless you're capable of expressing your opinions without throwing your toys out of the pram, I doubt there's any point in continuing this conversation. You think the OP ought to detail each and every blip to date, I wouldn't bother - that's all there is to it.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by *pitseleh*
Good for you. Mine was also incredibly complex, and it was a pain in the arse to fit it all in. The attitude you express re: his "drop[ping] out again" is precisely why I probably wouldn't bother next time. Particularly given what I now know through discussion with other mature students about their own applications.

You come across as thoroughly holier-than-thou. Unless you're capable of expressing your opinions without throwing your toys out of the pram, I doubt there's any point in continuing this conversation. You think the OP ought to detail each and every blip to date, I wouldn't bother - that's all there is to it.


Throwing my toys out the pram?

Holier than thou?

I call it following the legal requirements. All I did was give a nod to it, not describe every blip, which I actually never said to do in the personal statement. I wrote how it had confirmed for me what I wanted to do and gave me a chance to re-evaluate my career choices.

That's all you have to do. Difficult? :rolleyes:

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