How can people think homosexuality is a choice?

Original post by Emaemmaemily

No, you don't have to act on them to be a homophone! Read the definition...

You wouldn't be called a homophobe if you weren't one... You have clearly proven that you are definitely homophobic. Also, you ARE trying to keep homosexuals from having equal rights, because you do not wish them to have the right to marry.

Can you just not call me a homophobe, ok? It's not very nice.

You have yet to show a single bit of evidence proving that homosexuals are 1. bad for society or 2. their marriage will make something worse.
Go ahead, give it a go. Or, you could actually accept that everything you've said is completely false.

Didn't I show you evidence just yesterday that gay marriage had led to more out of wedlock births. Gay marriage has encouraged bad parenting style. We can't let this erosion of our social values continue.

Original post by ohirome

No, holding those opinions is homophobic. Its racist to hold negative opinions and outlooks on people of colour...you don't need to murder a black man to be racist.

Okay, so I've made homophobic comments before, I don't think that means I am, as a person, a homophobe though. Besides, I don't hate gays.

Firstly, it won't cause people to go gay because its not something you suddenly decide to do, as has been discussed and proven in this thread. Even if your odd theory were to be true...so what? What difference does it make to you if someone wants to take that avenue in life? You need to get out and live before making these hideous judgements.

I think being gay is not bad, but that doesn't mean we should want more homosexuality. I think it will fundamentally harm our society - as I said, harming our conservative values that have brought the USA to where it is today.

Yep, theres every need for it. You lose your right to civility when you claim homosexuals are essentially degenerates and lower than everyone else.

I don't think that. Maybe I do believe that heterosexuals are better, but I don't think you're degenerate or anything like that.

Reply 864

Emaemmaemily

18

Original post by DYKWIA

Can you just not call me a homophobe, ok? It's not very nice.

Didn't I show you evidence just yesterday that gay marriage had led to more out of wedlock births. Gay marriage has encouraged bad parenting style. We can't let this erosion of our social values continue.

Okay, so I've made homophobic comments before, I don't think that means I am, as a person, a homophobe though. Besides, I don't hate gays.

I think being gay is not bad, but that doesn't mean we should want more homosexuality. I think it will fundamentally harm our society - as I said, harming our conservative values that have brought the USA to where it is today.

I don't think that. Maybe I do believe that heterosexuals are better, but I don't think you're degenerate or anything like that.

I will continue to call you a homophobe because that is exactly what you are. Face up to it or change yourself.
Also, babies being born out of wedlock isn't a negative thing, that's just your opinion. And your evidence was old and biased... Try again.

Reply 865

We have the best economy in the world and IMO the USA is the best country in the world too. It has got to where it has because of loose restrictions and by letting the free market work, except where intervention is necessary.

You're just ignorant. The strength of the safety net has no affect on 'how hard will work to keep their jobs'.

If that safety net is the equivalent of $10,000 per year, that means that people would be better off not working than working. We should make life hard for lazy people who don't want to work, so they find out that getting a job is preferable.

That's because the Democrats are more concerned with things like education and making sure people have the opportunity to go to college... Rather than sending our troops to war to die.

Nice. I believe in education too. But equally, we have a duty to help other countries that are being oppressed, especially if it is partially our fault.

You're so ignorant. Did I ever say increase taxation for the middle income? At all? Ever. No.

High taxation ALWAYS harms the middle income earners the most.

In fact, democrats don't want to tax middle income more. They want to tax the rich; but the rich, being republican, avoid being taxed. Hi... Welcome to politics and taxation 101. :confused:

But if you tax the rich too heavily they will have less incentive to reinvest money back into US business. Remember that a lot of rich people don't have a salary. They are taxed in other ways, mainly involving when they transfer money in one way or another. THey will simply avoid transfering wealth through the USA. We will miss out.

No. You are completely ignorant in philosophy. You just completely jumbled up your normative ethics and your metaethics.

I don't understand? :s-smilie:

Original post by NYU2012

That's because you are a homophobe. You think homosexuals are inferior to you, harm society, and blah blah blah. That makes you a homophobe. Welcome to using definitions of words.

No, I have my beliefs on the harms of homosexuality, but they are truthful and plausible, not homophobic hatred.

Civil unions and partnerships aren't equal to marriages

They are in all but the name. I don't see why you can't be happy that I'd be sorta accepting of civil unions.

And CLEARLY our agenda is to annoy people like you. Stop with the ignorant statements. They're blatantly wrong.

If you actually think this, you just topped the ignorant people of the year list.

Such ignorant nonsense. We're not trying to get revenge. We want equal rights ; how many times do we have to tell you this?

It's like the black panther movement. Maybe the 'pink panther' movement. I do think that gay people want to destroy the conservative side in revenge for the past.

I didn't know rights were different between developed countries and non-developed countries. I generally thought marriage was the same thing in different countries. Are you now telling me there's "marriage in a developed country" which is inherently very different from "marriage in a non-developed country"? :confused:

No, I didn't think so.

But they have different population mechanics. They are experiencing out of control population growth and until they develop and their population stabilizes and until they are freer countries then they are not my concern.

(1) You are a homophobe

(2) No one is going to attack you

(3) People who hold your views and are homophobic do attack and bully gays. Gays don't bully people. When's the last time you saw on the news "heterosexual Dave killed himself because he was bullied by homosexual John" :confused:

Really, stop with the completely ignorant statements.

Heterophobic attacks are becoming more common. This is not an ignorant statement to make.

Go take an actual philosophy class. Learn something. Although your ethics faculty comes nowhere close to mine, which is problematic.

Wonderful - how condescending. I take many CS classes at CMU, which is a neighboring college - perhaps they offer ethics.

Reply 866

XxelliexX

14

Original post by DYKWIA

Can you just not call me a homophobe, ok? It's not very nice.

You're a homophobe. Criticising homosexuality isn't very nice either.

Original post by DYKWIA

Didn't I show you evidence just yesterday that gay marriage had led to more out of wedlock births. Gay marriage has encouraged bad parenting style. We can't let this erosion of our social values continue.

How has it?

Original post by DYKWIA

I think being gay is not bad, but that doesn't mean we should want more homosexuality. I think it will fundamentally harm our society - as I said, harming our conservative values that have brought the USA to where it is today.

Which values would that be then? Elaborate. Kinda makes me glad to not be American...

Original post by DYKWIA

I don't think that. Maybe I do believe that heterosexuals are better, but I don't think you're degenerate or anything like that.

'Better'?? How? What about me? I'm bisexual... Where do I fall on your rank of goodness? You can't judge one person as 'better' than the other based on their sexuality.

Reply 867

Jester94

Original post by DYKWIA

Can you just not call me a homophobe, ok? It's not very nice.

Didn't I show you evidence just yesterday that gay marriage had led to more out of wedlock births. Gay marriage has encouraged bad parenting style. We can't let this erosion of our social values continue.

Okay, so I've made homophobic comments before, I don't think that means I am, as a person, a homophobe though. Besides, I don't hate gays.

I think being gay is not bad, but that doesn't mean we should want more homosexuality. I think it will fundamentally harm our society - as I said, harming our conservative values that have brought the USA to where it is today.

I don't think that. Maybe I do believe that heterosexuals are better, but I don't think you're degenerate or anything like that.

Can you not just oppose gay marriage, okay, or express your bigotry or patronise us by saying we should be happy with civil partnerships, it's not very nice? You are a homophobe, no two ways about it - you have done nothing throughout this thread but express homophobic ideas and opinions which makes you a homophobe. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's a duck - and you sir are one massive duck. Homophobic comments=homophobe

By believing heterosexuals are better, you are stating homosexuals are inferior, which could very easily mean degenerate in comparison to heterosexuals. Heterosexuals are not superior to homosexuals in any way, it is a ludicrous idea.

It doesn't make sense for gay marriage to lead to more babies born out of wedlock, it is a ridiculous argument. Gay marriage is a marriage between two people of the same sex; a baby born out of wedlock comes from two people of opposite sexes who are not married. There is no link between the two; gay people do not go around casually knocking up/getting knocked up, so that can't be it, and legalising gay marriage will not mean that less people will get married. If anything, legalising gay marriage is an affirmation of marriage, which could restore some of the reputation it has lost over the years.

Gay people do not encourage a bad parenting style, stop saying this, you are embarrassing yourself.

Reply 868

Original post by lambert1

Ethics are all subjective and determined by cultural upbringing hence that proves nothing. If you had taken that same class 50 years ago they would all be saying homosexuality is bad.

God's morality was created by God. He is all powerful so can create and change his own morals much like we can.

One word;

Euthyphro

Reply 869

Original post by Jester94

Can you not just oppose gay marriage, okay, or express your bigotry or patronise us by saying we should be happy with civil partnerships, it's not very nice? You are a homophobe, no two ways about it - you have done nothing throughout this thread but express homophobic ideas and opinions which makes you a homophobe. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's a duck - and you sir are one massive duck. Homophobic comments=homophobe

By believing heterosexuals are better, you are stating homosexuals are inferior, which could very easily mean degenerate in comparison to heterosexuals. Heterosexuals are not superior to homosexuals in any way, it is a ludicrous idea.

It doesn't make sense for gay marriage to lead to more babies born out of wedlock, it is a ridiculous argument. Gay marriage is a marriage between two people of the same sex; a baby born out of wedlock comes from two people of opposite sexes who are not married. There is no link between the two; gay people do not go around casually knocking up/getting knocked up, so that can't be it, and legalising gay marriage will not mean that less people will get married. If anything, legalising gay marriage is an affirmation of marriage, which could restore some of the reputation it has lost over the years.

Gay people do not encourage a bad parenting style, stop saying this, you are embarrassing yourself.

That does depend on how one measures the value of a relationship, surely?

If the only value of a relationship is the number of offspring it produces then homosexuals will struggle to compete.

If, however, you hail from the 21st century and think that a relationship has value because it is an economic partnership, a social moulding, a support structure, a way of sharing happiness, a coming together of souls and a celebration of love and selflessness then it's pretty difficult to find a good reason why homosexual relationships are inferior.

Out of interest, are you familiar with Roy Zimmerman?

Warning; the video in the spoiler contains mild language and innuendo that some people may find offensive. Also contains logic and reasoned arguments that may be offensive to creationists.

Spoiler

Reply 870

Original post by XxelliexX

How has it?

Because now people have seen that with the legalization of gay marriage in certain places that marriage has been devalued and now they don't respect it as much.

Which values would that be then? Elaborate. Kinda makes me glad to not be American...

Freedom, democracy, free speech - things gay people like to suppress if it goes against their beliefs. People have said that if I chose to raise a kid to be straight, which i'd like to do, then that would be classified as child abuse. I should have the right to decide how a kid is raised.

'Better'?? How? What about me? I'm bisexual... Where do I fall on your rank of goodness? You can't judge one person as 'better' than the other based on their sexuality.

Why can't you just keep your homosexual urges to yourself then? If you are bi then you can just choose which sex you wanna like. Simple.

Original post by Jester94

Can you not just oppose gay marriage, okay, or express your bigotry or patronise us by saying we should be happy with civil partnerships, it's not very nice? You are a homophobe, no two ways about it - you have done nothing throughout this thread but express homophobic ideas and opinions which makes you a homophobe. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's a duck - and you sir are one massive duck. Homophobic comments=homophobe

This is a thread on homosexuality. Of course I am gonna talk about homosexuality on here.

By believing heterosexuals are better, you are stating homosexuals are inferior, which could very easily mean degenerate in comparison to heterosexuals. Heterosexuals are not superior to homosexuals in any way, it is a ludicrous idea.

But that's not what I mean. Gay people can't have kids naturally, they are not the normal either and I believe that kids who are influenced by gay society could be damaged.

It doesn't make sense for gay marriage to lead to more babies born out of wedlock, it is a ridiculous argument. Gay marriage is a marriage between two people of the same sex; a baby born out of wedlock comes from two people of opposite sexes who are not married. There is no link between the two; gay people do not go around casually knocking up/getting knocked up, so that can't be it, and legalising gay marriage will not mean that less people will get married. If anything, legalising gay marriage is an affirmation of marriage, which could restore some of the reputation it has lost over the years.

But they don't see the need to marry any more, because they see that the gays have devalued marriage.

Gay people do not encourage a bad parenting style, stop saying this, you are embarrassing yourself.

Gays will not teach their kids to be gay, or support their kid if he/she doesn't wanna be gay. Also, what about their dangerous lifestyle habits? They get HIV at far higher rates than heteros and so they have a negative aspect to how they choose to live their life.

Reply 871

Original post by DYKWIA

Because now people have seen that with the legalization of gay marriage in certain places that marriage has been devalued and now they don't respect it as much.

But they don't see the need to marry any more, because they see that the gays have devalued marriage.

USA, birth rates for children born out of wedlock. As you can see, rising from the 40's

USA rates of marriage, falling since 1965

Since gay marriage has only recently hit the agenda, would you care to explain how the trends you attribute to it precede it by five or six decades?

(Those pesky time-travelling homosexuals!)

Reply 872

Max I

Original post by ThePhilosoraptor

One word;

Euthyphro

10/10, would read again, keep up the good work.

Reply 873

XxelliexX

14

Original post by DYKWIA

Because now people have seen that with the legalization of gay marriage in certain places that marriage has been devalued and now they don't respect it as much.

You're point is meaningless without evidence.

Original post by DYKWIA

Freedom, democracy, free speech - things gay people like to suppress if it goes against their beliefs. People have said that if I chose to raise a kid to be straight, which i'd like to do, then that would be classified as child abuse. I should have the right to decide how a kid is raised.

You don't 'raise' a child to be straight, it is something which you cannot control. You can try to make the child suppress any homosexual urges he/she might have, but this will end up to be an impossible task, and the child will likely feel self hating, insecure and depressed because of it.

Original post by DYKWIA

Why can't you just keep your homosexual urges to yourself then? If you are bi then you can just choose which sex you wanna like. Simple.

No, I like both sexes, and I prefer girls. I don't want to deny a part of myself that knows that I'm crazily attracted to girls, and in the majority of cases I would rather have homosexual sex than heterosexual sex. There's literally no reason for me NOT to have sex with a girl if I want to... or to chose guys over girls.

Reply 874

Original post by ThePhilosoraptor

USA, birth rates for children born out of wedlock. As you can see, rising from the 40's

USA rates of marriage, falling since 1965

Since gay marriage has only recently hit the agenda, would you care to explain how the trends you attribute to it precede it by five or six decades?

(Those pesky time-travelling homosexuals!)

Gay attitudes have increasingly since the 60's been turning against me and look, as homosexualty has become more accepted rates of marriage have fallen and out of wedlock births have increased. Gays are the cause.

Reply 875

Original post by XxelliexX

You don't 'raise' a child to be straight, it is something which you cannot control. You can try to make the child suppress any homosexual urges he/she might have, but this will end up to be an impossible task, and the child will likely feel self hating, insecure and depressed because of it.

I have a friend who used to be a homosexual. His family and me were very supportive of his therapy and he now doesn't give in to homosexual urges and he likes women. Heck, he's even opposed to gay marriage.

No, I like both sexes, and I prefer girls. I don't want to deny a part of myself that knows that I'm crazily attracted to girls, and in the majority of cases I would rather have homosexual sex than heterosexual sex. There's literally no reason for me NOT to have sex with a girl if I want to... or to chose guys over girls.

It would make me happier and it would be better for society if you didn't get involved with people of the same sex.

Reply 876

Original post by DYKWIA

Gay attitudes have increasingly since the 60's been turning against me and look, as homosexualty has become more accepted rates of marriage have fallen and out of wedlock births have increased. Gays are the cause.

Err... no. This table takes marriage rates back to the mid nineteenth century. Marriage rates spike suddenly around both world wars, but as I'm sure you'll note the graph describes an overall trend towards increasing marriage rates.

(This is Scottish Data because that's what I work with at uni. I haven't noticed any significant difference between the trends of my own country and the trends of the western world in general over this period)

How does this gel with your theory?

EDIT;

Over the same period we see a rise in divorces - which is essentially the advances in womens rights - however as homosexuality becomes more socially acceptable we see a drop in the divorce rate. Now, correspondance =/= causation but it does tend to blow any idea that homosexuals are undermining marriage right out of the water.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 877