Can you be a pure vegan?

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Original post by Toaster Leavings

I can't be the only person who is vegan due to mass farming practices rather than the belief that eating or killing animals is inherently wrong.

If I hunted a wild animal or raised my own stock on a small-holding I'd be fine with it, in fact I think that is better than being vegan. Since I can't do these things I find it easier to just be vegan and eat wild caught fish. I just can't bear the thought of not knowing where my food came from, having no relationship with the cow or pig or chicken etc that was born purely to feed humans and killed for my benefit. It just seems greedy, lazy and unattached to reality.

So, you know, you can be 'pure vegan' in those terms but perhaps I fall under a different banner I'm unaware about.

How exactly would you have roaming herds of dairy cow and pig? It would not be sustainable. Plus, on what land would the UK's population of wild but tasty animals roam?

Reply 21

the_alba

Original post by ForKicks

Vegans won't eat even organic and ethically sourced animal products.. They would rather see a dairy cow never been born than have their udders squeezed once in a while.

Yes, that is true. Well done!

Reply 22

redferry

Original post by Toaster Leavings

Please if you are going to insist on eating fish eat farmed talapia. Wild-caught fish is terrible, the majority of species are severely endangered and genetically ****ed up as a result of overfishing.

Reply 23

callum9999

Original post by ForKicks

Vegans won't eat even organic and ethically sourced animal products.. They would rather see a dairy cow never been born than have their udders squeezed once in a while.

You mean just like everyone would rather a human was never born than being enslaved in some kind of slave labour for it's entire life?

It's clearly not the desire to stop them being born that the "policy" is aiming for - in both cases...

Reply 24

ForKicks

Original post by callum9999

But birth is a consequence of the policy. With human slavery, if anything, it was the complete opposite. Without a meat industry, many farmed animals would completely die out.

Reply 25

.eXe

Vegans are dumb...their insides are replete with bacteria and last I checked...bacteria aren't plants. Gamed.

Also: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4282257.stm

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 26

User414413

Original post by Toaster Leavings

I really don't understand the rationale being this view. Why do farming practices matter? You believe it's moral and should be legal to kill animals correct? Where then do we come up with regulations about methods that should be used? Why can't it be the most cost-effective method? Why do we give animals any rights whatsoever? The end result is the same, a slaughtered animal.

Reply 27

Toaster Leavings

Original post by Annoying-Mouse

It's not an easy concept to grasp in the modern urbanised world if I'm honest. It's not to do with the end result but the interaction I have with the animal and it's meat. I desire a sense of gratitude towards the animal I've nurtured and raised, rather than an unthinking over-consumption of meat from an animal I've never seen alive.

If you're interested to know more I basically agree with this guy:-

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/gustafson/FILM%20161.F08/readings/berger.animals%202.pdf

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 28

.eXe

Original post by Toaster Leavings

do you honestly think that an animal as you say you've "nurtured and raised" would be easier for you to kill than a random animal you've never even met? get real mate.

Reply 29

Toaster Leavings

Original post by ForKicks

How exactly would you have roaming herds of dairy cow and pig? It would not be sustainable. Plus, on what land would the UK's population of wild but tasty animals roam?

If you read what I said carefully you'll see I said it is not possible for me to live like that so I just have to be vegan.

Although, I am interested by this:-

http://www.gilburyfarm.co.uk/pigs/farrow-to-fork/

Next best thing.

Reply 30

Toaster Leavings

Original post by .eXe

do you honestly think that an animal as you say you've "nurtured and raised" would be easier for you to kill than a random animal you've never even met? get real mate.

It's not about it being easier! Quite the opposite actually. That would be facing reality square on rather than buying some plastic wrapped chunks of meat that could've come from a purple chicken with laser beam eyes for all I know.

Reply 31

.eXe

Original post by Toaster Leavings

So wait a second...your opposition isn't that an animal you didn't know was killed. It's just your paranoia that the meat isn't what is seems.

Blatantly false allegation because this is why butcher shops exist. You can go in and have the guy cut up the meat right in front of you, to ensure that the meat did not originate from a purple laser eye chicken.

Your argument is pretty flimsy if you ask me...

Reply 32

Toaster Leavings

Original post by .eXe

So wait a second...you opposition isn't that an animal you didn't know was killed. It's just your paranoia that the animal isn't what is seems.

Blatantly false allegation because this is why butcher shops exist. You can go in and have the guy cut up the meat right in front of you, to ensure that the meat did not originate from a purple laser eye chicken.

Your argument is pretty flimsy if you ask me...

I was being flippant with the purple chicken comment, obviously. What I meant is that I haven't raised the chicken myself so I can't get the same sense of gratitude for it. Basically I see eating meat as a big deal, not something which should be shovelled down your gob everyday, after all you have taken a life. Now, I don't consider taking an animal's life as wrong, it is just not something which should be done lightly and done unthinkingly like it is on a mass scale today. I do respect their lives you see and I also think it is important for me to have a part in the life of the animal I've raised or kill wild animals who are not affected by me until the point of death.

I don't stand for animal rights, as such, all concept of rights is rather arbitrary anyway. I think that it would just be more civilised for humans to have more empathy towards animals and experience a sense of gratitude and connectedness to the animal and the meat it provides them. Rather than just unthinkingly guzzling down bacon. So, it's to better human life rather than to better animal's lives really. Hope that is clear.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 33

.eXe

Original post by Toaster Leavings

Okay fair point and Ill respect your opinion. However as a carry-forward of your logic, would you be okay having a pet dog, to nurture and care for, and then kill and eat it?

Reply 34

ForKicks

Original post by Toaster Leavings

Ah, I see now :smile:

It is more of a personal preference kind of thing than system overhaul. Fair enough! The link is a fantastic idea, and my dream is to some day source most of my own food (although that may require a heavy amount of capital). Happy livestock taste nicer :smile:

Reply 35

Toaster Leavings

Original post by .eXe

Okay fair point and Ill respect your opinion. However as a carry-forward of your logic, would you be okay having a pet dog, to nurture and care for, and then kill and eat it?

Well, dogs have been bred specifically as companion and workers for humans so it would be rather odd to do that as it is pretty much in their make-up to not be killed for meat now. Domestic cats and dogs are rather exceptional in that when you think about it. However, I would rather do that then guzzle down supermarket meat all the time.

Reply 36

callum9999

Original post by ForKicks

But birth is a consequence of the policy. With human slavery, if anything, it was the complete opposite. Without a meat industry, many farmed animals would completely die out.

And if we legalised slavery, or organ harvesting etc. then we could start farming babies. Meaning more humans will be born.

Just pointing out how ridiculous your premise is.

Reply 37

ForKicks

Original post by callum9999

And if we legalised slavery, or organ harvesting etc. then we could start farming babies. Meaning more humans will be born.

Just pointing out how ridiculous your premise is.

Equating animal rights with human rights is just wrong.

Reply 38

callum9999

Original post by ForKicks

Equating animal rights with human rights is just wrong.

Saying 2+2=5 is just wrong.

(We are just randomly listing things that are wrong aren't we?).

Reply 39

the_alba

Original post by .eXe

Vegans are dumb...their insides are replete with bacteria and last I checked...bacteria aren't plants. Gamed.

Also: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4282257.stm

What an absolutely stupid thing to say. Clearly you know nothing about veganism and what it means.

And the opinion in that article is voiced by someone sponsored by big agriculture! Are you aware of the concept of bias? If an agriculture research group pays a scientist to tell peoplenot to stop buying their meat, that there is bias.