China Triumph and Turmoil? **** off

Well I love how you seem to deffend the British Empire by suggesting they ran the countries they colonised better, as If humanity didn't exist before the British...

And Chinese civilization btw is one of the worlds oldest, continuing civilizations. Never has China been completely invaded or ruled. I think they'll be fine mate

I didn't say they wouldn't.. I said they probably would have been better off under our rule than Maos... Just look at HK and singapore if you don't believe me. The same goes for India and much of africa too.

Why is it that foreigners, or foreigner appologists, always try and validate everything they are trying to defend by saying that my great great great grandad lived in a time when we did those things? Anyone would think all the other countries on earth had clean hands.

I didn't say they wouldn't.. I said they probably would have been better off under our rule than Maos... Just look at HK and singapore if you don't believe me. The same goes for India and much of africa too.

China already has a far suprior economy to ours, india its predicted will have surpassed us inside 5 years. If you are going to debate this subject, finish your GCSEs first, instead of embarrassing everyone else here.

China already has a far suprior economy to ours, india its predicted will have surpassed us inside 5 years. If you are going to debate this subject, finish your GCSEs first, instead of embarrassing everyone else here.

India and Pakistan have been in a Cold War with each other for nearly 65 years because some white, british nob decided to partition the country by drawing a random line between the two countries with no thought behind it whatsoever.

Oh and don't flatter yourself, India's ''democracy'' is one of the main reasons it hasn't reached it's full potential. And most of its rail network was built AFTER the brits left. When it comes to India, the brits stole far more than they gave. If the brits are so generous, why don't they give back the Queen's crown, since they stole it from India.

Oh and China is WAY overrated. They built their economy on cheap labour and exports. Their $3 Trillion reserves were built up using unfair trade practices, which will run out anyway since the Chinese will not be able to lead on exporting forever and their import bill of oil and natural resources is growing every year ultimately leading to a trade deficit rather than a surplus.

Chinese are hardworking and studious, that does not make them super-intellegent as some seem to think. Being able to copy from a textbook to achieve high test scores is a lot different to being able to innovate and problem solve. Most ''new'' Chinese technology is either 30 years old Western/Soviet technology (such as their space program, J-20 stealth fighter) or stolen from the West (fake iphones, really?). They have not built their economy or modern culture on innovation and invention. Rather on the cheapest, fastest way to get rich and developed. This attitude is why China's total debt is three times their GDP. All that fancy infrastructure, paid for with borrowed money.

The Chinese are a decedent as the west. They use their history to justify why they should be seen as a great power today. Who cares about history? The present and future are all that matter. In the future China will have to test it's mettle against others. Then we'll see if their words and posturing are backed up by their ability.

Oh and China is WAY overrated. They built their economy on cheap labour and exports. Their $3 Trillion reserves were built up using unfair trade practices, which will run out anyway since the Chinese will not be able to lead on exporting forever and their import bill of oil and natural resources is growing every year ultimately leading to a trade deficit rather than a surplus.

Chinese are hardworking and studious, that does not make them super-intellegent as some seem to think. Being able to copy from a textbook to achieve high test scores is a lot different to being able to innovate and problem solve. Most ''new'' Chinese technology is either 30 years old Western/Soviet technology (such as their space program, J-20 stealth fighter) or stolen from the West (fake iphones, really?). They have not built their economy or modern culture on innovation and invention. Rather on the cheapest, fastest way to get rich and developed. This attitude is why China's total debt is three times their GDP. All that fancy infrastructure, paid for with borrowed money.

The Chinese are a decedent as the west. They use their history to justify why they should be seen as a great power today. Who cares about history? The present and future are all that matter. In the future China will have to test it's mettle against others. Then we'll see if their words and posturing are backed up by their ability.

In my view. By 2050 - 2100 the world's superpowers will be.

China
USA
European Union
India

And great regional powers

Turkey
Brazil
Iran
Indonesia
South Africa
Egypt
Mexico
Russia (if it has not joined the European Union)
Japan (providing it sorts out it's demographics)

What I think people forget is that both China and India will have to spend a lot of money bringing hundreds of millions of people upwards and out of poverty. The EU and the USA have a head start in being able to spend surplus cash less on creating a middle class and more on research and military strength that can project their power across the world. I don't think China or India can really claim the role of "superpower" until the Chinese and Indian people are individually as wealthy as say somewhere like Estonia or Poland. There is a lot more to being a "superpower" than simply having a high national GDP.

I personally think you are being hard on China. It is true that at the moment their economic philosophy seems to be a.) make lots of stuff for corporations or b.) copy western technology. I think ultimately China will find a means of unlocking it's creativity (probably through reforms of it's political system to a democracy and reforms of it's education system).

India an have been in a cold war because Islamist asswipes insisted they got their own state out of it.... We just obliged. India's democracy is failing them because of corruption at the highest level, and because they aren't going to instantly make something work that is alien to their culture. India didn't even exist as a concept til we got there, and it wasn't even mapped... Stop expecting me to feel bad because people who happen to be British didn't behave perfectly over 100 years ago. Every nation has this stuff in their history - Islam can trace it's history of doing it right back to their so called prophet.

His Chinese accent is worse than mine xP

Yea I probably should have made a disclaimer saying that China is by no means immune from collapse, but it's not going to happen anytime soon. They are already taking steps to reduce growth to a more stable level I think. The only thing China needs is natural resources, which they are acquiring through trade. I don't think that they will go out to seek new lands as In general, the days of colonialism are over. And China actually had the opportunity to collonise or attempt to collonise the world when it was at the height of its power. Theres a book called 1421 which is written by a British naval officer about how China circumnavigated the globe and discovered alot of new land. I haven't read all of it but it states that the sailors were given specific orders to treat the natives well. So I suppose If the Chinese had any imperialistic desire in them, then it would have happened then. But ofc these are different times.

I'm angry because it adds to the negative picture of China that many people in the west have. Theres still a cold war mentality present as mentioned by someone else above.

There were many attrocities commited by European settlers in the mainland, Hong Kong at this time was a small fishing port. Boxer rebellion, opium wars, ransacking of the forbidden city. I also forgot to mention Japan's imperialism which was just as bad, rape of nanking, ect. The Chinese people haven't and shouldn't forget about these attrocities, not to hold them against the respective perpetrators, but to understand that China has done incredibly well to rise from all of this. And Hong Kong was given back peacefully but taken by force, and with an unequal treaty.

I agreed that If China wanted it could massively increase it's army. But the nationalistic sentiments have no other use that I know of. I don't think that China will pursue an agressive military stance, yes they are very capable but as long as they aren't attacked directly I don't think we should fear it. They're only interested in their own economic growth lol.

This is The Peak, the most expensive place in Hong Kong:

http://tourism-hongkong.com/images/peak1.jpg

Did you know when the British nicked it from China, they reserved the area for themselves. No Chinese were allowed to live on The Peak?

Sounds racist to me.

What you on about Ghengis Khan didn't like them? He and the mongolians tried to take over China! But they realised in the end that all they had was military might and China had far more advanced science and education.

And I'm not gonna bother debating on which country is the worst this or that

What role do you think Israel will play? And Britain, in it's heyday was riddled with poverty but it still owned a 5th of the world. So superpower status probably can be attained by China.

First paragraph, fair enough.

Yes the Chinese by nature are hardworking, I actually wish I had a propper Chinese work ethic for revision! But China has a culture of inovation and science. The list of Chinese inventions goes on forever. A pretty big one actually is MATHS. Well the number 0 which opens up a whole new level of Maths apparently! Not forgetting the Arab development of it too.

And I do agree that China is decadent. They have a taste for some of the most tasteless western consumer products. In some ways they actually take it too far. And China doesn't try any justify anything, they don't need to. And we always must at least try to learn from history. Well I really hope China won't have to prove itself to anyone, and who is the other btw, Is it Britain? America? Israel???

Just because things happened in a different generation doesn't mean it didn't happen or should be omitted from history.

The point I'm making is that Ferguson rants about China skewing its history. True but he made no attempt to talk about the British (and US) involvement, with regard to the Opium Wars, Nanking Treaty, etc., so effectively he's a hypocrite.

It is hardly difficult for 2 economies with around 20x more people to be larger than ours. The embaressing thing is that it took them so long. If we were in charge the per capita income would be higher than it is now, like in HK and Singapore. I am starting to notice you always act like a cry baby pussy whenever India comes into a debate... You can't keep your emotions out of it, and the tears must be blurring your vision and your mind.

I believe he has covered these issues before though. He does afterall own a company called Chimerica. The whole point of this show was to highlight how the Chinese propaganada machine works, and how despite outward appearances the Chinese single party system will never relinquish control in even the smallest of ways or be transparent in any way. I don't feel he passes negative judgement on this model though, in fact he seemed quite impressed to me.