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Original post by konvictz0007
My issue with this is if society is to accept homosexuals on the basis that they have no choice, then why punish and criminalise paedophiles as they also have no choice?


Homosexuality involves two consenting adults.
Paedophillia does not.
Homosexuality takes advance of nobody, and harms nobody.
Paedophillia involves the abusive and mental traumatisation of innocent children.

Clearly two VERY different things.
Original post by Jester94
Homosexuality is not a choice, one does not choose their sexual orientation. You didn't make a choice to be straight, you just are, just like some people are gay - nobody chooses their sexual orientation, that is just something that is part of them.

It is ridiculous to compare the two because, as you have been told many, many times, homosexuality is a sexual orientation whereas bestiality is a paraphilia. They are two completely different things, thus cannot be compared.

Yes, I am gay, would have thought that was pretty clear from my post. Why the smiley?



The definition of paraphillia:

A technical term for a sexual attraction of an unusual or pathological nature


It is UNUSUAL, yes. But so was homosexuality about 50 years ago.. So you can't use that argument..
Definition of paraphillia:

A technical term for a sexual attraction of an unusual or pathological nature


Using your words, homosexuality was a paraphillia not so long ago.
No there isn't. Just look at the damn human body, that says all you need to know about sex and reproduction
Original post by xXxiKillxXx
The definition of paraphillia:

It is UNUSUAL, yes. But so was homosexuality about 50 years ago.. So you can't use that argument..


LOL that is not the definition of paraphilia.

Paraphilias are defined by DSM-IV-TR as sexual disorders characterized by "recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges or behaviors generally involving (1) nonhuman objects, (2) the suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner, or (3) children or other nonconsenting persons that occur over a period of 6 months" (Criterion A), which "cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning" (Criterion B).


Homosexuality does not fit the criterion. So it cannot be a paraphilia. Therefore it is a valid argument.
Original post by xXxiKillxXx
No there isn't. Just look at the damn human body, that says all you need to know about sex and reproduction


What do you mean 'no there isn't'? Twin studies have most definitely been done. And the conclusions implied at least some genetic factor. The human body doesn't say much about sexual practices. :colonhash:
Original post by Miracle Day
Because paedophillia damages people, and homosexuality doesn't?


not all paedophiles want to rape little children
Original post by WelshBluebird
Homosexuality involves two consenting adults.
Paedophillia does not.
Homosexuality takes advance of nobody, and harms nobody.
Paedophillia involves the abusive and mental traumatisation of innocent children.

Clearly two VERY different things.


not all paedophiles rape children

homosexuality does not always involve adults, in a court case i was in...one boy allegedly raped another several times
Original post by robin22391
not all paedophiles want to rape little children


By definition they do want to rape little children. A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to and has recurring fantasies/desires to have sex with pre-pubescent children. That is a desire to rape the child because any kind of sexual activity is rape for a child so young.
Original post by robin22391
not all paedophiles rape children


Correct. But the offences you get put in jail for DO involve abuse of children.
Those peadophiles who do not act on their impulses - we do not punish.

Original post by robin22391

homosexuality does not always involve adults, in a court case i was in...one boy allegedly raped another several times


But that has nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with rape.
Original post by robin22391

homosexuality does not always involve adults, in a court case i was in...one boy allegedly raped another several times


This has nothing to do with the person being homosexual. Nor does it have any bearing on homosexuality. All you have demonstrated is rape that can occur between two people.
I appreciate that you are entitled to your opinion. I'd like to pick out a point you made, though:

Original post by konvictz0007
Some argue homosexuality is not a choice, one does not choose their sexual orientation. I disagree with that statement.


Homosexuality isn't a choice. If it were a choice, then why are there people being kicked out of their homes for being gay, when they could just choose to be straight? Why would people choose to be bullied and discriminated against when they could just choose to be straight. Why are there people who have committed suicide (and many more who have contemplated this) when they could just make a choice be straight? I don't know about your sexual orientation, but I think you are walking on an extremely fine line here.

Personally, speaking as a lesbian, I can tell you that I did not choose to be gay, especially as homosexuality is not exactly very welcome in Asian communities.

And... you have a lot of things to say with regards to the 'preservation' of humanity and society and so on. I disagree, but a lot of people have addressed your arguments excellently, so I'm not going to go through every point you have made.
Reply 252
Original post by xXxiKillxXx
Definition of paraphillia:



Using your words, homosexuality was a paraphillia not so long ago.


That is not the definition of a paraphilia. I believe Rand has provided you with one, I suggest you go read it.
Original post by Stefan1991
Evidence?


Oh stfu ignoramous.
Whether or not being gay is a choice, comparing it to paedophilia is wrong. Even if both were a choice, or both were not a choice, this similarity alone is not enough to compare them. Paedophilia causes serious harm to other people, so there is a genuine reason for it being illegal. It is not illegal simply because being a paedophile is/isn't a choice. Whereas even if being gay was a choice, why would that be a reason to make it illegal? Does it cause harm to others? No.

It is pretty stupid to compare two things, just because they might have one thing in common. I don't want to be in a relationship with other men, but just because I don't want to, I still respect other people's right to do so. They aren't causing a problem to me, so why should it be made illegal? I personally don't like tattoos and body piercings, but I'm not suggesting they should be illegal just because I don't like them. So quite simple really- if you don't like gay people, then don't hang around with them!
Reply 255
Original post by Prestoria
I appreciate that you are entitled to your opinion. I'd like to pick out a point you made, though:



Homosexuality isn't a choice. If it were a choice, then why are there people being kicked out of their homes for being gay, when they could just choose to be straight? Why would people choose to be bullied and discriminated against when they could just choose to be straight. Why are there people who have committed suicide (and many more who have contemplated this) when they could just make a choice be straight? I don't know about your sexual orientation, but I think you are walking on an extremely fine line here.

Personally, speaking as a lesbian, I can tell you that I did not choose to be gay, especially as homosexuality is not exactly very welcome in Asian communities.

And... you have a lot of things to say with regards to the 'preservation' of humanity and society and so on. I disagree, but a lot of people have addressed your arguments excellently, so I'm not going to go through every point you have made.


You say homosexuality is not a choice but you have not provided any evidence, in fact there does not exist any conclusive evidence to support that claim. Quote from Wikipedia:

No simple, single cause for sexual orientation has been conclusively demonstrated


Just because you write it in italics does not mean anything. So we cannot establish conclusively weather it is choice or not but what we can do is examine the consequences of either case and I have done that in my principle post.

You argue why would one chose homosexuality if it has negative consequences? That question can be asked in any situation, e.g. Why would a paedophile chose to be attracted to children and download illegal images when he knows he may face prison? Why would someone smoke when they know it can eventually kill them?
Original post by konvictz0007
You say homosexuality is not a choice but you have not provided any evidence, in fact there does not exist any conclusive evidence to support that claim. Quote from Wikipedia:



Just because you write it in italics does not mean anything. So we cannot establish conclusively weather it is choice or not but what we can do is examine the consequences of either case and I have done that in my principle post.


Lol no. Just because they don't know the specific cause doesn't mean that it is a choice. They have done many studies and conclusively shown it isn't a choice. Even if it were caused by social/environmental factors that wouldn't make it a choice. These things affect people on a subconscious level and a person has no say in it they do not get to 'choose' their sexual orientation.
Reply 257
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
Lol no. Just because they don't know the specific cause doesn't mean that it is a choice. They have done many studies and conclusively shown it isn't a choice. Even if it were caused by social/environmental factors that wouldn't make it a choice. These things affect people on a subconscious level and a person has no say in it they do not get to 'choose' their sexual orientation.


No I am sorry, there is no conclusive evidence to suggest it is not a choice. Please try again, and please cite some sources. Of course I am not suggesting it is a choice or it is not which is why I have done the rational thing and have examined both cases.

You are saying you do not know nor can explain the cause of homosexuality but you think you can conclusively say it is not choice?
Reply 258
Original post by Stefan1991
So you are okay with incest?


em, when you way up the pros and cons, yea I guess I am. As a civilisation we don't have the right to not only judge, but to label relationships we aren't part of. Just because we deem a modern hetrosexual relationship to be a man and a women having sex and eating in restaurants and going for walks, doesn't mean that's what all relationships consist of. Our society is, and should always be, entirely open to the individual and whatever they look for in life.
Original post by konvictz0007
No I am sorry, there is no conclusive evidence to suggest it is not a choice. Please try again, and please cite some sources. Of course I am not suggesting it is a choice or it is not which is why I have done the rational thing and have examined both cases.

You are saying you do not know nor can explain the cause of homosexuality but you think you can conclusively say it is not choice?


Yes there is. The APA acknowledges that one does not choose their sexual orientation. Why? Because they have done the research. Research shows that sexual orientation is observable and done developing at around age 6. Even considering social factors it has been concluded that there is no choosing.

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx