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Reply 40
I'll tell you what it's called 'banter'.

No need to bring out logic concepts, it's quite clear this thread wasn't logical in the first place. If you believe this then sorry but you've just wasted the last few years of your life, studying for something that you're terrible at.

My logic was fine, made sense. The logic of you getting annoyed that I proved you wrong is what made this argument turn silly. :wink:
Reply 41
I haven't read this, I won't read this, I will just think that I will make an amazing troll.

Ok I read it lol.

So you're saying that if 1,000,000,000 people compete against each other, there is an equal chance that 2 people competing against each other will be of the same standard as those who are in the top 0.1% of the 1,000,000,000 people ?

An EQUAL chance?

You have no need to use academic language, this is a simple debate. Your use of academic terms makes you look ridiculous, can't you see this?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by iSMark
I haven't read this, I won't read this, I will just think that I will make an amazing troll.

Ok I read it lol.

So you're saying that if 1,000,000,000 people compete against each other, there is an equal chance that 2 people competing against each other will be of the same standard as those who are in the top 0.1% of the 1,000,000,000 people ?

An EQUAL chance?


How does the number of people competing have anything to do with the standard of their abilities? I can have two professional football players go against each other and 10 gymnasts compete does that all of a sudden mean that the gymnasts are more competitive and are of a higher standard? No. Because that's illogical the amount of people competing doesn't change the standard to which one competes.
Reply 43
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
How does the number of people competing have anything to do with the standard of their abilities? I can have two professional football players go against each other and 10 gymnasts compete does that all of a sudden mean that the gymnasts are more competitive and are of a higher standard? No. Because that's illogical the amount of people competing doesn't change the standard to which one competes.


The more people that compete means that those who have the potential to be the very best footballers/gymnasts realise this potential.

E.g. in England the population is about 50 million?
If 1 million of those try to be a gymnast then that is the size of the pool of people you have trying to be the best gymnast and realising their potential.

If 25 million of those try to be a footballer then that is a larger pool of which are aiming to realise their potential, there is greater chance of finding the very best.

I could be an amazing gymnast, but how would I know? I've never tried it. I know that I'm an average Sunday league footballer though as I've tried it and compete in it.

Or another way of looking at it:

Which do you think is easier beating 10 people to be the number 1, or beating 10,000 people to be number 1?

This is simple, no need for any logical arguments against it. It's ridiculous what that Yank has done.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 44
Original post by 99luft Balons
I am a gymnast and some people say football is harder and some say gymnastics is harder. Both are my favourite sports.

I think if you compare a professional football player against a professional gymnast......that gymnastics is harder.

Gymnastics combines flexibility, muscle, perfection, balance, toughness, etc. They are doing all these things on a 4inch beam or flying high on those bars....it's crazy! I think gymnasts have to give up a lot more to go further in the sport because it is so select. Also, many people don't realize how professional gymnast are up at 4 in the morning and stay at the gym till late at night....it's a tough sport. And after all is said and done....very few gymnasts ever make it to the top.

It's also hard to compare because gymnastics is really more of an individual sport. I know they compete as a team in worlds and the Olympics....but success is really dependent upon you. Football is much more team-oriented...of course there are some stand out players....but no matter how good the players are if there isn't chemistry they are not always great!

Gymnastics must be miles harder. Although it's probably easier to be a pro gymnast than footballer. Being an amateur gymnast is alot harder than an amateur footballer, gymnastics requires alot of strength etc. Football is probably a better sport though imo.
Original post by iSMark
The more people that compete means that those who have the potential to be the very best footballers/gymnasts realise this potential.


This isn't true. unless everyone competes. Even then that isn't true. Potential and realizing that potential are not correlated to how many people compete :colonhash:

E.g. in England the population is about 50 million?
If 1 million of those try to be a gymnast then that is the size of the pool of people you have trying to be the best gymnast and realising their potential.

If 25 million of those try to be a footballer then that is a larger pool of which are aiming to realise their potential, there is greater chance of finding the very best.

I could be an amazing gymnast, but how would I know? I've never tried it. I know that I'm an average Sunday league footballer though as I've tried it and compete in it.


None of that is competitiveness. :s-smilie: Competitiveness has to do with the actually competition eg. the gymnastics competition or the football game. What you are talking about is finding potential, nobody can compete at the professional levels without training. You have to compete to get there.

Or another way of looking at it:

Which do you think is easier beating 10 people to be the number 1, or beating 10,000 people to be number 1?

This is simple, no need for any logical arguments against it. It's ridiculous what that Yank has done.


This is irrelevant. No you are inferring your chances of being number one. But chances don't infer easiness. The difficulty of winning depends on who you are competing against not the amount of people you are competing against.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by 99luft Balons
professional gymnasts train up to 35 hours a week.

and footballers just rock up on saturday after a week of playing xbox
Original post by iSMark
Football is the most popular sport in the world. Please give informed information instead of thoughts that pop into your head about China being BIG and stuff.....durrrrr.


Like I said Gymnastics is massive in large countries such as China ,Japan and Russia,Eastern Europe, Germany.China has a population of over 1 billion-1/6th of the world and gymnastics is more popular than football there at the moment.

You could argue, Cricket is probably more popular than football because of the size of India/Pakistan/Asia.Football's popularity is more widespread though.Does that mean football is easier than Cricket?

You think its easy to get into elite gymnastics , the competition is huge.Football is obviously more popular worldwide but there's high level of competition for gymnastics as well,much more than you think.Anyway,the popularity of the sport doesn't mean gymnastics is less tougher.I'd say Rugby is tougher, but it's nowhere near as popular as football.There are many sports out there way some consider harder than football e.g ice hockey,Lacrosse.

Anyway,you sound really thick so I won't bother :rolleyes:

One more thing thicko, there are loads of professional gymnasts out there, in China alone.Watch the 'gymnastic strength' video and tell me its easy.The training is one of the hardest there is.

[video="youtube;1egn6D4T82E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1egn6D4T82E[/video]

[video="youtube;KyitiFSns2c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyitiFSns2c[/video]

[video="youtube;Jh75841RxxI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh75841RxxI[/video]
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by iSMark
x


The only way your 'argument' about competitiveness makes sense is if you are talking about how competitive it is to make it onto a team. Then the amount of people trying out matters but that isn't the only thing that matters. It is a combination of how many people are competing and the number of spots available. So even then your 'logic' doesn't really apply. Even applying it anyway then gymnastics would be more competitive because there are less spots on the team so there is more pressure to out perform your competitors.

Not to mention competitiveness has what to do with how difficult a sport is? :s-smilie: You're so called logic isn't making sense.
Original post by iSMark
Well, thanks for getting personal. I'm not actually that fat, last time I checked I was 13 stone with 9% body fat.

So your friends generalise the whole of the football/rugby community? I don't think I would ever want to climb a rope like that, I was given legs for a reason. I don't challenge you to do 100 keepy ups with a football, because that would be silly, I would know you can't do that, you're a gymnast.


you don't need to be good at football to do that.

i can do about 20 and i don't even play football(and yeah with an actual real football). I've seen 7 years old little boys that can manage 100 keep ups,its not difficult to do.I'd say majority of guys can manage atleast 30.

a average gymnast can easily do football training but an average footballer would struggle to do even the basic gymnastic training.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by sarah124
You guys obviously do not have a clue about gymnastics.Gymnastics carries a huge mental burden on athletes. The goal of the sport is perfections. Every routine an athlete steps into they are trying their best to not make a mistake. If they make a big mistake or a small mistake there is no reset button the routine must go on,it could also lead to serious injuries such as being paralyzed.

I swear they practice for like a endless hours a week, and even if they don’t, it must feel like it. Gymnastics requires, sickening balance, mental toughness, body control, and even a bit of speed to get to that vault.

The wipe outs in gymnastics look painful as hell, and never mind the fact that the injuries are some of the worst in sports. I have personally watched 3 athletes blow their achillies tendons and I don’t watch it that much.

Generally, gymnasts are short, but incredibly strong and quite young while competing at an international level. I would think that this amount of training would be incredibly stressful on them as they have been training from the time they could walk. Also, they don’t have as long careers as footballers.

Most of the population of the world could not even do one practice of what people in gymnastics go through.


this

Original post by martin jol
and footballers just rock up on saturday after a week of playing xbox


gymnasts train much more longer hours than footballers,rugby players etc.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 51
Original post by frenchfries
you don't need to be good at football to do that.

i can do about 20 and i don't even play football(and yeah with an actual real football). I've seen 7 years old little boys that can manage 100 keep ups,its not difficult to do.I'd say majority of guys can manage atleast 30.

a average gymnast can easily do football training but an average footballer would struggle to do even the basic gymnastic training.


you can't do a 100 though can you?

So if you think I was suggesting that everyone who can do 100 keepy ups is a good footballer, then surely everyone who can climb up a rope without using there legs is a good gymnast, according to your way of thinking.

Wow...I'm a good gymnast then :smile:
All I can say is one of my mates is a gymnast & I wouldn't exactly want to start a fight with him :colondollar:
Reply 53
In a way, it is probably has some truth that football is more competitive. If we consider both footballers and gymnasts as a two markets, getting to the top of the football market would be much more difficult given the potential buyers in that market have so much to chose from. Gymnastics is a relatively small market in comparison as such not much competition as football to reach the top and be labelled "the best".

I could be wrong though here...

Let's asses some things:
(1) Gymnastics is simultaneously a team sport and an individual sport -- football is only a team sport. Which means in gymnastics you have to compete against your fellow teammates while ALSO competing against other teams. Football is only a team sport.


You don't compete against team-mates anywhere otherwise it isn't a team :s-smilie:

(2) People who compete in gymnastics are far more dedicated time-wise to their sport than football players -- they spend more time practicing than someone who does football


This would be a false assumption, footballers (some of the best ones) are absolutely dedicated to playing the game. On basis are you saying gymnasts spend more time practising?

(3) There is absolutely no way to logically deduce that football is 'more competitive' than gymnastics based on the number of people who play football. :confused:


see above.
Reply 54
Original post by S-man10
In a way, it is probably has some truth that football is more competitive. If we consider both footballers and gymnasts as a two markets, getting to the top of the football market would be much more difficult given the potential buyers in that market have so much to chose from. Gymnastics is a relatively small market in comparison as such not much competition as football to reach the top and be labelled "the best".

I could be wrong though here...



You don't compete against team-mates anywhere otherwise it isn't a team :s-smilie:



This would be a false assumption, footballers (some of the best ones) are absolutely dedicated to playing the game. On basis are you saying gymnasts spend more time practising?



see above.


Probably how I should have responded, a more level headed response. Thank you.
Reply 55
The physical toll on the body is far far greater in Gymnastics.

Any other attempt to differentiate based on other subjective criteria will ultimately yield biased results.
Reply 56
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
The difficulty of winning depends on who you are competing against not the amount of people you are competing against.


Exactly my sentiment, you are in fact proving me correct by saying this.

If you have 10,000 people competing against you it is a lot harder to be number 1 (win) than it is against 1 person, 99.99% of the time.

So sure you may be right 0.01% of the time, but I'm right 99.99% of the time.
Original post by iSMark
Exactly my sentiment, you are in fact proving me correct by saying this.

If you have 10,000 people competing against you it is a lot harder to be number 1 (win) than it is against 1 person, 99.99% of the time.

So sure you may be right 0.01% of the time, but I'm right 99.99% of the time.


Except no. That's not what you are saying. Again you are trying to say the number of people which as I said only applies to getting onto a team. But then it is more relevant how many spots there are available. I could be competing against 10,000 beginners and it would be less competitive than if I were competing against 10 of the best people. The amount of people doesn't change how competitive it is.
Original post by S-man10

You don't compete against team-mates anywhere otherwise it isn't a team :s-smilie:


Except in gymnastics you do compete against your team-mates. You compete both as individuals and as a team at the same time. That's how the sport works. :s-smilie:
Reply 59
Original post by RandZul'Zorander
Except no. That's not what you are saying. Again you are trying to say the number of people which as I said only applies to getting onto a team. But then it is more relevant how many spots there are available. I could be competing against 10,000 beginners and it would be less competitive than if I were competing against 10 of the best people. The amount of people doesn't change how competitive it is.


10,000 beginners? why would you choose that? because it suits your argument?

10,000 of the population, all of random abilities. VS. 1 person of the population of a random ability.

If your competing against 10,000 people you're more likely to come across someone who is gifted in that field.

If you compete against 1 person you're less likely to come across a gifted person than when against 10,000.

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