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Reply 180
Furthermore, if you actually study the history of banking and finance you will see that it's always been this way.

We work to serve the interests of the private banks and the corporate elites.

I'm a very productive person, but I admire people who benefit scrounge, as they're doing to the corporations what they've done to us - SCROUNGE off our hard work.

The funding for JSA and the like are like drops in the ocean compared to the wealth amassed by the elites who do very little other than SPECULATE to gain it.

The wealthy are the HARD WORKERS? PLEASE! Give me a break! The only days work they do is passing tax-breaks for themselves in the Houses of Parliament or Congress in the US.

Let's bring TRUE CAPITALISM back, and start calling corporatism aristocracy and capitalism true liberalism. By terminology, facts and statistics, that is the truth.
Original post by EffieFlowers
Labours priority is to a enable the possibility of as many people having a decent standard of living as possible.

Which is basically saying you want everybody to have a nice 3 bedroom semi-detached house, yes?

Original post by EffieFlowers
That is not a priority to the Tories, the disabled, the poor, the elderly aren't important really, why care about them?

Why do you treat elderly people as something different? They have had 50 years to make plans to save/have care and what do they do- nothing and RELY ON OTHERS (see the link between Labour supporters here- relying on others. This is why you all bang on about "society" because you just cant be bothered to do things for yourselves- "society" should do it for you).

Original post by EffieFlowers
And OP, you do realise right, that the recession would have been inevitable under any government right? But we are back in recession aren't we? Want to know why? The Tories ridiculous cuts, they were warned that their cuts were too harsh, too soon when our economy was still vulnerable. Unemployment figures have risen, more people are on the dole. And that is entirely down to the Tories.

Oh god you really are stupid arent you? What do you do to pay off a credit card? Spend more money or make cuts in your lifestyle? :wink:
Original post by Radradrad
What I hate about Labour is that they swan about with all these ideas about how they want a small state and think the state shouldn't intervene in the lives of subjects and then once they get a tiny bit of power decide that they want to stop certain groups getting married and have the right to arbitrarily read email's and social media. Thank god we don't live in a nanny state like that anymore!

You obviously grew up under a Labour education system......

Original post by Radradrad
Seriously though, I vote Labour because I believe in what I see as some of their core values; non-profit and non marketised front-line services, social justice and equality and the need for progressive taxation. Although these ideas are different from the modern Labour Party so I will just moan about them whilst voting for them anyway.

What do you mean equality? Can you please tell me how/what you want as equality?
Original post by Mattyboi69
Speaking of the treasury, remember Gordon Brown's little stint with the gold bullion, selling it for next to nothing?


Gordon Brown's move with the gold WAS ridiculous, but then what about Cameron's privatisation of himself? A 250,000 deposit to the Tory party to see him. And what about the Tories who actually are being paid by private firms to promote the NHS privatisation?
Original post by YahRah
I beg to differ.


My parents both support labour, neither one them has been unemployed ONCE since they were 16, find a better record than THAT. They're both in their mid forties now. It's obvious that you don't live in an inner city area, since the tory government came in EVER statistic has gotten a worse score in areas such as those i live in, and consider they came into power AFTER the recession. My school has less funding, youth programmes no longer exist, our NHS has less money and many of my peers aren't applying to university because they can't afford it. While the Labour government were in power it went the OPPOSITE way and although they were responsible for letting the financial sector going mad NO-ONE said to stop so the idea that the SAME things would not have happened under a conservative or Lib dem government is ridiculous.
Reply 185
Original post by That Bearded Man
Gordon Brown's move with the gold WAS ridiculous, but then what about Cameron's privatisation of himself? A 250,000 deposit to the Tory party to see him. And what about the Tories who actually are being paid by private firms to promote the NHS privatisation?


Nationalisation is a failed experiment. Privatisation saves both lives and money.
Original post by pellejema
As well as hatred for those less fortunate than you (might I remind you that it is not down to your hard work and virtue if you were born into a more well off family),

But most tory supporters weren't born into well-off families.... ?? Do you seriously think there are 9 million posh people in the UK????

Once again, I need to remind a Labour supporter somebody earning £21k isn't "rich" :wink:


Original post by pellejema
It's still seen as a party that represents the rich by a lot of people; why would you vote Conservative if it didn't represent your interests or your ideology?

Can you please tell me why it's ok Labour are a party for the poor, but Tories being a party for the "rich" is bad? Why should "rich" people be represented less than poor people?

The other thing I REALLY hate about left wingists is that poor = innocent. Absolute crap! You tell me why some idiot messing about at school, has kids at 18 and then needs to live on benefits is innocent?

It's people like you who have ruined (Once great) Britain. In the 18th century we kept you out of politics and that's probably why we had the empire!


Original post by pellejema
In short, 'what motivates people to vote Labour' is exactly the same driving forces that motivates people to vote any political party.

Yes but tory voters don't push for this concept of "society" so that "society" can pay their council tax bill, pay for their kids, pay for their EMA, pay for their house rent etc....

Pretty good thing this "society" isn't it??
Original post by stac4321
If money was a direct result of hard work, every woman in Africa would be a ****ing millionaire.

In the UK hard work = rewarded (well, before Labour taxed the crap out of everyone).
Original post by YahRah
I beg to differ.


What a ridiculous statement. My parents both vote labour and they have very stable jobs.
Reply 189
Original post by billydisco
But you did vote for your own interests? (See, can tell you're a Labour supporter already.....).



Don't worry mate, you arent the only lefty to be, it's just you can admit it.
Haha, very fluent argument, you're not only eloquent but funny


Paedophiles and rapists are part of society, do you love them too?

So having a social conscience is equated to loving rapists? Wow, you are incredulous.


1) Since when were they cutting front line services TO give tax breaks to the super rich? They are cutting front line services to cut the £trillion debt the party you vote for, created.

Since, that's the way it's always been. Depressions and recessions are not caused by the public. They're caused by the elite; to which the public bails THEM out. We suffer due to their mistakes. Do some BASIC research into the financial system.

2) Ok so you being a leftie why don't you bring in some actual arguments instead of just pointing "leftie" - you're like a kid in the playground, I have to give you an economics lesson. Who creates wealth? Answer: the rich.Answer: The poor. The wealthy create banks using fractional banking (they loan money out that they don't actually have in their reserves). The poor WORK to pay these back with interest, i.e. the poor WORK and hence CREATE VALUE. What happens when you tax the rich (who own five homes)? Answer: they move and locate permanently in one of their other four homes. What does this mean? Answer: Britain loses a rich person and the entrepreneurship they brought along. Or Britain loses somebody who is leeching off of us and we're all the better off. Look at the countries that are the most egalitarian: Sweden, Netherlands, Switzerland etc etc. They don't have terrible economies, hardly hit by the recession and they have a fairer and more equal system. They have almost no poverty but also less elites - so my response to the elites would be "see ya". If you look at all the poor nations in the world (The US and the UK included), we all work off this system that you propose which isn't working, never has worked except to serve the interests of a few.

I have a better answer, besides physically/mentally disabled people, why don't all those "poor" people (who ironically still manage to own iphone 4s, sky digital, ps3s and widescreen tvs) actually achieve something in life and stop blaming and relying on others? Haha, this is ironic as you won't achieve anything under the Tories. Under conservative control, there is less lending, less social mobility, less access to education etc.

As Labour becomes more popular (Great) Britain slowly gets destroyed....Oooh, the classic Doomsday scenario that you Tories love to propogate... SHOW ME SOME FACTS OR EXAMPLES LIKE I HAVE PROVIDED ABOVE "MATE"


:smile:
Original post by Bornblue
I just don't think the wealthy snobs on here can understand that some people are less fortunate and need the help of the government. Some people ie cleaners can work incredibly hard, work twelve hours a day and get paid next to nothing.

What did they do at school? How many of them achieved?

How many of your cleaners (say the ones in their twenties) messed about, achieved nothing and HAD to settle for a cleaners job on crap pay?

Innocent? She made the decision to mess about! Why should I have to work hard at school whilst this cleaner messed around AND I have to work hard and pay high taxes later on, just to pay for her mistakes?
Original post by escape
The Conservative government have to stop blaming the last lot for the recession. It was a global economic crisis that hit the USA hardest, and yet they are growing again and we're in a double dip recession. That's Osborne's fault. Their plans to take money from the front line and give it in tax breaks to the highest earners only makes sense when the economy is flourishing and people have jobs. Otherwise it's just cruel. It makes me want to weep that George Osborne is my MP, and that my grandparents think the sun shines from him. His economic policies punish the poor in our society for the crime of being poor. IMO, that's criminal.
And that's why I vote Labour.


The USA are growing at the expense of their credit rating, which is exactly what Osborne is trying to preserve in order to control the debt burden.
Original post by LoveyRae
Yes, I am 'playing that card' because otherwise there would be far more people like you in the world, who are seem to be simply inconsiderate of other people.

Why would I be considerate of people who didn't take school seriously and then become unstuck? (Please answer this...)

Original post by LoveyRae
There are plenty of people on this forum who support Labour, several of whom will fit none of the 'descriptions' you give. You are insulting them and suggesting that we should all have one political alliance, which is more in line with what dictators think. Are you seriously suggesting that one's political alliance determines one's right to life? I do not think that if we had a Labour government, the rest of the country would not survive (I'm reluctant to say die because that is such a hyperbole).

I didn't work hard at university to be taxed the crap out of, to pay for:

-People who messed about at school
-Pensioners who spent spent spent their whole lives
-People who think they have a right to have kids whilst they are unemployed

Original post by LoveyRae
Your suggestion seems to be to cast off the weaker members of community to fend for themselves, that you do not believe in the concept of community. It would be a very dangerous time if everyone were to be selfish and simply supported themselves, it would turn to anarchy. To quote Hobbes, 'the life of man [would be] solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short'.

I have studied Hobbes (and Locke) and I believe in survival of the fittest.

What happened in the earlier 20th century before the welfare state? It was tough- but they all found work/money eventually! Before you say we had an empire back then, which party dismantled it? :wink:
Original post by Alofleicester
Why?
Everyone who lives in the country will be affected by what the government does, obviously children will be sheltered somewhat by being under the care of an adult, but all those of working age will be affected by what the government does and should be able to have their say on what sort of government should be running the country (which is also why I advocate lowering the voting age to 16).

Because if they don't contribute, they don't get a say!

Stakeholders of a company are affected by a company's actions, but only the shareholders get to vote at the AGM....
Original post by Lumos
looking beyond your own needs and thinking of what will benefit others. I don't benefit from higher taxes and state welfare, but a lot of people do. I'd rather vote for a party that promotes equality than one which keeps me comfortable at the expense of others.

Can you please elaborate on equality? How the hell can you make humans equal when they're clearly not naturally?
Original post by politics_student
or on the other side, suggesting that the Labour Party represents the 'idle'

Labour DO represent the idle, but they're not Labour's whole voting base. However, Labour do represent the underachieving. In this country very few people have a valid reason to underachieve.
Original post by J_89
Wow, what a brainwashed puppet you are. Mind you, I don't blame you (no wait I do - get a brain!), it's endemic in our society.

People vote Labour because they serve their own economic interests. No, not to scrounge (like your Tory puppet-masters told you), but to ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO GET A JOB.

Conservative policies do not "create jobs" - again bs from the masters - they transfer all the wealth to the aristocracy (I believe today they are known as the major corporations).

And then they brainwash the public with insufferable rhetoric:

- Good is bad
- Sponging off the people is noble
- The people sponging off you back is bad
- They create jobs

The banking and finance industries are controlled by a small amount of people.

In truth, conservativism and capitalism are incompattible. Conservatism doesn't want free-markets - it wants the elite/aristocracy/corporations (whatever you want to call them) to have a MONOPOLY OVER ALL OF US. INCLUDING small businesses. Tories don't champion small business! They champion their rich pals and anyone who is not in that bracket and votes for them are absolute morons. Liberalism and capitalism are compattible, as liberals believe in merit as the way to achieve financial gain.

It is only communists who believe in equality of results, and when you look at the regimes that actually practice communism, they are RIGHT-WING, let me repeat that: RIGHT-WING as hell.

So calling all liberals communists DOESNT WASH anymore.

Intellectuals are tired of the rhetoric and brainless sheep like you. I don't care what you think "Gordon Brown did to your family." GROW A BRAIN.

What an UTTER lot of nonsense!

Why do Tories unofficially support Grammar schools if they are champions of the aristocracy? Why is Kent getting a new Grammar school because of it's Tory MP and Tory Kent County Council?

You do realise a couple of etonians at the top doesnt mean major conspiracy, right?
Original post by billydisco
What did they do at school? How many of them achieved?

How many of your cleaners (say the ones in their twenties) messed about, achieved nothing and HAD to settle for a cleaners job on crap pay?

Innocent? She made the decision to mess about! Why should I have to work hard at school whilst this cleaner messed around AND I have to work hard and pay high taxes later on, just to pay for her mistakes?


Nice bit of prejudice there. You know we can't have a society full of lawyers, doctors, brain surgeons, accountants etc. We need people to do these jobs, we need people to do office jobs, cleaners, builders etc and other such professions.

So are you assuming every cleaner didn't work at school? Well maybe, just maybe some of these people in lesser jobs weren't granted the same opportunity as you. Maybe some of them weren't born into rich families, lived in a council house and were forced to go to a cr*p school. Not everyone can be gifted academically, If bin men went on strike for a month we'd miss them a heck of a lot more than we would lawyers, or accountants.

So stop being a prejudicial, arragont idiot and realize some people need a bit of extra help.

So all you have done in that message is prove you have a rather large amount of jealousy for wealthy people- do you even know any?

I personally know a lot of millionaires and they are FAR nicer people than some of the scumbags from where I grew up.... (who Labour represent).

Oh well, at least we have our money and can watch all you jealous Labour supporters suffer when you lose your jobs :wink:
Reply 199
Original post by Joe909
The OP isn't ignorant, you are.


Wow. Just wow. Well done on being a tool.

I didn't call him ignorant by the way, your powers of observation have let you down :/

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