If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
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If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.
http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/
God does not follow the first rule at all.
The bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or sin.
This shows that what many thinks is our number one moral value was completely ignored by God.
Is God immoral or has man gotten morality wrong?
If God was right, then are we to believe that fathers are to bury their children instead of the way people think in that children should bury their parents?
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.”
On earth as it is in heaven.
If you had God’s power to set the conditions for atonement, would you step up yourself or would you send your child to die?
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.From what I understand, proponents the Abrahamic religions believe god is the instigator of any objective morality that governs us and is thus isn't bound under it himself. God commands us not to kill (Apart from all those gristly bits in the OT, but that doesn't count anymore apparently) but does so himself on quite a few occasions, for example.
Last edited by Gofre; 09-06-2012 at 15:50. -
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.Yeah, in my experience this comes up a lot.From what I understand, proponents the Abrahamic religions believe god is the instigator of any objective morality that governs us and is thus isn't bound under it himself. God commands us not to kill (Apart from all those gristly bits in the OT, but that doesn't count anymore apparently) but does so himself on quite a few occasions, for example.
Most of the monotheistic religions put god as the sole creator of objective moral and therefore above them. He can break any rule he sets since he can just say it is ok and therefore it is. Think ultimate dictator. Basically, God doesn't have to make sense, because he is god.Last edited by Aoide; 09-06-2012 at 16:01. -
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.You would think that resorting to "god as hypocrite" in order to keep your belief system vaguely coherent would be a warning sign for people.(Original post by Gofre)
From what I understand, proponents the Abrahamic religions believe god is the instigator of any objective morality that governs us and is thus isn't bound under it himself. God commands us not to kill (Apart from all those gristly bits in the OT, but that doesn't count anymore apparently) but does so himself on quite a few occasions, for example. -
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.(Original post by Hypocrism)
Religious people will come in here and claim that we cannot understand god and he is outside human morality, just 'cos
If so then point out to them that A & E had human minds and that scriptures show that our minds can understand God's moral sense as it shows us that knowing the good and evil that God gave for information, can be understood by both him and us.
If we could not then we could not follow his lead as scriptures tell us to do.
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.I am not debating God's existence at present but his moral position as shown in the bible.(Original post by Natalya)
I am confused...please expand on your idea?
Do you...
A believe God exists.
B believe God does not exist
...and you are proving that by...?
Speak to the morality and then I will discuss other issues.
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.He is shown that way for sure and that is why I want to keep the discussion on his, to me, poor morality and how it goes against what may be the universal standard shown in that Ted clip.(Original post by Gofre)
From what I understand, proponents the Abrahamic religions believe god is the instigator of any objective morality that governs us and is thus isn't bound under it himself. God commands us not to kill (Apart from all those gristly bits in the OT, but that doesn't count anymore apparently) but does so himself on quite a few occasions, for example.
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.Might makes right to them as they suffer from Stockholm syndrome.(Original post by mmmpie)
You would think that resorting to "god as hypocrite" in order to keep your belief system vaguely coherent would be a warning sign for people.
Fear the lord enough and he will love you.
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.Hm, an interesting point. Did A+E understand God's morality, or just accept it as truth? Because if they did understand it, and then gained knowledge from the apple, wouldn't they MORE than understand God's morality?(Original post by Greatest I am)
If so then point out to them that A & E had human minds and that scriptures show that our minds can understand God's moral sense as it shows us that knowing the good and evil that God gave for information, can be understood by both him and us.
If we could not then we could not follow his lead as scriptures tell us to do.
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.Ohhh...I get it kind of...well, if I think I know what you're talking about...then you are saying that God is hypocrite?? That he is allowed to break any rule he gives the humans?
Talk about setting a bad example.
Well, I concur... -
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.I think a case can be made for that yes. If you consider that they had their own animal sense of morality, that goes to survival, plus the moral sense of God.(Original post by Hypocrism)
Hm, an interesting point. Did A+E understand God's morality, or just accept it as truth? Because if they did understand it, and then gained knowledge from the apple, wouldn't they MORE than understand God's morality?
That may be why Eve, after becoming as God, chose to initiate Adam instead of following God's command that she would now understand as evil.
None should deny their children knowledge of damned near everything which is what many think is encompassed in the knowledge of good and evil.
You might note that the Jews who wrote Genesis saw Eden as man's elevation. It was the Christians who later called it a fall.
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.Nice.(Original post by Natalya)
Ohhh...I get it kind of...well, if I think I know what you're talking about...then you are saying that God is hypocrite?? That he is allowed to break any rule he gives the humans?
Talk about setting a bad example.
Well, I concur...
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.That's made me want to overthrow God. Maybe we can give NATO a call to bomb heaven, as though that solves anything? :P(Original post by Aoide)
Think ultimate dictator. -
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.Not to the 8 that did unto others and helped God along with that project.(Original post by Aoide)
I wonder if mass flooding your civilians counts as a humanitarian crisis.
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Re: If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.Whether a God exists or not isn't the point, the point is, if He does indeed exist, then is He classed as a moral authority, despite his obvious moral contradictions, or is he correct in every way?(Original post by Natalya)
I am confused...please expand on your idea?
Do you...
A believe God exists.
B believe God does not exist
...and you are proving that by...?Last edited by Ridingmyego; 11-06-2012 at 18:30.
