[tellmeimawreckk]

could you please read through and check my essay for me?
it's about why university fee's should be lowered
I'm a bit unsure about the bit about chavs because I don't know if it would be offensive or not and maybe I should take it out?
please change/correct/add anything you want


£9,000. What can you do with £9,000? Have a nice relaxing holiday with your whole family? Maybe buy a new car? Or go to university. It’s bad enough that we have to put in the effort of attending school, and not to mention the time and money put in for buying the smart clothes and the best books, and having the best stationary but on top of all of that, we have to be in debt for the rest of our lives in order to pay for it; that is for those of us who don’t have 'generous parents'. As well as being in a ridiculous amount of debt with the government, you still have to pay for everything else, like living costs, visiting your family, and of course, social events which is a major part of university life. Nowadays, I even see people as old as 35 who haven’t paid off their loans; and that was before the prices were not only doubled, but tripled in a huge jump from £3000 to £9000. This is more ridiculous than Kim Kardashian’s 72 day marriage.
People say that the raised fees are good - they motivate people to work harder to get through university; knowing that they are paying so much for their education. I, myself, find some truth in this as I have too been motivated. Motivated to never go to university till I'm about 30 and can afford it!
Also, I think what the government have failed to see - other than the millions of people protesting against the raised fees - is that we are in recession and surprisingly, not everyone is able to come up with the money to do even 2 years in university - that is unless they have an arm and a leg up for sale. Anyway, last time I checked, it’s not exactly like the UK is bursting with brainiacs; which can be nicely reflected by our parliament, so why do they just seem to push us to other countries for university and jobs?
With unemployment rates increasing, people are begging for scholarships just to try and get that rare degree. However, with higher fees and less people able to pay them, getting a scholarship is like finding a needle in a haystack - and with the UK's population growing, things are only just going to get more competitive. So for those of you who have finally completed primary school, secondary school and college, those 18 years of your life you spent working till your fingers dropped off probably will be worth as much as a blank piece of paper.
Universities should be free because this will give a more positive aspect towards universities. If the government wants to increase educational rate in university, they should increase access to these universities, which could be made by providing a free charge education, or at the very least lowering the fee. Nowadays, with the rate of our economic growth, the economy won’t develop powerfully without people’s knowledge. And as you’ve all heard throughout your educational career, education is the key to success and I completely agree; to succeed, you must have a proper education as this will create more people who have the potential to make a change to this unfair country. It will encourage more people to attend which will decrease the unemployment rate which will raise the economy. There we go – recession sorted. Also, it will give people a greater sense of equality of opportunity, as some students may not have the money to pay back their student loans and may be incapable of getting jobs. There we go – number of chavs in the country decline.
But on a serious note, many students from underprivileged families have the drive and mentality to do well for them so they can make a better life for themselves and their family. And for the government to deny these students who want to advance themselves in society would be anachronistic. We, as a society, have moved on from the time of discrimination and segregation. We, as a society, are equal. We all have the same rights. And those rights should not be denied to us because of our financial status.
And we all know that the only people the raise has been advantageous for is the government; who only care that they had to give out a few bank loans before the fees rocketed to £9000. Though, surely if the fees are higher, even more people will have to take out bank loans. Though this time the banks will have to risk losing triple as to what they would before. For example, my cousin wants to do medicine. It’s a good course, but it lasts 5 years, so previously she could afford it - after all it was only £15,000 for an education which would last her a lifetime. But, with the new and not improved prices, it will cost around £45,000 for only 5 years! It is completely unfair that just because you want to have a good career, which means more years in university, you have to pay thousands and thousands of pounds more than those who don’t. This means that the bank have to risk about £30,000 not being paid back. Yes, like many things, I don’t think the government thought this through.

[LooseLogic]

I'm going to comment on you argument(s). I'm sorry if I sound overly harsh / critical, but I think you need to flesh them out a bit and do some more research on what the impact of the tuition fee rise will actually be in real terms. It isn't anywhere near as bad as you think it is and it isn't a reason to delay university until you're 30.

(Original post by tellmeimawreckk)
£9,000. What can you do with £9,000? Have a nice relaxing holiday with your whole family? Maybe buy a new car? Or go to university. It’s bad enough that we have to put in the effort of attending school,

Yes, a real hardship

I like the idea behind the opening though.

and not to mention the time and money put in for buying the smart clothes and the best books, and having the best stationary

I get what you're trying to say, but this maybe isn't the best way of wording it.

You're going to learn, not partake in a fashion parade. Most people give up trying to look great all the time after the first few weeks; there isn't a dress code that requires smart clothing. Most people have clothes before going to university.

Books can be found free of charge in the university library, online, or if you have to buy then most can be got second hand from previous students who don't need them anymore. Just because your professor is trying to get you to buy it doesn't mean you actually have to.

As for stationary, pen and paper are hardly expensive commodities. There will probably be some kind of fair type thing in freshers where companies advertise themselves to people new to the city and hand out stationary with their name on. Collect pens here. I don't know what kind of sixth form / college you go to but at mine we had to provide our own anyway and it cost me more then than it has at university. But, I do a technical subject with few essays.

but on top of all of that, we have to be in debt for the rest of our lives in order to pay for it; that is for those of us who don’t have 'generous parents'.

Right, because a mortgage isn't a debt? How about credit cards? Welcome to the real world, where you will almost always owe something to someone.

A student loan is one of the best loans you'll ever get. You only start paying it back once you're earning over 21k and its only a percentage of the amount you are exceeding that figure by. If your income falls below it then you stop paying and anything you have outstanding gets written off after x number of years (I don't know because it doesn't affect me so I haven't researched it - you should). If you miss mortgage payments then you lose your house.

As well as being in a ridiculous amount of debt with the government, you still have to pay for everything else, like living costs, visiting your family, and of course, social events which is ARE major part of university life.

What!? You mean you have to be responsible for yourself, learn how to budget and how to live within your means? RIDICULOUS!

Again, I get what you're saying but I don't think you've expressed it very well. Maintenance loans / grants are separate from tuition loans, but you're still getting them from the government and they should be used to pay for everything else. If you're talking about accommodation prices being too high, or that you think there isn't enough funding available for living costs then you really need to clarify that here.

Nowadays, I even see people as old as 35 who haven’t paid off their loans; and that was before the prices were not only doubled, but tripled in a huge jump from £3000 to £9000. This is more ridiculous than Kim Kardashian’s 72 day marriage.

35 is super old? Right.

You'll always be in debt. The student loan should be at the bottom of the repayment order (mortgage near the top) as it is such a good deal in comparison. Some people work their whole lives and never pay off their mortgage.

People say that the raised fees are good - they motivate people to work harder to get through university; knowing that they are paying so much for their education. I, myself, find some truth in this as I have too been motivated. Motivated to never go to university till I'm about 30 and can afford it!

I think you need to take a long, hard look at how funding works. There are very, very few young people who could afford to pay tuition upfront even under to previous structure, which is why tuition fee loans exist. You have to be able to afford the living costs, yes, but the government helps with this too and so do universities. The fee raise doesn't mean you can't go to university.

Also, I think what the government have failed to see - other than the millions of people protesting against the raised fees - is that we are in recession and surprisingly, not everyone is able to come up with the money to do even 2 years in university - that is unless they have an arm and a leg up for sale.

Lucky that no one has to then, isn't it?

Anyway, last time I checked, it’s not exactly like the UK is bursting with brainiacs; which can be nicely reflected by our parliament, so why do they just seem to push us to other countries for university and jobs?

Uhh, they're not? Or do you mean that people will look abroad because of the fee hike? Is funding available through student finance if you study abroad? (I don't know; I'm asking you).

I think you need to clarify your argument here. If you have sources with figures that would be good too.

With unemployment rates increasing, people are begging for scholarships just to try and get that rare degree.

Degrees aren't rare. If they were then you wouldn't need one to get a look in at large firms. Full scholarships are rare and an American thing because they don't have the student finance system we have in this country.

However, with higher fees and less people able to pay them, getting a scholarship is like finding a needle in a haystack - and with the UK's population growing, things are only just going to get more competitive.

Scholarships are available through universities in the form of bursaries. There are actually more of them available now under the new structure than there were previously due to government requirements on universities that are charging the full £9k. This is a good thing as you are still only responsible for paying living costs for yourself throughout the year, but there are more funding options available from universities themselves. Tuition is covered (as it always has been) by the tuition fee loan.

So for those of you who have finally completed primary school, secondary school and college, those 18 years of your life you spent working till your fingers dropped off probably will be worth as much as a blank piece of paper.

Why are the 18 years of education prior to uni worthless? If the number of people with degrees deceases then the value of good grades at college level would increase.

Universities should be free because this will give a more positive aspect towards universities.

This argument is poorly worded. You're actual argument for them being free seems to be that this will increase access and help drive the economy, so you should put this instead of "more positive aspect...".

If the government wants to increase educational rate in university, they should increase access to these universities, which could be made by providing a free charge education, or at the very least lowering the fee.

"Educational rate": what does this mean? Quality of education or the number of people educated to university level?

From the opening few sentences I was expecting this to pop up at some point. It is infeasible for university to be free. It cannot happen and, actually, would reduce the quality of education because they wouldn't be able to afford quality teaching staff or teaching resources. University in the UK is fairly cheap because the government subsidises it so much - take a look at US tuition fees (which DO have to be paid in full by the student and not through government loans). Is 18 years of free education not enough for you? Take a look outside The West and realise just how lucky you are to be living in this country with the wealth of opportunities it provides to you.

Nowadays, with the rate of our economic growth, the economy won’t develop powerfully without people’s knowledge. And as you’ve all heard throughout your educational career, education is the key to success and I completely agree; to succeed, you must have a proper education as this will create more people who have the potential to make a change to this unfair country.

Explain what is unfair about the country in the context of tuition fees please as full tuition loans are available to all irrespective of background.

An argument could be made that the financial assessment process is unfair or it's unfair for some universities to charge more than others, but you have made no attempt at this here.

To be honest, you sound like you just want free stuff that you don't have to work for. University isn't a basic human right; the government are under no obligation to give it to you. If the maintenance loan / grant(s) aren't enough then get a job, or take a gap year and save up during that. It'll be worth it in the end because so many firms require a degree to get even an interview (and work experience to get a job offer).

It will encourage more people to attend which will decrease the unemployment rate which will raise the economy. There we go – recession sorted.

The number of university places are set by the government because they are all subsidised. If university was free then the government wouldn't be able to make as many places available, so fewer people would be able to attend.

Having a degree doesn't guarantee a job, so even if university places worked the way you think it does then unemployment wouldn't necessarily decrease. That is dependent on the number of jobs available.

You're "recession sorted" comment is incredibly ignorant of the way economies work.

Also, it will give people a greater sense of equality of opportunity, as some students may not have the money to pay back their student loans and may be incapable of getting jobs. There we go – number of chavs in the country decline.

You're right - this is offensive. Loans have always been written off after x number of years or after the student is y years old. I think you mean for the chav thing to be directed at only the people incapable of getting jobs, in which case you don't want to be using "and" in that sentence.

But on a serious note, many students from underprivileged families have the drive and mentality to do well for themselves so they can make a better life for themselves and their family. And for the government to deny these students who want to advance themselves in society would be anachronistic. We, as a society, have moved on from the time of discrimination and segregation. We, as a society, are equal. We all have the same rights. And those rights should not be denied to us because of our financial status.

I see what you're trying to do and I think it's a good idea, but I think you need to rework it a bit as no one has the right to a university level education. However, everyone has the right to equal opportunities of getting a university level education and in this country they do - mostly - as university is open to everyone regardless of their economic background. You could ague that those living in poorer areas and attending poorer schools would struggle to compete against privately educated students at top universities. It doesn't really have anything to do with tuition fees though as everyone attending the university gets charged the same - an indication of our equal society.

Students from underprivileged families receive more living cost money from student finance, and more of it is as a grant rather than a loan in order to compensate for their background. I myself fall into this category and this year, my final year, I received over £6000 from student finance alone and almost half of it was as a grant that I will never have to pay back. I also worked during the summer and received a bursary from both work and the university totaling £1500 + £1500 each, excluding wages.

I've found £6000 is more than enough money for rent, food, utilities and a social life. I could actually live on £2k less, but would have to consult my bank balance more often. I may not be able to be a party animal and buy designer clothing with it but I am a student; I have no income of my own throughout the year. The government funding is not supposed to fund the lifestyle you want to be living - that is the purpose of getting a degree to be able to build a better life for yourself once in employment. My time at university has made me really look forward to the stage of my life where I will be able to buy whatever I want (in comparison to now), and I know I'll appreciate that kind of financial freedom so much more.

And we all know that the only people the raise has been advantageous for is the government; who only care that they had to give out a few bank loans before the fees rocketed to £9000. Though, surely if the fees are higher, even more people will have to take out bank loans. Though this time the banks will have to risk losing triple as to what they would before.

Why would anyone need to take out a bank loan to pay tuition? Get it from student finance it is the best deal you will ever get on a loan.

The tuition fee raises were an austerity measure as a result of the credit crunch. So yes, I guess they are only benefiting the banks, however I would rather these kind of cuts were made than cuts to the NHS, personally.

For example, my cousin wants to do medicine. It’s a good course, but it lasts 5 years, so previously she could afford it - after all it was only £15,000 for an education which would last her a lifetime. But, with the new and not improved prices, it will cost around £45,000 for only 5 years! It is completely unfair that just because you want to have a good career, which means more years in university, you have to pay thousands and thousands of pounds more than those who don’t. This means that the bank have to risk about £30,000 not being paid back. Yes, like many things, I don’t think the government thought this through.

I'm not going to comment specifically on your example because I think the NHS gets involved in medicine funding and I have no clue how it works. However, I really, really don't think that your cousin would have to pay £45k tuition fees upfront themselves - student finance / NHS would cover it somehow.

You say "only 5 years!" which is confusing because your use of "only" implies the opposite of what you are arguing.

Medicine has always been more expensive because it is a longer course, even under the old structure. You pay by year regardless of degree, so someone who takes 5 years to complete a history degree will be paying the same as the medical student. Except, of course, that it costs the university a lot more to train a doctor than it does a history student. The medical student gets more spent on them per head than the history student per year, so perhaps it is unfair to the history student to have to subsidise the medical student in this way? I'm not saying I think this is a good idea, I'm just illustrating that different people have a different opinion on fairness and it tends to depend a lot on how they themselves are affected by it.

Again, I'm sorry if I sound overly critical. It's not that I think this is bad, I just think you need to expand your arguments more (and I don't think you should write off university because of the fee hike). Sorry for the wall of text.

[markpeterson]

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[markpeterson]

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