Why is it fair for people with money to get a better education than me?
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Original post by Miracle Day
But the facts do. And people can't really argue with them.
You're as stubborn as im so academic
And that's saying something.
Original post by House MD
You're as stubborn as im so academic And that's saying something.
And that's saying something.Not really. I just haven't seen a decent reason on here why they should stay.
Original post by LSD
But then 50% aren't...
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
The idea is that 8% of children occupy 50% of Oxbridge places
Original post by Miracle Day
Not really. I just haven't seen a decent reason on here why they should stay.
You're ignoring all decent reasons.
We’re often told that only seven per cent of the British population is educated in private schools. But how does that translate into raw numbers? I checked the Department for Education’s official website and in 2007/08 there were 628,400 pupils currently on roll at private schools, 278,700 aged 4-10, 349,700 aged 11-19.
What would it cost the taxpayer to educate these children in the state sector? The average cost of educating a child of primary school age is £3,975. So that’s £1.107 billion to educate the 4-10-year-olds and £2.273 billion to educate the 11-19-year-olds. That’s £3.38 billion that HMG would have to find in additional revenue funding every year.
But where would we put them? Anyone with children of school age like me will be painfully aware that we’ve run out of room in our schools. The school estate is bursting at the seams. There isn’t enough room to accommodate our growing population, let alone a sudden influx of 628,400 pupils.
To educate the 349,700 11-19-year-olds alone, you’d need to build 208 new eight form entry secondary schools, each capable of accommodating 1,680 pupils. Under the last government, the average cost of building an 8FE secondary school was £28 million. So that’s another £5.824 billion in capital costs just to educate the 11-19-year-olds.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100114147/should-private-schools-be-abolished/
What would it cost the taxpayer to educate these children in the state sector? The average cost of educating a child of primary school age is £3,975. So that’s £1.107 billion to educate the 4-10-year-olds and £2.273 billion to educate the 11-19-year-olds. That’s £3.38 billion that HMG would have to find in additional revenue funding every year.
But where would we put them? Anyone with children of school age like me will be painfully aware that we’ve run out of room in our schools. The school estate is bursting at the seams. There isn’t enough room to accommodate our growing population, let alone a sudden influx of 628,400 pupils.
To educate the 349,700 11-19-year-olds alone, you’d need to build 208 new eight form entry secondary schools, each capable of accommodating 1,680 pupils. Under the last government, the average cost of building an 8FE secondary school was £28 million. So that’s another £5.824 billion in capital costs just to educate the 11-19-year-olds.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100114147/should-private-schools-be-abolished/
It's simply not viable.
I think generally private schools do better because parents are paying for a higher standard of education, but I think it's also down to the individual too. I went to a state school and there was quite a handful of people who achieved A*s. If you're willing to work hard and independently it's possible.
I was predicted a C for history, but I worked really hard and did lots of independent study and got an A in the paper
was very pleased.
I was predicted a C for history, but I worked really hard and did lots of independent study and got an A in the paper
was very pleased.I went to a state primary school and it just wasn't very good. There were bigger classes, people didn't try as hard and didn't pass on that work ethos to the others and the teachers were just average. I know go to a all girls private school and the teaching standard is so much better and everyone is so much nicer (but that may be due to the fact my primary school wasn't very nice). It still has its problems like drugs and alcohol but don't all schools?
I personally think they should bring back grammar schools. But I don't think universities should penalise private school kids. The reason I go to a private school is because the state schools in my area are terrible (really very bad) and so my dad sends me to a private school so that I stay out of trouble and do well. Now we are not rich, my dad worked very hard and chose to spend his money on my school fees instead of a holiday. So we don't go on holiday (maybe once a year to the coast), I don't get really big birthday presents and I don't get much pocket money. But why should I be penalised because by Dad is doing this? It is his choice and he will have to work until he is a lot older because of his choice.
I personally think the government should try to improve the state school system because then less people would choose to go to private schools (like me). I don't think we should be penalised because we go to a private school. Should people who own businesses not be allowed to employ their sons? When people die should their daughters or sons be penalised because they might inherit a lot of money?
Also state schools usually have a catchment area (I know the ones near me do) and when a new state school is built and it is expect to be really good the house prices in the catchment area increase because there is more demand for those houses so that parents can get their kids into the good state school. But surely if the house prices increase then it will only be the rich who will be able to afford these house prices? So should they be penalised?
I personally think they should bring back grammar schools. But I don't think universities should penalise private school kids. The reason I go to a private school is because the state schools in my area are terrible (really very bad) and so my dad sends me to a private school so that I stay out of trouble and do well. Now we are not rich, my dad worked very hard and chose to spend his money on my school fees instead of a holiday. So we don't go on holiday (maybe once a year to the coast), I don't get really big birthday presents and I don't get much pocket money. But why should I be penalised because by Dad is doing this? It is his choice and he will have to work until he is a lot older because of his choice.
I personally think the government should try to improve the state school system because then less people would choose to go to private schools (like me). I don't think we should be penalised because we go to a private school. Should people who own businesses not be allowed to employ their sons? When people die should their daughters or sons be penalised because they might inherit a lot of money?
Also state schools usually have a catchment area (I know the ones near me do) and when a new state school is built and it is expect to be really good the house prices in the catchment area increase because there is more demand for those houses so that parents can get their kids into the good state school. But surely if the house prices increase then it will only be the rich who will be able to afford these house prices? So should they be penalised?
Original post by House MD
You're ignoring all decent reasons.
It's simply not viable.
It's simply not viable.
It's still unfair and it's still an inequality and it can't be left like this.
Original post by Miracle Day
It's still unfair and it's still an inequality and it can't be left like this.
But your solution is to abolish private schools?
It isn't particularly fair, but you can hardly blame the private schools for providing their students with a good education. What we should be looking at is public schools and trying to figure out how best to improve them. There may be things wrong with private schools, but ultimately I think people should be left with the choice.
Original post by Miracle Day
The title is more of a crowd drawer than my actual opinion, I'm still undecided on the 'private school issue' but I'm prepared to swing either way so convince me otherwise TSR.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinion here are some facts taken from the BBC.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
50% of Oxbridge undergrads are from private schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinion here are some facts taken from the BBC.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
50% of Oxbridge undergrads are from private schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
Although the standard of teaching obviously plays a major part in a student's education, but when it comes down to it the good grades only exist if the person works hards (revision) and further is capable of getting high grades in the first place. The girl you stated about probably had a natural ability towards getting high marks in her GCSE because she is naturally clever.
Also don't you think it's stange that a private school is also know as a Public school? Strange or what?!
Original post by House MD
But your solution is to abolish private schools?
I would rather they did it. Finland did it and that worked out well for them.
They seem to be ignoring it now though..
Hello OP - I completely see where you're coming from, however I have to disagree slightly in that quite often private schools do not always care about everyone getting A* grades. I went to a very competitive top grammar school and my A level grades - AAA - were actually deemed below average compared to the rest of the year. It was an extremely pressurising environment where grades were everything. However, at university some of my closest friends went to private schools, and said that my grades would have been almost top of the year in their schools, and that the attitude of their schools was 'work hard if you want to'. They said that the ethos of their schools was not grades, but a 'fuller' education, with more extra-curricular activities and more things such as more science experiments, of which I can hardly remember seeing any, as they are able to afford more materials etc. I find in my experience grammar schools are much more grade-oriented, and if I wanted my child to get A*s across the board I would send them to a grammar school instead. However, there are many more important things such as having an enriched education that I see as a plus point to private schools, which is why recently I have a more positive attitude towards them, even though in principle I believe everyone should receive an excellent free education.
Original post by Miracle Day
I would rather they did it. Finland did it and that worked out well for them.
They seem to be ignoring it now though..
They seem to be ignoring it now though..
Even though the costs of such a thing would be unfeasible. You can't argue with the facts
Original post by Miracle Day
I would rather they did it. Finland did it and that worked out well for them.
They seem to be ignoring it now though..
They seem to be ignoring it now though..
All that is going to do is put more pressure on state education. We should be increasing public spending on education to a level where state schools are as good as any public school.
Original post by zedbrar
The real question is, why is chance such a major determination of how well someone will achieve educationally?
I am not saying parents shouldn't do the best for their children. All parents wish to their best for their children. But it just so happens that some children have parents who can afford to pay £10,000 per year to get a superior education as compared to some like me whereby my parents couldn't afford to buy my school uniform. Thats not to say my parents wouldn't want for me the same that the rich kid gets. Likewise, the children in both scenarios have no control over such circumstances and it is all down to chance where they end up.
Most high level tutoring in this country is used to help kids pass countless examinations that our education system fetters them with. If we didn't have as many examinations, especially the SATs, we would see a decrease in demand for such tutoring.
I am not saying parents shouldn't do the best for their children. All parents wish to their best for their children. But it just so happens that some children have parents who can afford to pay £10,000 per year to get a superior education as compared to some like me whereby my parents couldn't afford to buy my school uniform. Thats not to say my parents wouldn't want for me the same that the rich kid gets. Likewise, the children in both scenarios have no control over such circumstances and it is all down to chance where they end up.
Most high level tutoring in this country is used to help kids pass countless examinations that our education system fetters them with. If we didn't have as many examinations, especially the SATs, we would see a decrease in demand for such tutoring.
So your argument is essentially, we shouldn't have so many exams and we should lower the level of education, so it's fair for everyone?
Life isn't fair. But everyone gets a good education in this country. If I could afford to give my kid the best education, I would. The fact that Barry down the road can't isn't a concern.
Just emphasising the inequality
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government."
But atleast Clegg acknowledges it
"He added: "We do need to ensure that our school system as a whole promotes fairness and mobility, that it heals the rift in opportunities. We are committed to narrowing the gap in our school system – state and private – and ensuring that all children are given the chance to rise. The way to do that is to make the state education system better – to level up – and ensure that anyone can get ahead."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/may/20/rift-private-state-school-grades
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government."
But atleast Clegg acknowledges it
"He added: "We do need to ensure that our school system as a whole promotes fairness and mobility, that it heals the rift in opportunities. We are committed to narrowing the gap in our school system – state and private – and ensuring that all children are given the chance to rise. The way to do that is to make the state education system better – to level up – and ensure that anyone can get ahead."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/may/20/rift-private-state-school-grades
The point is that - similarly to private healthcare - someone going to private school does not actually harm your education.
In fact, due to the fact the approximately 7% of UK children are privately schooled, it improves your education through lower staff
upil ratios in the state sector.
In fact, due to the fact the approximately 7% of UK children are privately schooled, it improves your education through lower staff
upil ratios in the state sector.Original post by tufc
The point is that - similarly to private healthcare - someone going to private school does not actually harm your education.
In fact, due to the fact the approximately 7% of UK children are privately schooled, it improves your education through lower staffupil ratios in the state sector.
In fact, due to the fact the approximately 7% of UK children are privately schooled, it improves your education through lower staff
upil ratios in the state sector.No one is saying it harms it, what people are complaining about is that money being able to buy you a better education makes society fundamentally flawed and fundamentally unfair.
Original post by tufc
The point is that - similarly to private healthcare - someone going to private school does not actually harm your education.
In fact, due to the fact the approximately 7% of UK children are privately schooled, it improves your education through lower staffupil ratios in the state sector.
In fact, due to the fact the approximately 7% of UK children are privately schooled, it improves your education through lower staff
upil ratios in the state sector.It also could harm it. For example perhaps I'll miss out on a place at Oxbridge because 50% go to 8% of the population.
Original post by OU Student
A private school isn't always better than a state school. They could just be more intelligent than you?
This.
To an extent, I am under the belief that people can do well wherever they are, just so long as they put the right amount of work in and have the work-ethic.
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