The Student Room Group
Uni students - Complete our survey >>
Uni students - Complete our survey >>
Uni students - Complete our survey >>

This discussion is now closed.

Check out other Related discussions

Should the NHS cover the costs of sex change?

Scroll to see replies

Reply 200
Avatar for lauren_a
lauren_a
I totally think it should be paid for. You may not consider it "life-saving" but many people with gender dysmorphia feel that their life is not truly worth living in the wrong body. Personally, I don't believe gender defines your life or personality and that you can be a masculine woman or feminine man just fine, but many of these people feel that changing their gender is the only way for them to be happy and truly live their lives.
It may not be "essential to their survival" but think about their mental state.

I am undecided on this issue though, particularly when you think about the fact that many cancer patients are refused treatment due to nhs cuts.
Original post by Beebumble
So you want to get rid of a few but not all. How would you decide this lottery?


Well, we already had a lottery to decide what qualified as significant before, why not again now, criteria I'm not sure, I'm sure a pencil pusher would be able to prioritise.
Original post by nicola93
If they commit suicide, they choose to take their own life. People like Mark Bannister, who have been denied certain cancer treatments which will prolong their life and give the more time with their children, have no choice over the fact that they die an untimely death. I think I know who I have sympathy with.


If someone commits suicide because the NHS wouldn't treat their condition despite them being entitled to NHS treatment, I don't think that's a choice tbh.
I don't know the ins and outs of Mark Bannister's case but I did give it a quick search and it appears to have been as a result of a postcode lottery. Why does his unfair treatment mean that we make it more unfair elsewhere in a way that probably won't make it fair in a future case of someone like Mark?

I also still have issue with you saying that it isn't an 'actual problem' in your first post. It is.
Reply 204
Avatar for nicola93
nicola93
6
Original post by minimarshmallow
If someone commits suicide because the NHS wouldn't treat their condition despite them being entitled to NHS treatment, I don't think that's a choice tbh.
I don't know the ins and outs of Mark Bannister's case but I did give it a quick search and it appears to have been as a result of a postcode lottery. Why does his unfair treatment mean that we make it more unfair elsewhere in a way that probably won't make it fair in a future case of someone like Mark?

I also still have issue with you saying that it isn't an 'actual problem' in your first post. It is.


My point is that this type of surgery should always become second to making funds available to treating people like Mark Bannister. People who will die through no fault of their own, not because they made the choice to kill themselves. Postcode lotteries only exist because the NHS has it's funding spread too thinly, so until we have an NHS where money is freely available to treat people with diseases like cancer, I think it's only right that we put gender changing on a back burner; as I've said already, I think that people should pay for this surgery themselves, because it's not essential. It's like a girl who has low self esteem because she thinks her boobs are small; why the hell should our taxes pay for her to have a boob job? People who think they're caught in the wrong body might be considered a medical condition, but on the list of problems that the NHS should be dealing with, it comes FAR below treating things like Cancer.
Reply 205
Avatar for khala
khala
8
Original post by Converse Rocker
I don't really get this. If someone feels trapped in the wrong body, I would have thought it could quite easily push them to depression. Also, without trying to sound insensitive, obesity is often caused by the person themselves, which feeling trapped in the wrong gender isn't, surely.

Prioritise treating terminal illness and the like though.


If thay feel depressed as a result they should be treated with help of a psychiatrist. The fact that they use a psychological problem to fund an operation as a way to solve it is wrong. For example i may feel insecurity and unconfident in myself the way to solve that isn't by getting multiple operations, plus like transgenders it isn't my fault i was born in this body which is ugly. See where im coming from surgery isnt the answer, but i would gladly agree for their funding of a psychiatrist.
Reply 206
Avatar for khala
khala
8
Original post by golden_lion
Should the NHS fund treatment (partially or fully) for diseases that are caused by lifestyle, though? I know not everyone who is obese is that weight because of lifestyle, but the vast majority are.


Its a hard que but full for seriously obese people only i guess as their at most risk of dying.
Original post by nicola93
My point is that this type of surgery should always become second to making funds available to treating people like Mark Bannister. People who will die through no fault of their own, not because they made the choice to kill themselves. Postcode lotteries only exist because the NHS has it's funding spread too thinly, so until we have an NHS where money is freely available to treat people with diseases like cancer, I think it's only right that we put gender changing on a back burner; as I've said already, I think that people should pay for this surgery themselves, because it's not essential. It's like a girl who has low self esteem because she thinks her boobs are small; why the hell should our taxes pay for her to have a boob job? People who think they're caught in the wrong body might be considered a medical condition, but on the list of problems that the NHS should be dealing with, it comes FAR below treating things like Cancer.


I'm still not seeing a reason why though? Without trying to sound insensitive, one of my best friends died just over a year ago from cancer, but Mark was dying anyway. If the same amount of money can be spent on a sex change that will give someone another 50 years of life before they die naturally as could be spent on a drug that would give someone maybe another 2 years, doesn't the 50 year one make more sense from a utilitarian perspective? Not saying it's my point of view, it's just one to think about.
Also, it still isn't a choice to kill yourself if you're being denied the one thing that will cure your problem. It isn't their fault they have GID (although equally it's probably not Mark's fault he had cancer), and they're being denied the one treatment that will make them 100% better. They already receive counselling etc. but it doesn't work in a majority of cases.
And if a girl has low self-esteem because she has small boobs this will be treated with counselling and possibly anti-depressants etc. If they've all been exhausted and ineffective then yes, she should get a boob job.
My point was that the money saved by not performing the sex change operation probably wouldn't have gone to giving Mark this drug. If we cut certain things from the NHS the money would probably go where it's most needed - keeping nurses etc. - rather than giving someone a drug to prolong their life. So cutting sex change operations would not have saved Mark. So why do we make it unfair on one group of people in regards to the NHS, when it won't make it any fairer on another group of people.
We should put treating cancer above certain other treatments, yes. That's why my friend got bumped down the surgery list by an extra 8 hours while someone had their tumours removed. But all of these things have their own budget and their own waiting lists and cutting one doesn't mean that another will suddenly become better.
Original post by khala
If thay feel depressed as a result they should be treated with help of a psychiatrist. The fact that they use a psychological problem to fund an operation as a way to solve it is wrong. For example i may feel insecurity and unconfident in myself the way to solve that isn't by getting multiple operations, plus like transgenders it isn't my fault i was born in this body which is ugly. See where im coming from surgery isnt the answer, but i would gladly agree for their funding of a psychiatrist.


The problem here being that if you're depressed about purely cosmetic reasons, this can usually be treated extremely effectively by psychiatry, whereas GID might be a little bit reduced, but the only way to treat it in any way as effectively is with the surgery.
Reply 209
Avatar for khala
khala
8
Original post by minimarshmallow
The problem here being that if you're depressed about purely cosmetic reasons, this can usually be treated extremely effectively by psychiatry, whereas GID might be a little bit reduced, but the only way to treat it in any way as effectively is with the surgery.


Do you have proof that it can only be cured by surgery and that psychiatric help isn't effective enough?
Original post by khala
Do you have proof that it can only be cured by surgery and that psychiatric help isn't effective enough?


Not to hand, but I definitely remember it coming up in a seminar with a guest speaker...
Original post by khala
Do you have proof that it can only be cured by surgery and that psychiatric help isn't effective enough?


I think the fact that, in countries where one has to pay, people still opt for transition to another gender rather than cheaper therapy is proof enough that therapy wouldn't work.
I'm sure a lot of people would rather just be cured of their desire to have a sex change, but apparantly this isn't possible.
Original post by khala
If thay feel depressed as a result they should be treated with help of a psychiatrist. The fact that they use a psychological problem to fund an operation as a way to solve it is wrong. For example i may feel insecurity and unconfident in myself the way to solve that isn't by getting multiple operations, plus like transgenders it isn't my fault i was born in this body which is ugly. See where im coming from surgery isnt the answer, but i would gladly agree for their funding of a psychiatrist.


Can a psychologist really make someone feel they're not trapped in the wrong gender anymore? That's a pretty hard task. I guess your point about feeling ugly is a good one, but I don't think being insecure about appearance is really the same as being trapped in entirely the wrong body/gender.

I'm no expert though.
Reply 213
Avatar for tinman1
tinman1
4
Original post by Beebumble
Why are you talking on behalf of others? I know trans people who live perfectly normal lives post-treatment.


Doubt it. They'd never be really accepted as that gender unless they kept it a secret forever and moved away from their home/friends and even then they'll have all the scars etc, struggle to find partners accepting of it etcetcetc

Just accept what you are and stop expecting the tax payer to pay for what is a LIFE CHOICE.
Original post by tinman1
Doubt it. They'd never be really accepted as that gender unless they kept it a secret forever and moved away from their home/friends and even then they'll have all the scars etc, struggle to find partners accepting of it etcetcetc

Just accept what you are and stop expecting the tax payer to pay for what is a LIFE CHOICE.


You are being completely ignorant. You would only have to look back a few pages to see that it is not a life choice, this is a real condition with a true basis.
Go to page 7 and read my posts and sources if you wish.
Reply 215
Avatar for swylde
swylde
No way should it be paid for. It's a want and therefore not a necessity meaning it shouldn't be funded.
Original post by tinman1
Doubt it. They'd never be really accepted as that gender unless they kept it a secret forever and moved away from their home/friends and even then they'll have all the scars etc, struggle to find partners accepting of it etcetcetc

Just accept what you are and stop expecting the tax payer to pay for what is a LIFE CHOICE.


Maybe if everyone thought like you that would be the case but fortunately not everyone does.

As for life choice. Those with real medical knowledge will disagree.
Original post by swylde
No way should it be paid for. It's a want and therefore not a necessity meaning it shouldn't be funded.


Oh I'm fed up of saying it just go back read my posts, educate yourself and realise that many many treatments on the NHS are not a 'necessity' treatments you may have used yourself.
(edited 11 years ago)
Yes, because they don't just hand out sex change operations to anyone. You have to see psychiatrists and all sorts, and live as the opposite sex for 2 years. Gender identity disorder is a genuine condition, and to feel that are trapped in the wrong body must be absolute hell. I'm not saying that gender identity disorder is a mental illness, but untreated it has very high suicide rates, and other things such as depression where there is a risk of suicide are treated by the NHS, so why on earth wouldn't you treat genuine cases of gender identity disorder with sex change operations?
Can you imagine being stuck in the body of someone of the opposite gender? It must be horrible, I think these operations should be covered by the NHS because it isn't the person's fault that they are born with this condition and it isn't like it's something with a cheap alternative like weight loss and a gastric band.

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you