Criminal law at the bar?
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Criminal law at the bar?Five years after last posting on the student room while at university, I find myself looking through these threads, remembering the times when I would always post on here, checking how everyone was getting on with pupillage/training contract applications.
I thought I would rejoin and share my experiences of practising criminal law. Having graduated from university and completing the BVC, I was offered a pupillage at local chambers in Kent. I was also offered the opportunity to cross qualify as a Solicitor for a firm criminal firm in London. After much soul searching, I decided to take up the job in the firm of Solicitors and cross qualify, which I did two years ago.
My advice to anyone on here would be to seriously think carefully if they wish to go to the bar to work as a criminal barrister. It is common knowledge that the junior end of the bar are struggling for work, but in the past 12 months I have seen just how desperate times are getting! Firms are keeping as much work in house as possible! I work for a large regional firm in Kent and the only time we ever brief out work is if no one else in the office can cover a case! Trials have to be covered in house, and all Pcmh, preliminary hearings, committals for sentences are covered In house.
The situation is so bad, that we have a list of barristers who are now training for the police station qualification to enable them to sit as duty solicitors on the rota, to help supplement income. I attended the police station last week with a senior barrister, 15 years call from a set in London who spent the day observing me at the police station.
Times are only going to get harder, many barristers are seeing a 75% reduction in income due to fee changes! This is not trying to put people off, but feel it is only right to try and inform the next generation of lawyers to think really carefully where they want to go! It's tough enough being a criminal solicitor! -
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Re: Criminal law at the bar?Surely it isnt profitable to keep a 3 day trial in-house, when that solicitor needs to be in the office dealing with other cases? I can accept that it makes sense to do commitals and pcmhs in house because they tend to be short. But surely not substantial trials?(Original post by Criminal lawyer)
Five years after last posting on the student room while at university, I find myself looking through these threads, remembering the times when I would always post on here, checking how everyone was getting on with pupillage/training contract applications.
I thought I would rejoin and share my experiences of practising criminal law. Having graduated from university and completing the BVC, I was offered a pupillage at local chambers in Kent. I was also offered the opportunity to cross qualify as a Solicitor for a firm criminal firm in London. After much soul searching, I decided to take up the job in the firm of Solicitors and cross qualify, which I did two years ago.
My advice to anyone on here would be to seriously think carefully if they wish to go to the bar to work as a criminal barrister. It is common knowledge that the junior end of the bar are struggling for work, but in the past 12 months I have seen just how desperate times are getting! Firms are keeping as much work in house as possible! I work for a large regional firm in Kent and the only time we ever brief out work is if no one else in the office can cover a case! Trials have to be covered in house, and all Pcmh, preliminary hearings, committals for sentences are covered In house.
The situation is so bad, that we have a list of barristers who are now training for the police station qualification to enable them to sit as duty solicitors on the rota, to help supplement income. I attended the police station last week with a senior barrister, 15 years call from a set in London who spent the day observing me at the police station.
Times are only going to get harder, many barristers are seeing a 75% reduction in income due to fee changes! This is not trying to put people off, but feel it is only right to try and inform the next generation of lawyers to think really carefully where they want to go! It's tough enough being a criminal solicitor! -
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Re: Criminal law at the bar?That used to be the case but firms are moving towards models by which they have in-house advocates with minimal support ie desks, typists.(Original post by andymt)
Surely it isnt profitable to keep a 3 day trial in-house, when that solicitor needs to be in the office dealing with other cases? I can accept that it makes sense to do commitals and pcmhs in house because they tend to be short. But surely not substantial trials?
The driver is the LSC which is no longer neutral in paying for different types of work in a case. To make money, firms have to keep in house the work for which the LSC will pay most. -
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Re: Criminal law at the bar?Yes it is more profitable, as the firm will not only earn the fees for the magistrates court file, but also the litigator fee from the solicitor advocate who will bill far more on the trial than the firm will have to pay him in his salary!
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Re: Criminal law at the bar?Alternatively, practising criminal law as a barrister would still be viable if you have a mixed practice, and therefore supplement your income with higher paying work in other areas.(Original post by Space Jockey)
So what people are saying is that if you want to do crime: avoid the bar unless you have a secondary income and go for being a solicitor-advocate instead? -
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Re: Criminal law at the bar?Agreed, however I would be interested in talking to barristers who do this and finding out how well this 'mix' works in practice. Do they find one area of work taking more of their time etc..(Original post by Crazy Jamie)
Alternatively, practising criminal law as a barrister would still be viable if you have a mixed practice, and therefore supplement your income with higher paying work in other areas.
It is a shame to see this happening to the criminal bar. The general consensus is that things are bad, however depending upon who you speak to, you get different stories. I have spoken to Max Hill QC who painted a very bleak picture and, as some here may have read, called for action to be taken (something which received support from many members of the CBA). However I have also spoken to friends who have completed criminal pupillages this year. While they admit times are tough, they say that they can live on what they earn and most importantly they are doing something they love.
I do hope that the criminal bar does not become the hobby horse of the wealthy, or something those passionate about are only able to dip into when their diary of more profitable work allows. -
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Re: Criminal law at the bar?Just seen this: “It’s make or break for the criminal bar”: interview with John Cooper QC
Good old Cooper.Last edited by InnerTemple; 12-07-2012 at 15:43. -
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Re: Criminal law at the bar?Well, they are looking for a new chairman at the moment, though you may have missed the boat on that one since the candidates have already been named. Maybe next year?(Original post by Wildman)
The thing about the Criminal Bar is they are good at complaining but it's always just hot air. Will they go on strike? I doubt it.
Added to that is they don't know how to campaign. Whenever this issue comes up they speak in legal jargon and talk about things that the layperson doesn't know or understand. For a profession which is focused on advocacy their presentation skills are on the whole lamentable.
Also, this hardly ever hits the mainstream press. They do a piss poor job of publicising it, generating interest, and communicating effectively. Perhaps that is why they are barristers and not politicians.
Basically CBA, if you want it done properly feel free to send me a message.
From what I was told, the idea was to try and gain some publicity and highlight the fact that criminal barristers are not the fat cat lawyers that the Daily Mail seems to think they are. I think this was reasonably successful - the story hit the Guardian, the Telegraph, FT, Express and made an appearance on the BBC.
I wouldn't be so sure about them not striking. A strike may not happen immediately, but it is something the current chair of the CBA was very keen on making happen - and one of the current candidates for chair is also of a similar view, perhaps even more hawkish. -
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Re: Criminal law at the bar?Well, I'm happy to oblige with speaking from experience. I am predominantly a civil practitioner, but in second six I had a mixed practice. The reality is that the mix works fine, because basic level cases and hearings in every area are accessible to everyone. By which I mean that any second six pupil should be capable of running a magistrates court trial, handling breaches or appeal convictions/sentences in the crown court as well as they could do small claims trials and the like. Now as you get more senior you will naturally begin to specialise in one way or the other, and it is unusual to find very senior barristers with a fully mixed practice (though certainly they do exist; there are a couple in my Chambers of 20 years and more call with a mixed practice, including a QC). But when you're just starting out most work you will receive it as a fairly basic level, and as such it really isn't a problem handling a mixed practice. In fact, the most junior criminal practitioner in my Chambers now regularly does the odd civil or family hearing. There is no doubt that their goal is to have a wholly criminal practice in future, but for now doing lower level civil and family hearings works fine as a way of boosting income.(Original post by InnerTemple)
Agreed, however I would be interested in talking to barristers who do this and finding out how well this 'mix' works in practice. Do they find one area of work taking more of their time etc..
