[oreostastenice]

In preparation for my general studies exam, I got into the news and I found it really interesting! Then the stress hit me and I just lost track -_-

It was during the Eurozone crisis when I stopped, so I don’t understand whether the problem has improved or not. Can someone explain what’s happened? I understand that if the Euro loses its value, Ireland will suffer badly, and then we'll suffer because our banks are so interlinked with theirs. Am I right?

[jumpingjesusholycow]

A brief rudimentary explanation of the Eurozone crisis.

[Tom_Hagen]

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
A brief rudimentary explanation of the Eurozone crisis.

Pretty much covers the basics but...

He misses out Greece cooking their books, Germany enjoying the weak euro and the Euro being a stupid project in the first place at the very least.

He's wrong about the 'different political ideologies' making no difference. What he means is, over the last 50 or so years, maybe more, 'political ideologies' emanating from both the traditional left and traditional right have been watered down beyond recognition and have effectively become the same thing i.e. slightly left of centre, egotistical, big nanny state, meddling do gooders.

Look at Switzerland.

[jumpingjesusholycow]

(Original post by Tom_Hagen)
Pretty much covers the basics but...

He misses out Greece cooking their books, Germany enjoying the weak euro and the Euro being a stupid project in the first place at the very least.

He's wrong about the 'different political ideologies' making no difference. What he means is, over the last 50 or so years, maybe more, 'political ideologies' emanating from both the traditional left and traditional right have been watered down beyond recognition and have effectively become the same thing i.e. slightly left of centre, egotistical, big nanny state, meddling do gooders.

Look at Switzerland.

He has an onus to keep his videos precise and specific so as to keep them within 3 minutes, and he refers to the 'different political ideologies' of the United States, not the European Union.

That said, I disagree with your rather narrow minded assertions.

[Tom_Hagen]

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
He has an onus to keep his videos precise and specific so as to keep them within 3 minutes, and he refers to the 'different political ideologies' of the United States, not the European Union.

That said, I disagree with your rather narrow minded assertions.

Exactly which part is narrow minded? Everything I stated in that post is actually a fact, it may come off as opinion, but it isn't.

[King Kebab]

It has not improved. The project will fail unless there is fiscal union. It is inevitable Greece will default on it's payments. We are spunking good money away just to keep the project go on a bit longer because of politicians and their utter vanity.

[Tom_Hagen]

(Original post by King Kebab)
It has not improved. The project will fail unless there is fiscal union. It is inevitable Greece will default on it's payments. We are spunking good money away just to keep the project go on a bit longer because of politicians and their utter vanity.

I agree. However, I am of the opinion that the the project is doomed to fail even if there is fiscal unity.

Fiscal unity is easily said, but very difficult to achieve. It makes sense on paper, 'we'll adopt the same economic policy, we have the same currency already, everything will be grand after this'. It's not that simple. In fact, I would argue fiscal unity could possibly be the last straw on the camel's back. It could cause a collapse in not only the Eurozone but the whole European Union. The EU and various continental countries have Commies and Socialists at the helm of their establishments. They see themselves as more enlightened than the rest of us. They believe in central planning, which is bad enough on a national scale, as proven by many historical examples - but if it was to be implemented on a multi-national scale, through the mechanisms of a very distant decision maker, the results could be catastrophic.

It also means handing over more power to the European Union from sovereign countries. Something people will not be happy about. The current crisis has already seen Greeks shift their support to extreme ideas such as fascism and communism. It will involve debt mutualisation, something Germans will not allow at any cost. The Finns are not happy about that aspect either and various ministers have threatened to leave the Euro on 2 or 3 occasions just in the last couple of weeks.

The quicker they get round to dissolving the whole thing and putting the European Union through an insolvency process, the better.

[oreostastenice]

(Original post by Tom_Hagen)
I agree. However, I am of the opinion that the the project is doomed to fail even if there is fiscal unity.

Fiscal unity is easily said, but very difficult to achieve. It makes sense on paper, 'we'll adopt the same economic policy, we have the same currency already, everything will be grand after this'. It's not that simple. In fact, I would argue fiscal unity could possibly be the last straw on the camel's back. It could cause a collapse in not only the Eurozone but the whole European Union. The EU and various continental countries have Commies and Socialists at the helm of their establishments. They see themselves as more enlightened than the rest of us. They believe in central planning, which is bad enough on a national scale, as proven by many historical examples - but if it was to be implemented on a multi-national scale, through the mechanisms of a very distant decision maker, the results could be catastrophic.

It also means handing over more power to the European Union from sovereign countries. Something people will not be happy about. The current crisis has already seen Greeks shift their support to extreme ideas such as fascism and communism. It will involve debt mutualisation, something Germans will not allow at any cost. The Finns are not happy about that aspect either and various ministers have threatened to leave the Euro on 2 or 3 occasions just in the last couple of weeks.

The quicker they get round to dissolving the whole thing and putting the European Union through an insolvency process, the better.

.......... I still dont understand

[KasanDude]

EU politics wouldn't have made one lick of difference with Greece. The whole system of borrowing works if you borrow within reason and everyone knows how much you borrowed so they can see what the probability of you paying them back is.

Now a fact. Greece misreported its financial situation since about 2002, which means that no one could have known how in debt they were and everyone kept giving them money, business as usual. Then everyone figured out that Greece wasn't really doing so hot as they said they were and the EU realized that there was very little chance of all the debts being paid back. This is because Greece actually has almost no profit from its government-run thingies like public transportation and what not, so it would take massive cutbacks and many decades for them to repay it.

The bailout would keep Greece going so that it could work to repay at least some of its debt. However, the conditions for the bailout are seen as horrible by the Greeks, which is where politics come in. Greece has been largely left-wing, in that the government maximized government spending to provide a bunch of government jobs and the greek people rarely paid for public services. Now, Greece would have to make its people pay for things, and of course they don't want to do that (quality of life is always relative) so they protest, and no one wants to go ahead and sign the terms and conditions of the bailout which would make the whole country hate them.

I read somewhere that booting Greece from the EU would have little if any repurcussion on the actual EU economy. What it would do is hurt investor confidence in other european countries and the Euro, which is something that the EU thinks makes the bailout worth their time.

Personally, I'd take most of Greece's nationalized institutions in lieu of payment of debt and move on. The Greek government lied their a$$es of for years, why should we have to pay for that?

[oreostastenice]

(Original post by KasanDude)
EU politics wouldn't have made one lick of difference with Greece. The whole system of borrowing works if you borrow within reason and everyone knows how much you borrowed so they can see what the probability of you paying them back is.

Now a fact. Greece misreported its financial situation since about 2002, which means that no one could have known how in debt they were and everyone kept giving them money, business as usual. Then everyone figured out that Greece wasn't really doing so hot as they said they were and the EU realized that there was very little chance of all the debts being paid back. This is because Greece actually has almost no profit from its government-run thingies like public transportation and what not, so it would take massive cutbacks and many decades for them to repay it.

The bailout would keep Greece going so that it could work to repay at least some of its debt. However, the conditions for the bailout are seen as horrible by the Greeks, which is where politics come in. Greece has been largely left-wing, in that the government maximized government spending to provide a bunch of government jobs and the greek people rarely paid for public services. Now, Greece would have to make its people pay for things, and of course they don't want to do that (quality of life is always relative) so they protest, and no one wants to go ahead and sign the terms and conditions of the bailout which would make the whole country hate them.

I read somewhere that booting Greece from the EU would have little if any repurcussion on the actual EU economy. What it would do is hurt investor confidence in other european countries and the Euro, which is something that the EU thinks makes the bailout worth their time.

Personally, I'd take most of Greece's nationalized institutions in lieu of payment of debt and move on. The Greek government lied their a$$es of for years, why should we have to pay for that?

THANK. YOU.
May I ask, how does all this affect the UK?

[KasanDude]

(Original post by oreostastenice)
THANK. YOU.
May I ask, how does all this affect the UK?

I'm sure most UK financial institutions had some money tied up in Greece, or at the very least the Eurozone. Any lapse in confidence in the Euro from the outside (U.S., China, etc.) would have a negative affect on the UK economy . Whether they like it or not, the UK does a lot of business with the Eurozone countries, so if anything bad happens in Europe, they'll feel some repurcussions in the UK.

[oreostastenice]

(Original post by KasanDude)
I'm sure most UK financial institutions had some money tied up in Greece, or at the very least the Eurozone. Any lapse in confidence in the Euro from the outside (U.S., China, etc.) would have a negative affect on the UK economy . Whether they like it or not, the UK does a lot of business with the Eurozone countries, so if anything bad happens in Europe, they'll feel some repurcussions in the UK.

Oh, okay.. That makes sense :L

[Christianlady]

(Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
A brief rudimentary explanation of the Eurozone crisis.

He is adorable!!! Lol... I love his lingo... "hug bucket"..."fancypants countries" lol

I disagree with him in that I don't think debt is good and personally I don't think it's fair for "fancypant countries" to borrow more cheaply than developing countries. Not fair at all. But then, nobody ever said economy was fair... though some want to make it more fair, but that's really hard to do.

Anyways, I do get that it's important for "fancypant countries" to be able to pay off debt...

I hope Greece and the nations in Europe get out of their mess, same as I hope the USA gets out of its millions of messes in different issues. Easier said than done...