[CP1705]

Hi,

I'm thinking of applying to the Civil Service Fast Stream (i've just graduated and my degree was in Politics, Philosophy and Economics). Does anyone have any advice on types of work experience or anything that would benefit my application because i know it's really competitive? Also, are there any other types of jobs/graduate schemes in this sort of work that are less competitive? Thanks!!!

[Magnum Opus]

It's not really the types of experience they'll be looking at per say, but the way you present that experience and the evidence which shows self-development in the past and future.

[LW91]

I will be also applying for the FS, I will be graduating in 2013.
I have found that there is a lot of information in the 2012 thread to help with my queries.

[oasisstar786]

Hi I'm planning to apply too, so just keeping an eye out for what any advice and tips!
Good luck!

[Don John]

The best common sense advice that I can think of is:

- Make sure you have at least 4 weeks of work experience to do with anything
- Make sure your grades are up to scratch. They usually don't hire 2:2s, but if you have lots of really good work experience (say, you founded your own company/website, did an amazing job at an internship at a big company) they'll overlook this
- Be honest in your interview. If you don't know something, just say so

[lovers in japan]

(Original post by Don John)
The best common sense advice that I can think of is:

- Make sure you have at least 4 weeks of work experience to do with anything
- Make sure your grades are up to scratch. They usually don't hire 2:2s, but if you have lots of really good work experience (say, you founded your own company/website, did an amazing job at an internship at a big company) they'll overlook this
- Be honest in your interview. If you don't know something, just say so

Ignore this:

1) Work experience means nothing in this process. It's very meritocratic; as long as you pass the initial tests, and e-tray, then it's down to you in the assessment centre. Work experience will help you have things to talk about in your interview, but it's not necessary.
2) 2:2s are FINE. They actually state that for generalists, 2:2s are fine. They also plan on bringing the other schemes (TiB for one) into sync with this by them all having a 2:2 requirement; as long as you do well in your FSAC, then the degree certification is more of a formality.

Although yes, the interview requires you to be honest, although it isn't so much about what you've done, but how you've displayed your fulfilment of the necessary competencies in varied situations.

[Don John]

(Original post by lovers in japan)
Ignore this:

1) Work experience means nothing in this process. It's very meritocratic; as long as you pass the initial tests, and e-tray, then it's down to you in the assessment centre. Work experience will help you have things to talk about in your interview, but it's not necessary.
2) 2:2s are FINE. They actually state that for generalists, 2:2s are fine. They also plan on bringing the other schemes (TiB for one) into sync with this by them all having a 2:2 requirement; as long as you do well in your FSAC, then the degree certification is more of a formality.

Although yes, the interview requires you to be honest, although it isn't so much about what you've done, but how you've displayed your fulfilment of the necessary competencies in varied situations.

I stand corrected. Are you in the scheme?

[lovers in japan]

(Original post by Don John)
I stand corrected. Are you in the scheme?

I am, I will be starting next month as a generalist (with a 2:2). Are you applying/have you applied?

I had some experience, but the only use was in the face to face interview to provide examples for competencies.

[Don John]

(Original post by lovers in japan)
I am, I will be starting next month as a generalist (with a 2:2). Are you applying/have you applied?

I had some experience, but the only use was in the face to face interview to provide examples for competencies.

Congratulations, which department?

Probably applying to the FCO, I have a few contacts there. Going into fourth year, I'll be glad to have just a whiff of a proper job in sight.

[rockrunride]

Contacts are about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the FS. They assess you with what they put before you and pretty much nothing else.

[Don John]

(Original post by rockrunride)
Contacts are about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the FS. They assess you with what they put before you and pretty much nothing else.

Helps in the FCO moreso than the central departments, so they've told me.

[lovers in japan]

(Original post by Don John)
Congratulations, which department?

Probably applying to the FCO, I have a few contacts there. Going into fourth year, I'll be glad to have just a whiff of a proper job in sight.

Will be in Health.

Yeah that won't really help... FCO, if you apply directly to an embassy etc then yes contacts can help if you're already in that country, however for Fast Stream, they won't even know or care, and if you bring it up then you'll sound a bit pretentious. In your FSB I suppose if your contact interviews you... however I can only think of it being helpful if you pass the FSB and then want to work in a specific area where you have contacts. It's far too meritocratic for contacts to help.

Also, the numbers are against you. Stellar marks at uni and contacts won't help you with FSAC, and only people with top marks there (again, not academic but skills-based) will have a chance at FSB.

(Original post by rockrunride)
Contacts are about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the FS. They assess you with what they put before you and pretty much nothing else.

Was literally about to say the same thing... actually, I have said the same thing and elaborated/rambled more.

[Don John]

(Original post by lovers in japan)
Will be in Health.

Yeah that won't really help... FCO, if you apply directly to an embassy etc then yes contacts can help if you're already in that country, however for Fast Stream, they won't even know or care, and if you bring it up then you'll sound a bit pretentious. In your FSB I suppose if your contact interviews you... however I can only think of it being helpful if you pass the FSB and then want to work in a specific area where you have contacts. It's far too meritocratic for contacts to help.

Also, the numbers are against you. Stellar marks at uni and contacts won't help you with FSAC, and only people with top marks there (again, not academic but skills-based) will have a chance at FSB.



Was literally about to say the same thing... actually, I have said the same thing and elaborated/rambled more.

Whichever is right, I'm excited to apply already.

[Little Jules]

(Original post by Don John)
Helps in the FCO moreso than the central departments, so they've told me.

(Original post by lovers in japan)
Will be in Health.

Yeah that won't really help... FCO, if you apply directly to an embassy etc then yes contacts can help if you're already in that country, however for Fast Stream, they won't even know or care, and if you bring it up then you'll sound a bit pretentious. In your FSB I suppose if your contact interviews you... however I can only think of it being helpful if you pass the FSB and then want to work in a specific area where you have contacts. It's far too meritocratic for contacts to help.

Also, the numbers are against you. Stellar marks at uni and contacts won't help you with FSAC, and only people with top marks there (again, not academic but skills-based) will have a chance at FSB.



Was literally about to say the same thing... actually, I have said the same thing and elaborated/rambled more.

LoJ is right, contacts won't mean a thing. To get into the FCO you need to first pass the normal Fast Stream process, where you are effectively anonymous. I can't see it helping much at FSB level either unless you know someone who is conducting the process. Or possibly William Hague.

[lovers in japan]

(Original post by Little Jules)
LoJ is right, contacts won't mean a thing. To get into the FCO you need to first pass the normal Fast Stream process, where you are effectively anonymous. I can't see it helping much at FSB level either unless you know someone who is conducting the process. Or possibly William Hague.

Exactly my point, if you know your interviewer then perhaps that would help, except I think you have three people at once, and they probably have to disclose any relationship with the applicant...

FCO is so hard to get into it's virtually unattainable, but that's mostly due to it being over-subscribed.

[rockrunride]

It's so hard one wonders where the actual meritocratic stops and the arbitrary begins.

[Don John]

(Original post by lovers in japan)
Exactly my point, if you know your interviewer then perhaps that would help, except I think you have three people at once, and they probably have to disclose any relationship with the applicant...

FCO is so hard to get into it's virtually unattainable, but that's mostly due to it being over-subscribed.

I've heard that it's pretty hard, my buddies from school who went to English unis who were applying last September said that the numerical test was devilish.

Frantically trying to improve my Mandarin, hopefully my maths degree will count for something too. Although we haven't done any arithmetic since first year. I heard that mathematics degrees have one of the worst records in the FS, haha.

[MagicNMedicine]

Contacts can help when you're applying to the fast stream, but not in the way most people think contacts operate. You can't leverage a contact (eg a relative) on the inside to get extended periods of work experience or a more favourable outlook from the assessors due to them being aware of implied pressure not to reject the nephew of a big cheese etc. That kind of thing can happen in private firms but in government it would be frowned on and it wouldn't reflect well on a manager in the civil service if they were seen to be trying to give advantages to a relative.

Sometimes it is possible to organise brief periods of unpaid work shadowing etc but it's not really peoples relatives etc, I would recommend being pro-active, if you do some research on the fast stream recruitment site and look at the different departments etc sometimes there will be a contact "for further information on working in department X contact so and so". Maybe you could contact them and say you'd be really interested in finding out more, ask if it would be possible to come up to meet them at the department and talk to them in person. Then if you have a bit of contact like that ask if you could come and shadow an existing fast streamer on that scheme for a few days. In some departments this will be impractical because of security, but in others it might be feasible. They will respond more positively to a bit of pro-active contact like that rather than trying to go in through a family member.

In terms of getting on to the fast stream the most useful type of contacts really are existing fast streamers because they have recently been through the assessment centre process and also they are doing the fast stream roles, which the assessment centre is designed to replicate. Fast streamers know how to do oral briefings, how to make policy recommendations and condense lots of information into a 2 side summary of key points (eg for a ministerial submission), how to communicate in a meeting situation, build alliances, ensure a meeting operates properly. As well as having been naturally good enough at those things to get through the FSAC their compulsory fast stream training courses basically drill them through those things and they do it in their jobs anyway. So whilst you can't "prepare" for FSAC in terms of you don't know what the specifics of the exercise will be, existing fast streamers can give you pointers as to how to do those type of things.

Maybe ask your university careers service if they have contacts with any alumni that are on the fast stream and see if you could meet with them. I do think there is benefit in trying to find a 'contact' on the inside but you have to think of it more as aiding your preparation rather than being able to leverage an advantage in the recruitment process. And also try and steer away from family members, try and be more pro-active in hunting down a contact yourself.

[lovers in japan]

(Original post by Don John)
I've heard that it's pretty hard, my buddies from school who went to English unis who were applying last September said that the numerical test was devilish.

Frantically trying to improve my Mandarin, hopefully my maths degree will count for something too. Although we haven't done any arithmetic since first year. I heard that mathematics degrees have one of the worst records in the FS, haha.

Eh, I only did GCSE Maths and got an A but that was in 2006, and ok the time allocated seemed too little but the actual questions weren't particularly difficult, just unusual.

I did a degree in Chinese, and trust me that linguistic abilities count for nothing until/if you pass the FSB, then for your first placement they may send you to China (and then you won't get to work there again). Also, don't set your heart on it, look into Central Departments as well. In 2010, 2000 people applied for FCO as their first choice, and only 12 got a placement - 1 in 158 get it.

[Don John]

(Original post by lovers in japan)
Eh, I only did GCSE Maths and got an A but that was in 2006, and ok the time allocated seemed too little but the actual questions weren't particularly difficult, just unusual.

I did a degree in Chinese, and trust me that linguistic abilities count for nothing until/if you pass the FSB, then for your first placement they may send you to China (and then you won't get to work there again). Also, don't set your heart on it, look into Central Departments as well. In 2010, 2000 people applied for FCO as their first choice, and only 12 got a placement - 1 in 158 get it.

Hmm, this makes me wonder what specific abilities they look for. I'll have to ask the guys I know there. Although I suppose that the slightest blemish on one's record won't be forgiven. I'll just try to be ultra-cordial and ultra-sensitive in what I say, should I get that far.