Loss of Human rights.
Discuss the merits and deficiencies of political theories and philosophical questions.
| Announcements | Posted on | |
|---|---|---|
| Please change your TSR password | 23-05-2013 | |
-
- Reputation:
- Thread Starter
- New Member
- Posts: 24
Loss of Human rights.Does anyone here have any arguments that people should lose their human rights, and right to be represented at a trial.
Yes, I know many people think you should have human rights no matter what, but I was just wondering if anyone has any arguments for PRO-loss of human rights and for what reasons i.e Rape, mass genocide etc..?
Furthermore, are there any philosophers who have arguments for loss of human rights?Last edited by Kigreg; 18-07-2012 at 16:56. -
- Reputation:
- Respected Member
- Posts: 224
Re: Loss of Human rights.I've always had strong views on this, but many seem to be disgusted by them.
In short, the developed world has gone human rights mad. Unconditional human rights that is, rights we have merely because we are human, due to the likes of religion and our own sense of self-importance. As a species, we tend to consider all human life as somewhat sacred.
My feelings on this matter are quite simple; namely, any individual who infringes on the rights of another should lose his/her own rights to the appropriate extent. Capitol punishment is a big yes, in my opinion. Have you ever been in a prison? Unfortunately I've been acquainted with UK prisons for much of my life (family crap) and they're a joke. TVs, Gyms, Internet access, shops, decent food. I realise that not all prisoners get these facilities, but I don't feel that many (if any) should have such access. Prison is too often used as a free hotel, due to our compulsion to treat inmates with the decency that they do not deserve.
Rapists? Starve the ****ers, let them soil themselves for months, concrete floor for a bed, whatever. Murderers should be killed after years of harsh treatment. The list goes on. If we treat these people the way they deserve, then perhaps there would be less of them to begin with.
I realise that morality comes into play here - but I see it in terms of simple utilitarianism. No conditions, no special statuses for human beings, just the pain caused to victims of these people and the punishment that they really deserve. -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Location: Leeds
- Posts: 2,553
Re: Loss of Human rights.Poster number 2 doesn't understand the concept of human rights.
Human rights apply to every human being, regardless of a whole list of things, i.e. what they have done, their skin colour etc.
Civil rights apply to every human being, but at least some are lost as a result of an infringement in another person's civil, or even human rights. -
- Reputation:
- Respected Member
- Posts: 224
Re: Loss of Human rights.Right yeah, perhaps there's a distinction to be made.
Mostly I'm referring to human rights or natural rights - rights that we have to particular states of being just because we are human - and how they're unfounded. We do not deserve or have a right to anything simply because we are human, which seems to be the way many see it nowadays. What we deserve and how we are treat within society then should be dependent on things - how far we treat others appropriately, for example.Last edited by sjcxxx; 20-07-2012 at 01:03. -
- Reputation:
- Peer Of The TSR Realm
- Location: Berks, England
- Posts: 1,646
Re: Loss of Human rights.Then they cease to become rights then, don't they?(Original post by sjcxxx)
I've always had strong views on this, but many seem to be disgusted by them.
In short, the developed world has gone human rights mad. Unconditional human rights that is, rights we have merely because we are human, due to the likes of religion and our own sense of self-importance. As a species, we tend to consider all human life as somewhat sacred.
My feelings on this matter are quite simple; namely, any individual who infringes on the rights of another should lose his/her own rights to the appropriate extent. Capitol punishment is a big yes, in my opinion. Have you ever been in a prison? Unfortunately I've been acquainted with UK prisons for much of my life (family crap) and they're a joke. TVs, Gyms, Internet access, shops, decent food. I realise that not all prisoners get these facilities, but I don't feel that many (if any) should have such access. Prison is too often used as a free hotel, due to our compulsion to treat inmates with the decency that they do not deserve.
Rapists? Starve the ****ers, let them soil themselves for months, concrete floor for a bed, whatever. Murderers should be killed after years of harsh treatment. The list goes on. If we treat these people the way they deserve, then perhaps there would be less of them to begin with.
I realise that morality comes into play here - but I see it in terms of simple utilitarianism. No conditions, no special statuses for human beings, just the pain caused to victims of these people and the punishment that they really deserve. -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Location: Omicron Persei 8
Re: Loss of Human rights.Lol well I'm glad the people that make the rules on 'who deserves human rights' are well versed on such matters, because clearly some people are very naive with their opinions on human rights and in some cases simply do not understand the concept of human rights.
Last edited by Foghorn Leghorn; 20-07-2012 at 01:11. -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Location: Leeds
- Posts: 2,553
Re: Loss of Human rights.Again I don't think you understand the whole concept. A rapist should't lose any human rights when they are accused, because that is all that has happened - they have been accused. Whether they have committed the crime or not is up to a fair jury to decide, which falls under article 6 and 11.(Original post by sjcxxx)
Right yeah, perhaps there's a distinction to be made.
Mostly I'm referring to human rights or natural rights - rights that we have to particular states of being just because we are human - and how they're unfounded. We do not deserve or have a right to anything simply because we are human, which seems to be the way many see it nowadays. What we deserve and how we are treat within society then should be dependent on things - how far we treat others appropriately, for example.
Most of the rights I believe you are referring to are civil rights however, not human rights. Please don't assume you mean human rights because you hear people badmouthing them in the media - they probably don't know what they are either.
Here is a useful article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...f_Human_Rights -
- Reputation:
- Respected Member
- Posts: 224
Re: Loss of Human rights.Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology? I'm speaking more of morality and less of law & the like.(Original post by Fynch101)
Again I don't think you understand the whole concept. A rapist should't lose any human rights when they are accused, because that is all that has happened - they have been accused. Whether they have committed the crime or not is up to a fair jury to decide, which falls under article 6 and 11.
Most of the rights I believe you are referring to are civil rights however, not human rights. Please don't assume you mean human rights because you hear people badmouthing them in the media - they probably don't know what they are either.
Here is a useful article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...f_Human_Rights
What I meant was probably more along the lines of 'I don't think human rights exist'. -
- Reputation:
- Overlord in Training
- Location: Omicron Persei 8
Re: Loss of Human rights.(Original post by sjcxxx)
Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology? I'm speaking more of morality and less of law & the like.
What I meant was probably more along the lines of 'I don't think human rights exist'.
No they definitely exist, there is no argument there. -
- Reputation:
- Respected Member
- Posts: 204
Re: Loss of Human rights.Personally, I've always thought that everyone should be entitled to their human rights almost no matter what they've done - although things like committing genocide should lose a person theirs.
One issue I can see with this is what if someone is wrongly convicted? You've essentially made someone's life hell, all for something they haven't done. Also, how does creating a legal system more bothered about revenge and punishment than reform help society - wouldn't you rather try and turn criminals into decent citizens? Obviously I accept that it won't always work, but you should still try.(Original post by sjcxxx)
I've always had strong views on this, but many seem to be disgusted by them.
In short, the developed world has gone human rights mad. Unconditional human rights that is, rights we have merely because we are human, due to the likes of religion and our own sense of self-importance. As a species, we tend to consider all human life as somewhat sacred.
My feelings on this matter are quite simple; namely, any individual who infringes on the rights of another should lose his/her own rights to the appropriate extent. Capitol punishment is a big yes, in my opinion. Have you ever been in a prison? Unfortunately I've been acquainted with UK prisons for much of my life (family crap) and they're a joke. TVs, Gyms, Internet access, shops, decent food. I realise that not all prisoners get these facilities, but I don't feel that many (if any) should have such access. Prison is too often used as a free hotel, due to our compulsion to treat inmates with the decency that they do not deserve.
Rapists? Starve the ****ers, let them soil themselves for months, concrete floor for a bed, whatever. Murderers should be killed after years of harsh treatment. The list goes on. If we treat these people the way they deserve, then perhaps there would be less of them to begin with.
I realise that morality comes into play here - but I see it in terms of simple utilitarianism. No conditions, no special statuses for human beings, just the pain caused to victims of these people and the punishment that they really deserve.Last edited by Revilo1; 20-07-2012 at 19:48. Reason: Grammar -
- Reputation:
- Exalted and Worshipped Member
- Location: Oxford
- Posts: 1,139
Re: Loss of Human rights.Perhaps the simplest argument for depriving people of human rights is the utilitarian one. 'Human rights' are legal rights, not natural rights, so if removing them from people promotes the greatest happiness for the greatest number it's morally right to do so.
-
- Reputation:
- TSR Idol
- Location: Dorset
- Posts: 8,879
Re: Loss of Human rights.I really hate it when you get idiots who go on a campaign against terror suspects, murderers or paedophiles and say "well they should loose their rights because they took other people's rights away!!11!1!" Such people really don't understand what the rights are there for.
-
- Reputation:
- Adored and Respected Member
- Location: Dundee
- Posts: 455
Re: Loss of Human rights.Well said.(Original post by Fynch101)
Poster number 2 doesn't understand the concept of human rights.
Human rights apply to every human being, regardless of a whole list of things, i.e. what they have done, their skin colour etc.
Civil rights apply to every human being, but at least some are lost as a result of an infringement in another person's civil, or even human rights. -
- Reputation:
- Exalted Member
- Posts: 394
Re: Loss of Human rights.The thing about human rights is, they either apply to everyone or they don't - they're not human rights if they don't apply to all humans.(Original post by Kigreg)
Does anyone here have any arguments that people should lose their human rights, and right to be represented at a trial.
Yes, I know many people think you should have human rights no matter what, but I was just wondering if anyone has any arguments for PRO-loss of human rights and for what reasons i.e Rape, mass genocide etc..?
Furthermore, are there any philosophers who have arguments for loss of human rights?
Everyone has a right to a fair trial, or innocent people could be charged for stuff they haven't done. -
- Reputation:
- Respected Member
- Location: Norfolk
- Posts: 214
Re: Loss of Human rights.I think a lot of what you hear about human rights being only in the interest of criminals in the media are either extraordinary circumstances or completely unfounded. But human rights are actually a good thing it means if you are convicted of a crime you didn't commit you may appeal etc. They should be universal regardless of what you may have done. They can't be taken away that's the point of them because once they are taken away you descend back into previous eras. Where we know that harsher punishments weren't a great deterrent anyway as we can see by the falling crime rates. Reformation is better than the removal of human rights and subjecting them to torture.
-
- Reputation:
- Exalted and Worshipped Member
- Posts: 1,145
Re: Loss of Human rights.no one in jail is allowed internet access, why on earth do you think that?(Original post by sjcxxx)
I've always had strong views on this, but many seem to be disgusted by them.
In short, the developed world has gone human rights mad. Unconditional human rights that is, rights we have merely because we are human, due to the likes of religion and our own sense of self-importance. As a species, we tend to consider all human life as somewhat sacred.
My feelings on this matter are quite simple; namely, any individual who infringes on the rights of another should lose his/her own rights to the appropriate extent. Capitol punishment is a big yes, in my opinion. Have you ever been in a prison? Unfortunately I've been acquainted with UK prisons for much of my life (family crap) and they're a joke. TVs, Gyms, Internet access, shops, decent food. I realise that not all prisoners get these facilities, but I don't feel that many (if any) should have such access. Prison is too often used as a free hotel, due to our compulsion to treat inmates with the decency that they do not deserve.
Rapists? Starve the ****ers, let them soil themselves for months, concrete floor for a bed, whatever. Murderers should be killed after years of harsh treatment. The list goes on. If we treat these people the way they deserve, then perhaps there would be less of them to begin with.
I realise that morality comes into play here - but I see it in terms of simple utilitarianism. No conditions, no special statuses for human beings, just the pain caused to victims of these people and the punishment that they really deserve.
our system is based on rehabilitation and prisoners have to earn basic things like tvs, they have levels basic a middle level and advanced based on the behaviour of the prisoner and if they are working in education etc and sticking their neck out
only prisoners on advanced which requires months of working and all round being a decent prisoner are allowed games consoles and if you misbehave you go on basic where you dont even have a tv
their 'shops' consist of a short list given once a week where they can tick off and buy the very basic of items like shampoos, toothbrushes, tobacco, sweets, biscuits whatever which takes a week to come
people need exercise to stay healthy, especially when most of their time is spent in 1 small cell, again the prison system isnt based on affecting peoples physical health negatively
then your looking at the very limited time prisoners are allowed in the gym, mostly what 3 hours a week or even less
seriously please learn something about the prison system before you made ridiculous claims like these hereLast edited by badcheesecrispy; 22-07-2012 at 00:23. -
- Reputation:
- Exalted and Worshipped Member
- Posts: 1,145
Re: Loss of Human rights.i will add that in womens prisons they sometimes have avon that girls can order from
even then to afford it you'd have to work a lot in prison or be being sent cash from outside due to the price, inwhich case its no one elses business what the prisoner spends it on -
- Reputation:
- Thread Starter
- New Member
- Posts: 24
Re: Loss of Human rights.Now what I asked was does anyone have any arguments FOR loss of human rights... and only about two people contributed towards that. I know there are opposing views but please could you contribute towards PRO loss of HR.
Thanks
-
- Reputation:
- Vengeful, Imperial Overlord of The Student Room
- Location: Edinburgh!
- Posts: 4,839
Re: Loss of Human rights.I don´t see why one should lower themselves to the criminal´s level. That is why I´m against losing human rights and capital punishment. Prison for life is the best option for the most horrific of crimes - and when I say life I mean life.
