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Cricket: England v South Africa

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    What are your predictions? I actually think SA could beat us 2-0. I think Steyn is considerably better than any of our quickies. I actually thought our batting line up was better than theirs before this test. Swann hasn't featured at all this match? Pretty disappointing all in all. However, I suppose its only one match
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    Test cricket invariably has some twists to it so let us wait and see. Not even a single test has been won at the time of writing.
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    (Original post by UlrichZA)
    Test cricket invariably has some twists to it so let us wait and see. Not even a single test has been won at the time of writing.
    Tbh, I just think SA are better than England and Im English. I mean the last 2 series we have drawn to them (which they prob should have won) and lost 2-1 over here. Are you South African?
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    SA seem incredibly well balanced. Taking 20 wickets in the Oval conditions was a good effort.

    England should consider dropping Bopara and picking Finn. That would at least match the balance SA have with the 4th seamer.

    What's more worrying for England isn't just the ability of the SA players, it's the mentality. They are not easily flustered and this win will only encourage them to be more aggressive. Philander, for example, is one who could be devastating in the right conditions. De Villiers didn't even bat. There is plenty more in the tank for SA but we'll see what happens.
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    (Original post by Overmars)
    SA seem incredibly well balanced. Taking 20 wickets in the Oval conditions was a good effort.

    England should consider dropping Bopara and picking Finn. That would at least match the balance SA have with the 4th seamer.

    What's more worrying for England isn't just the ability of the SA players, it's the mentality. They are not easily flustered and this win will only encourage them to be more aggressive. Philander, for example, is one who could be devastating in the right conditions. De Villiers didn't even bat. There is plenty more in the tank for SA but we'll see what happens.
    yeh, I don't think Bopara should be in the side, I mean he just can't cut it, silly shots getting himself out twice, he's just not good enough. We need an out and out pace bowler who can swing it, Jimmy is quite innocuous when there's no swing as shown. I would have picked Finn as well, prob instead of Bresnan but we need to strengthen our bowling clearly. Cannot believe Swann got no wickets.
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    (Original post by hiding12)
    yeh, I don't think Bopara should be in the side, I mean he just can't cut it, silly shots getting himself out twice, he's just not good enough. We need an out and out pace bowler who can swing it, Jimmy is quite innocuous when there's no swing as shown. I would have picked Finn as well, prob instead of Bresnan but we need to strengthen our bowling clearly. Cannot believe Swann got no wickets.
    Anderson is a top out and out pace bowler who can swing it. He's top notch - for my money, second best only to Steyn. Bresnan justifies his selection as a batsman - for a no.7 to have an average over 40 is very good. Bopara's position is the problem. England can push Prior and Bresnan up the order and pick Finn. They won't though.
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    (Original post by Overmars)
    Anderson is a top out and out pace bowler who can swing it. He's top notch - for my money, second best only to Steyn. Bresnan justifies his selection as a batsman - for a no.7 to have an average over 40 is very good. Bopara's position is the problem. England can push Prior and Bresnan up the order and pick Finn. They won't though.
    Well he's not really as quick as Steyn, we need Flintoff back. The problem is having Prior at 6 would be a problem we were skittled out cheaply in the second innings, but then again we only took 2 wickets so I suppose its difficult to know whether to strengthen batting or bowling. I would have Finn in and perhaps we should play Prior at 6 like you suggest. I'm very concerned about our bowling attack, Anderson didn't even come close to Steyn in this match
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    South Africa have been playing very well but it's far from over. Don't really watch many test matches, but so far this has been very entertaining.
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    (Original post by Swanbow)
    South Africa have been playing very well but it's far from over. Don't really watch many test matches, but so far this has been very entertaining.
    entertaining if you're a South African, haha
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    Bresnan, Broad and Swann cannot be seen as all-rounders. They are bowlers who can bat OK. Therefore, having a tail of Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Finn would be way to long for England. There batting performances was just as bad as the bowling, but that doesn't mean they should weaken one or the other. No one has really picked on Broad because of his performances last summer against India. But honestly, he is not that good of a bowler. He was bowling against a under cooked India side in perfect seaming conditions. Bresnan showed he is a better batsmen, and in my opinion, a better bowler. But, England unlikely to make any changes, at least for the next test. If Finn comes in for Bopara, Englands batting will become even more suspect against a high quality bowling attack
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    Bresnan has an average of 40+. He hasn't played too many tests so we don't know whether he can maintain that but, as it stands, he certainly counts as an all-rounder. And 'Broad, Swann, Anderson' - as far as tails go, is a pretty good one. Bresnan can be counted as a legitimate no.7 so I don't see the problem. England's middle order might be a little weaker though I would argue that Bopara isn't really fit for Test cricket anyway.

    I do agree about Broad. I think his attitude stinks on days where things aren't going for him. His moaning at the end of day 2 or 3 blaming a flat wicket which SA had no problems taking 20 wickets on was pathetic. I think Finn is a star talent and should be given a chance.
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    (Original post by hiding12)
    entertaining if you're a South African, haha
    Mwahah!
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    (Original post by Overmars)
    Bresnan has an average of 40+. He hasn't played too many tests so we don't know whether he can maintain that but, as it stands, he certainly counts as an all-rounder. And 'Broad, Swann, Anderson' - as far as tails go, is a pretty good one. Bresnan can be counted as a legitimate no.7 so I don't see the problem. England's middle order might be a little weaker though I would argue that Bopara isn't really fit for Test cricket anyway.

    I do agree about Broad. I think his attitude stinks on days where things aren't going for him. His moaning at the end of day 2 or 3 blaming a flat wicket which SA had no problems taking 20 wickets on was pathetic. I think Finn is a star talent and should be given a chance.
    I think we lost this match more in the bowling that the batting as we were only able to take 2 wickets so I think Finn should come in as well. I personally would try Prior at 6 and we would still have a decent tail. Wish we could find a no 6, but then again Bopara can bowl a little bit...
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    (Original post by robotpenguin)
    Bresnan, Broad and Swann cannot be seen as all-rounders. They are bowlers who can bat OK. Therefore, having a tail of Bresnan, Broad, Swann, Anderson and Finn would be way to long for England. There batting performances was just as bad as the bowling, but that doesn't mean they should weaken one or the other. No one has really picked on Broad because of his performances last summer against India. But honestly, he is not that good of a bowler. He was bowling against a under cooked India side in perfect seaming conditions. Bresnan showed he is a better batsmen, and in my opinion, a better bowler. But, England unlikely to make any changes, at least for the next test. If Finn comes in for Bopara, Englands batting will become even more suspect against a high quality bowling attack
    There's all rounders and then there's ALL ROUNDERS. Kallis the later but Bresnan and Broad do count as all rounders due to their averages, statistically Broad was better than Flintoff last time I checked but it would be nice if they got more runs
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    Statistics mean nothing. If I said to you, who would you have in your side, Broad/Bresnan or Kallis, you would laugh at me. Kallis is a better bowler, batsmen and fielder than both of them. Broad is not an all rounder, but a bowler who can hit the ball towards the end of an innings (and inconsistently at that). Bresnan is more of an all rounder due to his more sound batting technique, but is still light years away from Kallis. There are so many better all rounders in International Cricket, and to call Broad an all rounder is an insult to them. The only genuine all rounders in cricket now are Kallis, Watson, Vettori, Mathews and Hafeez at a push.
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    (Original post by robotpenguin)
    Statistics mean nothing. If I said to you, who would you have in your side, Broad/Bresnan or Kallis, you would laugh at me. Kallis is a better bowler, batsmen and fielder than both of them. Broad is not an all rounder, but a bowler who can hit the ball towards the end of an innings (and inconsistently at that). Bresnan is more of an all rounder due to his more sound batting technique, but is still light years away from Kallis. There are so many better all rounders in International Cricket, and to call Broad an all rounder is an insult to them. The only genuine all rounders in cricket now are Kallis, Watson, Vettori, Mathews and Hafeez at a push.
    Stating the obvious, but Watson might just qualify as an all rounder as well, although his bowling isn't as good as it was but Kallis is a one in a generation
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    If they've played enough Tests, of course statistics matter. I don't think there are many good all-rounders in cricket right now. Kallis is an exceptional exception and it's not fair to use him as a yardstick to compare other all-rounders.

    I agree that Broad isn't but I would say Bresnan, at the moment, is. I have my doubts as to whether he can maintain such a high batting average but so far so good.
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    What about Gayle and Samuels? I remember being a very capable bowler, with over 200 international wickets. However, I hardly see him bowl nowadays. He only becomes an option when West Indies are seriously struggling an out of ideas?
    Samuels is a different story. His bowling action is very suspect, but seems to be bowling a lot more? His batting is becoming better, but his bowling seems to be mainly a method of stopping runs being scored and building pressure.

    Are any of these two genuine all rounders?

    Also, could you name an acceptable yard stick for all-rounders rather than Kallis?
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    (Original post by robotpenguin)
    What about Gayle and Samuels? I remember being a very capable bowler, with over 200 international wickets. However, I hardly see him bowl nowadays. He only becomes an option when West Indies are seriously struggling an out of ideas?
    Samuels is a different story. His bowling action is very suspect, but seems to be bowling a lot more? His batting is becoming better, but his bowling seems to be mainly a method of stopping runs being scored and building pressure.

    Are any of these two genuine all rounders?

    Also, could you name an acceptable yard stick for all-rounders rather than Kallis?
    I wouldnt consider Gayle and Samuels genuine all rounders, just good batssmen who can turn their arm over, posing no proper threat with ball. I would suggest someone like Watson and Bresnan average all rounders

Updated: July 26, 2012
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