do the Scottish get a huge advantage?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by ConnorMcKenzie
Point well made!
If the Scottish Government are giving Scottish students free education and its within their budget, why not?
Obviously I believe we won't have the money to maintain it forever, but why shouldn't we benefit just now?
If the Scottish Government are giving Scottish students free education and its within their budget, why not?
Obviously I believe we won't have the money to maintain it forever, but why shouldn't we benefit just now?
because that's exactly what Gordon brown and his blasted end to boom and bust speech did to England, leading to a worse situation in the world recession...
Original post by johndoranglasgow
Good luck with that, education is a devolved matter - really nothing to be done. Don't get all jelly over the 9k tuition, there's one Tory MP up here 
I'm ashamed to say I live in his constituency...
Original post by Norton1
That's largely dependent on what law you choose to use. It's Scotland's oil.
There's no choice in the matter, there is one law for determining where national waters are and that's written in the UN charter, seconded (word for word) by the EU. Scotland want more, they have to negotiate with England for it. Of course, that would be an exceptional display of generosity to just give away...I suspect England might want something in return.
Original post by The Mr Z
There's no choice in the matter, there is one law for determining where national waters are and that's written in the UN charter, seconded (word for word) by the EU. Scotland want more, they have to negotiate with England for it. Of course, that would be an exceptional display of generosity to just give away...I suspect England might want something in return.
Disagree. But there's a finite time before we die so let's leave that aspect of it.
They might get rid of the subsidy junkies they're always complaining about? The fact is the English have a schizophrenic attitude to Scotland, on the one hand they never stop moaning about the policies that Scotland has in place and about the money Scotland costs. On the other hand THERE WILL BE NO INDEPENDENCE.
Make your mind up guys.
Original post by Norton1
The fact is the English have a schizophrenic attitude to Scotland, on the one hand they never stop moaning about the policies that Scotland has in place and about the money Scotland costs. On the other hand THERE WILL BE NO INDEPENDENCE.
Make your mind up guys.
Make your mind up guys.
Agree.
Original post by Norton1
Disagree. But there's a finite time before we die so let's leave that aspect of it.
They might get rid of the subsidy junkies they're always complaining about? The fact is the English have a schizophrenic attitude to Scotland, on the one hand they never stop moaning about the policies that Scotland has in place and about the money Scotland costs. On the other hand THERE WILL BE NO INDEPENDENCE.
Make your mind up guys.
They might get rid of the subsidy junkies they're always complaining about? The fact is the English have a schizophrenic attitude to Scotland, on the one hand they never stop moaning about the policies that Scotland has in place and about the money Scotland costs. On the other hand THERE WILL BE NO INDEPENDENCE.
Make your mind up guys.
no the daily mail does, not the intelligent classes...
Original post by Sly Blade
Heh, i tried however...
... The UK is not one country... it is if anything the union of the British isle and Northern Ireland. By definition it is the union of what is considered ot be 2 separate geological countries.
You obviously lack an understanding to what makes a country... There is more to a country than just its geological borders, for you to be able to claim what you have you must ignore that Scotland shares a common people, its own 'assembly' and a recent History as a separate country. No individual part of England can claim that. i could probably put this all a lot better and slightly less aggressively but i'm tired and therefore i apologise.
I can't argue with this as we obviously share different definitions of a country. Though i fear yours is the one that would stand up in court, though not necessarily historically accurate. However can you name any individual location in England that is less that a tenth of the population that has been recognised as its own authority?
... The UK is not one country... it is if anything the union of the British isle and Northern Ireland. By definition it is the union of what is considered ot be 2 separate geological countries.
You obviously lack an understanding to what makes a country... There is more to a country than just its geological borders, for you to be able to claim what you have you must ignore that Scotland shares a common people, its own 'assembly' and a recent History as a separate country. No individual part of England can claim that. i could probably put this all a lot better and slightly less aggressively but i'm tired and therefore i apologise.
I can't argue with this as we obviously share different definitions of a country. Though i fear yours is the one that would stand up in court, though not necessarily historically accurate. However can you name any individual location in England that is less that a tenth of the population that has been recognised as its own authority?
The misunderstanding over what a country is I get, it's not a well publicised definition, but it is well defined and the definition is exact. The UK is one, single country. Not a union. It includes Great Britain, NI, the small British Isles, the Channel Islands, The Falklands and other overseas possessions of the Crown.
Sharing people and culture is not part of being a country - see the USA, India, Turkey, Germany, Russia, China, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and numerous African states for countries with multiple peoples and cultures. Also see Palestine and Kurdistan for peoples and cultures without a recognised associated country, and in the latter split across multiple countries.
I can in fact name two - firstly London, and secondly part of Cumbria (which even has its own foreign policy, a historical quirk meant it was still at war with Russia until last year since the rest of the UK signed a peace treaty in the 1800s)
For a case in what makes somewhere a separate country, I should refer you to the recent splitting of Sudan into North and South. The key factor is a UN (security council) mandate for recognition.
Just out of Curiosity is the queen not still Scotland's head of state?
And that's why we are a Constitutional Monarchy (sorry just wanted to say that.) I don't understand your point here sorry. England still holds the majority representation in both does it not?
And that's why we are a Constitutional Monarchy (sorry just wanted to say that.) I don't understand your point here sorry. England still holds the majority representation in both does it not?
England holds majority representation (although it's not like it votes as a single body) as it should, given it also holds the majority population. Scotland is in fact over-represented in both for its population (Although the Tories want very much to change that)
The queen is head of state of the UK. As Scotland is part of the UK, she is head of state there too, but in the case of an independent Scotland it is not necessarily.
Westminster can impose any law on solely Scotland as it sees fit, if voted for by the majority.
No it can't. That was part of the decentralisation. Westminster only passes legislation for the UK as a whole, and as demonstrated by tuition fees, can be overruled in fact by the local assemblies.
Original post by pshewitt1
No I intend as I have already begun my road onto being a broker... I'm fairly certain I will have paid back my loan in full as is fair to do so. You can blame this all on Tony Blair' ideal of 90% of students going to university... you've got to take into account that you will also never pay the full amount back unless you earn somewhere in the region of 48k for the full 30 years.
where have I stated that?
where have I stated that?
Paying back the full loan is relatively unlikely, but I did some calculations and if you earnt the median graduate salary for your starting salary - the median for all graduates old and young so that would take into account promotions etc - and then your salary increased in line with inflation, then you would pay back £78,648.94 over the 30 years, but you still wouldn't have paid back your entire loan - the government would have to write off £17,344.20. This assumes a starting loan of £40,000 at the end of university - in all likelyhood it would be higher than this, and the median graduate salary (according to government figures) of £31,000. So although most people won't technically pay back the loan in full - you would have to have a starting salary of £35,226 to do that using the same calculation methods. I was in correspondance with the universities minister over this, and he says my calculations are correct. So some students will pay back more than double what they orinigally took out, yet the government will still have to write off some of their loan.
I dunno if any of that is any use or makes any sense, but I've got the spreadsheet I used to do the maths if you want to try putting any other figures in.
Original post by Norton1
Disagree. But there's a finite time before we die so let's leave that aspect of it.
They might get rid of the subsidy junkies they're always complaining about? The fact is the English have a schizophrenic attitude to Scotland, on the one hand they never stop moaning about the policies that Scotland has in place and about the money Scotland costs. On the other hand THERE WILL BE NO INDEPENDENCE.
Make your mind up guys.
They might get rid of the subsidy junkies they're always complaining about? The fact is the English have a schizophrenic attitude to Scotland, on the one hand they never stop moaning about the policies that Scotland has in place and about the money Scotland costs. On the other hand THERE WILL BE NO INDEPENDENCE.
Make your mind up guys.
Disagree? There's an international law, it's not a matter of opinion!
Actually, The English are overwhelmingly in favour of Scottish independence, but also overwhelmingly against giving any concessions to an independent Scotland. Mainly the consensus is you should either shut up or get out. (Sort of attitude your mum would have displayed when you were putting up a fight at home as a kid) They mostly don't think Scotland would fair well on its own, that it's all bluffing. They're right, it wouldn't. But perhaps the Scottish would be more content.
I personally think both the Scottish independents and the English who hold this sort of confrontational view are being childish.
Original post by E13
Paying back the full loan is relatively unlikely, but I did some calculations and if you earnt the median graduate salary for your starting salary - the median for all graduates old and young so that would take into account promotions etc - and then your salary increased in line with inflation, then you would pay back £78,648.94 over the 30 years, but you still wouldn't have paid back your entire loan - the government would have to write off £17,344.20. This assumes a starting loan of £40,000 at the end of university - in all likelyhood it would be higher than this, and the median graduate salary (according to government figures) of £31,000. So although most people won't technically pay back the loan in full - you would have to have a starting salary of £35,226 to do that using the same calculation methods. I was in correspondance with the universities minister over this, and he says my calculations are correct. So some students will pay back more than double what they orinigally took out, yet the government will still have to write off some of their loan.
I dunno if any of that is any use or makes any sense, but I've got the spreadsheet I used to do the maths if you want to try putting any other figures in.
I dunno if any of that is any use or makes any sense, but I've got the spreadsheet I used to do the maths if you want to try putting any other figures in.
hmm that's interesting...when I was speaking to the student finance people about it all we worked it out to be 48,000 for the full 30 years? However I'm sure your spreadsheet is correct, would be interesting to see
Original post by The Mr Z
The misunderstanding over what a country is I get, it's not a well publicised definition, but it is well defined and the definition is exact. The UK is one, single country. Not a union. It includes Great Britain, NI, the small British Isles, the Channel Islands, The Falklands and other overseas possessions of the Crown.
Ok, i won't argue here, simply i can't, however possessions of the crown? i might be grasping at straws here but does that not include the commonwealth?
Original post by The Mr Z
Sharing people and culture is not part of being a country - see the USA, India, Turkey, Germany, Russia, China, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and numerous African states for countries with multiple peoples and cultures. Also see Palestine and Kurdistan for peoples and cultures without a recognised associated country, and in the latter split across multiple countries.
Sharing people and culture is not part of being a country - see the USA, India, Turkey, Germany, Russia, China, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and numerous African states for countries with multiple peoples and cultures. Also see Palestine and Kurdistan for peoples and cultures without a recognised associated country, and in the latter split across multiple countries.
I would have simply said Britain however i do not remember mentioning culture specifically. BUT if you went to any of these countries and asked their population to which country they belonged would they not state the corresponding country. As is similar in Scotland to my understanding the Majority of people in Scotland still choose to be called Scottish over British though i may be wrong
however we are going horribly off topic in my eyes so i will submit the point.Original post by The Mr Z
I can in fact name two - firstly London, and secondly part of Cumbria (which even has its own foreign policy, a historical quirk meant it was still at war with Russia until last year since the rest of the UK signed a peace treaty in the 1800s)
I can in fact name two - firstly London, and secondly part of Cumbria (which even has its own foreign policy, a historical quirk meant it was still at war with Russia until last year since the rest of the UK signed a peace treaty in the 1800s)
London does not have an assembly devoted to it? Nor does Cumbria? I apologise if i missed your point.
Original post by The Mr Z
For a case in what makes somewhere a separate country, I should refer you to the recent splitting of Sudan into North and South. The key factor is a UN (security council) mandate for recognition.
For a case in what makes somewhere a separate country, I should refer you to the recent splitting of Sudan into North and South. The key factor is a UN (security council) mandate for recognition.
Thank you the information you have actually taught me a few things which is always good.
Original post by The Mr Z
England holds majority representation (although it's not like it votes as a single body) as it should, given it also holds the majority population. Scotland is in fact over-represented in both for its population (Although the Tories want very much to change that)
England holds majority representation (although it's not like it votes as a single body) as it should, given it also holds the majority population. Scotland is in fact over-represented in both for its population (Although the Tories want very much to change that)
I agree i can't argue with this, But i feel it is over represented in comparison to Wales and N.Ireland, Not England. As England has the majority, it cannot be blamed on Scotland for them being indecisive instead of acting as a unit.
Original post by The Mr Z
The queen is head of state of the UK. As Scotland is part of the UK, she is head of state there too, but in the case of an independent Scotland it is not necessarily.
The queen is head of state of the UK. As Scotland is part of the UK, she is head of state there too, but in the case of an independent Scotland it is not necessarily.
I may be wrong but it is well established that Scotland would 'keep' the Queen
Original post by The Mr Z
No it can't. That was part of the decentralisation. Westminster only passes legislation for the UK as a whole, and as demonstrated by tuition fees, can be overruled in fact by the local assemblies.
No it can't. That was part of the decentralisation. Westminster only passes legislation for the UK as a whole, and as demonstrated by tuition fees, can be overruled in fact by the local assemblies.
That's confusing because i do know for a fact it has the power to overrule anything the Scottish Assembly try to pass.
And one last thing you mentioned oil in another post, Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999 as part of the devolved parliament of Scotland was Scotland not given (i think) 80%+ of the oil populated waters.
Original post by The Mr Z
No it can't. That was part of the decentralisation. Westminster only passes legislation for the UK as a whole, and as demonstrated by tuition fees, can be overruled in fact by the local assemblies.
On a pure technicality you're incorrect. Look up Sewel motions.
Original post by The Mr Z
Disagree? There's an international law, it's not a matter of opinion!
Actually, The English are overwhelmingly in favour of Scottish independence, but also overwhelmingly against giving any concessions to an independent Scotland. Mainly the consensus is you should either shut up or get out. (Sort of attitude your mum would have displayed when you were putting up a fight at home as a kid) They mostly don't think Scotland would fair well on its own, that it's all bluffing. They're right, it wouldn't. But perhaps the Scottish would be more content.
I personally think both the Scottish independents and the English who hold this sort of confrontational view are being childish.
Actually, The English are overwhelmingly in favour of Scottish independence, but also overwhelmingly against giving any concessions to an independent Scotland. Mainly the consensus is you should either shut up or get out. (Sort of attitude your mum would have displayed when you were putting up a fight at home as a kid) They mostly don't think Scotland would fair well on its own, that it's all bluffing. They're right, it wouldn't. But perhaps the Scottish would be more content.
I personally think both the Scottish independents and the English who hold this sort of confrontational view are being childish.
If you know anything about the law you know it's all a matter of opinion. Plus there's hardly an 'overwhelming' majority in England for Scottish independence. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9015374/Britain-divided-over-Scottish-independence.html)
Happily, the overwhelming majority of Scottish people don't want independence. The fact that you make the comparison of a child at home would - I suggest - show your own immaturity rather than that of the independents. It's national politics, your jejune comparison doesn't do it justice.
Original post by The Mr Z
Disagree? There's an international law, it's not a matter of opinion!
Actually, The English are overwhelmingly in favour of Scottish independence, but also overwhelmingly against giving any concessions to an independent Scotland. Mainly the consensus is you should either shut up or get out. (Sort of attitude your mum would have displayed when you were putting up a fight at home as a kid) They mostly don't think Scotland would fair well on its own, that it's all bluffing. They're right, it wouldn't. But perhaps the Scottish would be more content.
I personally think both the Scottish independents and the English who hold this sort of confrontational view are being childish.
Actually, The English are overwhelmingly in favour of Scottish independence, but also overwhelmingly against giving any concessions to an independent Scotland. Mainly the consensus is you should either shut up or get out. (Sort of attitude your mum would have displayed when you were putting up a fight at home as a kid) They mostly don't think Scotland would fair well on its own, that it's all bluffing. They're right, it wouldn't. But perhaps the Scottish would be more content.
I personally think both the Scottish independents and the English who hold this sort of confrontational view are being childish.
If Scotland went independent right now assuming it assuming it changed no policies it would be losing 3 (crap i've forgotten) it was either billion or million a year. Excluding recent oil discoveries. The free education costs the Government this exact (mre or less) amount, and there are other things a Independent Scotland could give up... and is it just me or has this become more of an independence/oil debate
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by pshewitt1
hmm that's interesting...when I was speaking to the student finance people about it all we worked it out to be 48,000 for the full 30 years? However I'm sure your spreadsheet is correct, would be interesting to see
Is there a way of uploading this stuff onto TSR, if there is I'd be happy to do that?
Original post by E13
Is there a way of uploading this stuff onto TSR, if there is I'd be happy to do that?
not sure? if not I could probably give you my email? then you can just attach it?
Original post by pshewitt1
just wondering if I'm right in thinking as they get their results earlier they get to go into clearing as well? giving them several weeks more than us ( the rest of the UK) and a horribly unfair advantage of a university education? then on top of which they pay half what we do?(if they go to a Scottish uni)? IF I'm wrong please say, if not shouldn't the government really do something about it?
when does clearing start for scottish candidates?
Original post by pshewitt1
hmm that's interesting...when I was speaking to the student finance people about it all we worked it out to be 48,000 for the full 30 years? However I'm sure your spreadsheet is correct, would be interesting to see
There we are, worked it out, I think they're attached. The spreadsheet you can just plug numbers into, and the word doctument should be the algebra explaining what I did to get the spreadsheet.
Edit: Sorry, didn't see you had replied so quoted the wrong post.
Original post by ZeeAli
when does clearing start for scottish candidates?
next week apparently?
Original post by InkingTheSky
Scottish universities reject a lot of Scottish applicants as they would rather get the inflated fees from other UK applicants, the Scottish government pay a lot less to them than £9K per student! It's actually more difficult to find a place in university up here I feel.
I think this is true, they want more and more UK applicants instead of Scottish so are restricting the places available for us. For example, the difference between the list of vacancies available here http://www.dundee.ac.uk/clearing/scottish_eu/ and here http://www.dundee.ac.uk/clearing/rest_of_uk/ at Dundee Uni is massive
it feels like it's going to become like the divide between UK/EU applicants and Internationals tbh.
Original post by johndoranglasgow
Good luck with that, education is a devolved matter - really nothing to be done. Don't get all jelly over the 9k tuition, there's one Tory MP up here
"one Tory MP" Lucky *****.
Quick Reply
Related discussions
- Vet School Applications
- Adv higher Maths Physics, crash adv business OR adv maths physics and crash H busines
- KCL vs Edinburgh?
- edinburgh uni degree length
- why is scotland, wales and NI getting advanced info for exams but england isnt
- Is going to university in London worth it over staying in Glasgow
- dentistry
- does not taking further maths disadvantage me for physics degree?
- Advanced higher subjects for medicine
- Am I choosing the right subjects for Law?
- Is there a list anywhere of degrees with ab initio languages, i.e French/Spanish?
- Can I do Advanced Highers after A levels?
- Edinburgh Law 2024
- Will a score of 2510 get me into a dental school?
- Bristol vs Edinburgh vs Exeter vs Leeds
- Applying to university of edinburgh
- Surrey vs Exeter for Law.
- A*A*C for a courses requiring A*AA/AAA/ABB
- Medicine Wiki [currently a Work In Progress]
- Medicine degree
Latest
Trending
Last reply 1 day ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 1 day ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 1 day ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 1 day ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
