[Andy08]

Hey there,

I've been lifting fairly seriously for about a year now but am only just starting to get serious about my diet. I have decided to go for a bulk for 1-2 months, followed by a cut.

I have knocked up a spreadsheet which monitors calories and the breakdown by fat, carbs and protein etc.

My maintenance level is apparently around 2500 cal (using online calculators - i suspect this is a bit high as I have maintained weight on less). Therefore I'm going to go for a 400 cal surplus, but only on workout days (4-5 days a week). on non workout days I am going to consume around 2300 cals.

So anyway, I'm pretty pleased with this quick knock up - it should help me keep focus with a more scientific/numerical approach. Can any fitness gurus let me know what they think of it/my plan in general? Also, on my first day of eating surplus, it seems like a hell of a lot of food/protein shakes (esp. carbs - would rarely eat more than 80g a day before), is this normal?

Spreadsheet is attached!

Thanks!!

[crocker710]

(Original post by Andy08)
Hey there,

I've been lifting fairly seriously for about a year now but am only just starting to get serious about my diet. I have decided to go for a bulk for 1-2 months, followed by a cut.

I have knocked up a spreadsheet which monitors calories and the breakdown by fat, carbs and protein etc.

My maintenance level is apparently around 2500 cal (using online calculators - i suspect this is a bit high as I have maintained weight on less). Therefore I'm going to go for a 400 cal surplus, but only on workout days (4-5 days a week). on non workout days I am going to consume around 2300 cals.

So anyway, I'm pretty pleased with this quick knock up - it should help me keep focus with a more scientific/numerical approach. Can any fitness gurus let me know what they think of it/my plan in general? Also, on my first day of eating surplus, it seems like a hell of a lot of food/protein shakes (esp. carbs - would rarely eat more than 80g a day before), is this normal?

Spreadsheet is attached!

Thanks!!

2500Kcal for maintenance sounds low, especially if you're working out 4-5 times a week with heavy weight lifting. If you're wanting to bulk, 2900Kcal sounds low too (even for a clean bulk).

Try this to see if this helps a bit,

[-]Work out your BMR
[-]Work out your H-B equ. (found here)
[-]Work out the calorie maintenance
[-]Add 250-500 Kcal onto this to 'bulk'

[Jonnyy]

Would only add 250 cals at the start for a ~0.5lb/week gain, anybody who gains too fast usually will regret the fat that comes with it.

[stayce88]

Why only bulk for 1-2 months?

[Andy08]

(Original post by stayce88)
Why only bulk for 1-2 months?

I'm slightly ocd about bodyfat - I really don't want to go above 13-14% so figured I'd bulk and cut in shorter intervals.

(Original post by crocker710)
2500Kcal for maintenance sounds low, especially if you're working out 4-5 times a week with heavy weight lifting. If you're wanting to bulk, 2900Kcal sounds low too (even for a clean bulk).

Try this to see if this helps a bit,

[-]Work out your BMR
[-]Work out your H-B equ. (found here)
[-]Work out the calorie maintenance
[-]Add 250-500 Kcal onto this to 'bulk'

Awesome, thanks. I'm adding this into the spreadsheet to automatically update the maintenance level as weight increases.

(Original post by Jonnyy)
Would only add 250 cals at the start for a ~0.5lb/week gain, anybody who gains too fast usually will regret the fat that comes with it.

Noted, thanks. I'm going for a fairly clean bulk with as little sugar as possible, so I'm hoping too much bodyfat won't be a big issue.

[Jonnyy]

(Original post by Andy08)
Noted, thanks. I'm going for a fairly clean bulk with as little sugar as possible, so I'm hoping too much bodyfat won't be a big issue.

'Clean' bulking in regard to what you eat wont make a noticeable difference to your muscle gain .

'Clean' bulking in regard to your calorific surplus and macro-nutrient ratios will make a huge difference. Realistically, even with the perfect diet, you are only going to gain a maximum of 2lbs of muscle per month, so a 500 calorie surplus (which equates to a 1lb a week weight gain) will lead to more fat gain than a 250 calorie surplus (which equates to a 0.5lb a week weight gain).

[rattyryan]

(Original post by Andy08)
Noted, thanks. I'm going for a fairly clean bulk with as little sugar as possible, so I'm hoping too much bodyfat won't be a big issue.

If your bulking I feel the most important thing to utilize is your insulin sensitivity pwo. Having sugar intra and pwo will have the least negative effect on your body and more of an anabolic effect. Im cutting and i still have some sort of 20g sugary treat half way into a workout.

The optimal macros for a lean bulk is 30% protein 40% carbs and 30% fat. If your stuggling to hit those then get used to eating loads of rice, buy instant oats for your shakes get some oils to add to your shake and food.

And you can't do a serious bulk of any sort over just 2 months. You have to do at least 12 weeks of any sort of new routine to really notice anything significant.

[Andy08]

(Original post by Jonnyy)
'Clean' bulking in regard to what you eat wont make a noticeable difference to your muscle gain .

'Clean' bulking in regard to your calorific surplus and macro-nutrient ratios will make a huge difference. Realistically, even with the perfect diet, you are only going to gain a maximum of 2lbs of muscle per month, so a 500 calorie surplus (which equates to a 1lb a week weight gain) will lead to more fat gain than a 250 calorie surplus (which equates to a 0.5lb a week weight gain).

Ok, so my ratio is going to be 20pc fat, 40pc carb, 40pc protein (I assume too much proportion of carbs or fat is the definition of a dirty bulk?). My BMR calculations say that I need 2860 cal to maintain weight with moderate exercise. so to bulk I would need approx. 3110.

With this, i could hope to gain .5lb a week. Do you know what proportion roughly would be muscle and fat?

This is helping a lot!! thanks

[rattyryan]

Oh and get on myfitnesspal rather than your spreadsheet

[Jonnyy]

(Original post by Andy08)
Ok, so my ratio is going to be 20pc fat, 40pc carb, 40pc protein (I assume too much proportion of carbs or fat is the definition of a dirty bulk?). My BMR calculations say that I need 2860 cal to maintain weight with moderate exercise. so to bulk I would need approx. 3110.

With this, i could hope to gain .5lb a week. Do you know what proportion roughly would be muscle and fat?

This is helping a lot!! thanks

Its hard to say really how much muscle you will gain, although if you stick to your cals/macros you should gain mostly muscle.

Your protein % still seems very high seeing as 3110*0.4 is 1240 cals from protein, which is roughly 300g of protein.

[Andy08]

(Original post by rattyryan)
Oh and get on myfitnesspal rather than your spreadsheet

downloading myfitnesspal now I think the building the spreadsheet definitely helped me understand it all a bit better anyway

[rattyryan]

(Original post by Andy08)
Ok, so my ratio is going to be 20pc fat, 40pc carb, 40pc protein (I assume too much proportion of carbs or fat is the definition of a dirty bulk?). s

No. Dirty bulk is getting your macros from crap food like mcdonalds kfc etc. Clean bulk is where you actually care about your micronutrition. Lean bulk is when you bulk without wanting to chuck on too much body fat. Read my first post here

[Andy08]

(Original post by rattyryan)
If your bulking I feel the most important thing to utilize is your insulin sensitivity pwo. Having sugar intra and pwo will have the least negative effect on your body and more of an anabolic effect. Im cutting and i still have some sort of 20g sugary treat half way into a workout.

The optimal macros for a lean bulk is 30% protein 40% carbs and 30% fat. If your stuggling to hit those then get used to eating loads of rice, buy instant oats for your shakes get some oils to add to your shake and food.

And you can't do a serious bulk of any sort over just 2 months. You have to do at least 12 weeks of any sort of new routine to really notice anything significant.

Sorry I missed that post. Rice and oats are to be my new best friend then, got it.


Ok so i've now calculated my BMR using the Mifflin-St Jeor equation this time, which says 1825 cals. add 500 surplus a day would be 2828. This seems a little more realistic to me.

[stayce88]

(Original post by Andy08)
I'm slightly ocd about bodyfat - I really don't want to go above 13-14% so figured I'd bulk and cut in shorter intervals.

progress > vanity

[yunghamz]

(Original post by Andy08)
Sorry I missed that post. Rice and oats are to be my new best friend then, got it.


Ok so i've now calculated my BMR using the Mifflin-St Jeor equation this time, which says 1825 cals. add 500 surplus a day would be 2828. This seems a little more realistic to me.

You can't tell if a caloric surplus is realistic or not based on just looking at the numbers. You have to eat at that number and lift. Which you can tell in about 2-3 weeks and factors such as getting through heavy weights, weight gain in that period will help you decide if it's realistic or not. Assuming you are going to lift heavy, it will ultimately decide how much you need to eat, if you stall in those 3 weeks, you need to eat more. If you don't and stall later on, you need to eat more then. I'm taking in no other factors such as form/sleep etc because you said you have been lifting seriously for a year now. Since you are ocd about calories ( welcome to the club) i trust that you will stay on top of your caloric intake and adjust if needed.

Also, you rarely ate more than 80g of carbs a day? how did you survive in your first year of lifting :/.

[Andy08]

(Original post by yunghamz)
You can't tell if a caloric surplus is realistic or not based on just looking at the numbers. You have to eat at that number and lift. Which you can tell in about 2-3 weeks and factors such as getting through heavy weights, weight gain in that period will help you decide if it's realistic or not. Assuming you are going to lift heavy, it will ultimately decide how much you need to eat, if you stall in those 3 weeks, you need to eat more. If you don't and stall later on, you need to eat more then. I'm taking in no other factors such as form/sleep etc because you said you have been lifting seriously for a year now. Since you are ocd about calories ( welcome to the club) i trust that you will stay on top of your caloric intake and adjust if needed.

Also, you rarely ate more than 80g of carbs a day? how did you survive in your first year of lifting :/.

I meant more realistic in that I have been eating around 2100 calories a day and maintaining the same weight. I have to admit, in the first year progress was pretty slow but I ate a hell of a lot of meat and fish. I've hit a plateau though so hoping to see an improvement after eating so much more. Thanks for your suggestions.