[BA Philosophy]

How much attendance is required for a PhD? Is it like postgrad or undergrad?
Or do you just turn up when you want to?

I will write to my academic department to find out, but I was just thinking that if there is very little attendance required then you could almost hold a full time job whilst completing a PhD.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

[poohat]

There generally arent many compulsory classes so you can largely attend whenever you like, unless you are in a field like lab science where you are expected to be in every day. A PhD is about independent study+research rather than classroom attendance.

However there is almost no chance you could do both a full time PhD and a full time job, the fact you arent expected to show up between 9am and 5pm doesnt mean you arent expected to be doing work.

[BA Philosophy]

So in essence you spend three years, minus possible part time work, just staying at home or in the library or office doing 'research'?.

[philosophynerd]

Could you elaborate on why you want to do a PhD? Are you doing one because you want a job as a lecturer?

[nonswimmer]

(Original post by BA Philosophy)
So in essence you spend three years, minus possible part time work, just staying at home or in the library or office doing 'research'?.

You seem to be over-estimating the importance of the outcome, at the expense of the process. You might as well describe a job in a call centre as "just hanging around in a building 'answering the phone'".

For a PhD you need to generate a 80,000 to 100,000 document which answers in great detail and great depth an original research question, and shows that you have a comprehensive knowledge of the subject area you have chosen. You then have to defend this in an oral examination.

Many of the literary and critical sources you need will not be easy to get your hands on - you may have to travel to distant libraries or abroad. You will likely have to pass intermediate examinations to demonstrate that you are on the right track (eg you may have to upgrade from MPhil to PhD after the first year). All that aside, the simple administrative task of keeping all of your research well-ordered and presenting it in a coherent, appropriately formatted thesis is a nightmare.

Then, in addition, there is plenty to do to make sure that you make the most of your PhD after it is awarded. Teaching, admin, conferences, publication, etc - nothing to do with the award of a degree but everything to do with making sure you are employable afterwards. Read this for some idea of the realities (though I'll admit that some of us are slackers compared to the writer of this piece, who comes over slightly try-hard ;-) )

In short, writing a PhD thesis is a job. Don't even start to think about the outcome (woohoo, call me Dr BA Philosophy) until you are sure you properly understand the process.

[hobnob]

(Original post by BA Philosophy)
So in essence you spend three years, minus possible part time work, just staying at home or in the library or office doing 'research'?.

What else did you expect? At PhD level you don't get taught anymore. Your department might offer some seminars or lectures on research methods etc., for which attendance may or may not be compulsory, and there might be a few interesting talks or lecture series you'll want to attend, but otherwise you're on your own. Doing research is what a doctorate is all about, after all.
If you're incredibly organised, extremely disciplined and don't expect to have too much of a private life beyond your work and your thesis for the next four years (let's be realistic, you won't manage it in three alongside a full-time job), you could *technically* do your PhD alongside your job without going part-time, but chances are that you'd quickly find that things don't work out as neatly as you anticipated and you're spreading yourself too thin. I'd say it's not worth the risk.

[Cora Lindsay]

(Original post by BA Philosophy)
So in essence you spend three years, minus possible part time work, just staying at home or in the library or office doing 'research'?.

A PhD will have a minimum period of registration, which is 2.5 years in my institution for full time study, and at is doubled to 5 years for part time. In practice, the part time PhD students I have supervised have needed 6-7 years to complete, and they have all been able to use their day jobs to contribute to the PhD. That's a little different from the picture you appear to have....

[BA Philosophy]

(Original post by nonswimmer)
You seem to be over-estimating the importance of the outcome, at the expense of the process. You might as well describe a job in a call centre as "just hanging around in a building 'answering the phone'".

For a PhD you need to generate a 80,000 to 100,000 document which answers in great detail and great depth an original research question, and shows that you have a comprehensive knowledge of the subject area you have chosen. You then have to defend this in an oral examination.

Many of the literary and critical sources you need will not be easy to get your hands on - you may have to travel to distant libraries or abroad. You will likely have to pass intermediate examinations to demonstrate that you are on the right track (eg you may have to upgrade from MPhil to PhD after the first year). All that aside, the simple administrative task of keeping all of your research well-ordered and presenting it in a coherent, appropriately formatted thesis is a nightmare.

Then, in addition, there is plenty to do to make sure that you make the most of your PhD after it is awarded. Teaching, admin, conferences, publication, etc - nothing to do with the award of a degree but everything to do with making sure you are employable afterwards. Read this for some idea of the realities (though I'll admit that some of us are slackers compared to the writer of this piece, who comes over slightly try-hard ;-) )

In short, writing a PhD thesis is a job. Don't even start to think about the outcome (woohoo, call me Dr BA Philosophy) until you are sure you properly understand the process.

Thanks for the reply.

I have had a look at some PhD courses offered by UK universities and some include the potential to teach first year students and some include a post doctoral programme. So I guess there is plenty to do. I was afraid if I enrolled on a PhD I'd just be working alone in the library. But I have just realized that I could be publishing articles whilst still doing my PhD if this is allowed by my institution.

That article you posted reminded me of a short student based movie made by postgrads showing the benefits and draw backs of postgraduate study.

[BA Philosophy]

(Original post by hobnob)
What else did you expect? At PhD level you don't get taught anymore. Your department might offer some seminars or lectures on research methods etc., for which attendance may or may not be compulsory, and there might be a few interesting talks or lecture series you'll want to attend, but otherwise you're on your own. Doing research is what a doctorate is all about, after all.
If you're incredibly organised, extremely disciplined and don't expect to have too much of a private life beyond your work and your thesis for the next four years (let's be realistic, you won't manage it in three alongside a full-time job), you could *technically* do your PhD alongside your job without going part-time, but chances are that you'd quickly find that things don't work out as neatly as you anticipated and you're spreading yourself too thin. I'd say it's not worth the risk.

Thanks for the reply. It is true a full time job maybe stretching it, but a part time job should be easy to manage.

[gumball]

May I ask why you're so keen on taking employment alongside your PhD? Would this be only if you couldn't secure funding?

[hobnob]

(Original post by BA Philosophy)
Thanks for the reply. It is true a full time job maybe stretching it, but a part time job should be easy to manage.

Sure. But that wasn't what you asked.

[SnoochToTheBooch]

(Original post by BA Philosophy)
How much attendance is required for a PhD? Is it like postgrad or undergrad?
Or do you just turn up when you want to?

I will write to my academic department to find out, but I was just thinking that if there is very little attendance required then you could almost hold a full time job whilst completing a PhD.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

mine feels like a full time job. Techincally I could never come in, but I need to talk face-to-face with people to get my **** done, it would be much harder if I was flying solo the whole time. I wouldn't even consider getting a part time job, far too much to handle. It's not necessary anyway, the pay is more than I can spend.

[gumball]

(Original post by SnoochToTheBooch)
mine feels like a full time job. Techincally I could never come in, but I need to talk face-to-face with people to get my **** done, it would be much harder if I was flying solo the whole time. I wouldn't even consider getting a part time job, far too much to handle. It's not necessary anyway, the pay is more than I can spend.

That's exactly it. If the part-time job aspect isn't for additional money for them, I don't see why they would want it. If you aren't feeling moderately tired after 5 days of work (to the point where you want to do a day or two's work), I don't think you're really giving your PhD enough effort.

If the work is to get money to fund the PhD, then that's different. Maybe doing both part time would be better. It would be less stress, and you'd be able to earn enough money to live off - the very reason why you'd be doing it.

[BA Philosophy]

(Original post by gumball)
That's exactly it. If the part-time job aspect isn't for additional money for them, I don't see why they would want it. If you aren't feeling moderately tired after 5 days of work (to the point where you want to do a day or two's work, I don't think you're really giving your PhD enough effort.

If the work is to get money to fund the PhD, then that's different. Maybe doing both part time would be better. It would be less stress, and you'd be able to earn enough money to live off - the very reason why you'd be doing it.

I'm thinking of self funding a PhD would you recommend doing it part time? I've read that a part time PhD can take up to 6 years which is a very long time.

[BA Philosophy]

(Original post by hobnob)
Sure. But that wasn't what you asked.

Just wondering what did you get your PhD in?

[Of the Standard of Taste]

(Original post by philosophynerd)
Could you elaborate on why you want to do a PhD? Are you doing one because you want a job as a lecturer?

I wouldn't mind be a lecturer but if I could do anything else with the PhD, for instance, a reader or a researcher for a company I wouldn't mind.

[Ghost6]

(Original post by BA Philosophy)
So in essence you spend three years, minus possible part time work, just staying at home or in the library or office doing 'research'?.

Essentially, yes, once you have fulfilled your coursework requirements (if any at some UK schools). But you will or should be working as a TA or RA during your studies, in order to gain teaching and research experience and make you more employable when you graduate. (Some departments even require students to serve as TA to as a condition to graduation.)

Also, doing "research" is not as easy as it seems, at least in the sciences. You will need active advice and help from your supervisor, who you will in principle meet frequently to discuss your progress and the issues you face. It will take considerable effort to essentially learn about every high-impact contribution that has been made to your field since its beginning and give a satisfactory answer to a current research problem. At the end of your PhD, in addition to your thesis, you should have a comprehensive knowledge of your subject area and enough (carefully typeset) material to publish a (or several) books and should be able to teach any class from undergraduate to graduate levels in your subject.

Doing all of this, including the TA work, is no less than a full time job and if you don't treat it as such you will not graduate.

[beepbeeprichie]

This is academic philosophy. No-one gives a **** if you turn up or not!

[Klix88]

I've been at a university where they had PhD students who were carrying out field research abroad. They used to come to campus once a term for meetings/seminars etc, but most of their supervision was carried out by email or Skype. The life of a PhD candidate is pretty solitary and there are some types of research where your "parent" university will expect you to be in regular contact with progress updates, but won't expect to see your face around that much.

In my field, even courses at Masters level are nothing like undergraduate ones and require you to carry out your own research under direction. There are no formal lectures in the same "listen and shut up" format as my undergrad ones. You need to be very motivated and independent to study past Masters level.

I've also seen the results of trying to do a full-time PhD whilst working (economic necessity after planned funding collapsed). Not pretty and a near breakdown - personally I wouldn't try it. As has been said above, if you have the energy for paid work at the end of a full-time PhD week, then you need to check whether you're doing it right.

[Observatory]

(Original post by Ghost6)
Essentially, yes, once you have fulfilled your coursework requirements (if any at some UK schools). But you will or should be working as a TA or RA during your studies, in order to gain teaching and research experience and make you more employable when you graduate. (Some departments even require students to serve as TA to as a condition to graduation.)

Sorry for semi-gravedig, but reading through a lot of threads on this forum, you make a huge number of posts with seemingly no regard for the .co.uk in the site URL. Either you don't know or don't care that >90% of people are British and studying or intending to study in Britain, or don't realise there are any differences with the US system, but you have been giving quite a bit of "good" advice for people in the US that makes absolutely no sense in Britain.

Here, for instance, TA/RA work is neither important nor even necessarily common. In the US it's a vital part of getting funding for most people, but here PhD stipends are paid gratis, your research work is your PhD, and you will rarely see courses being taught by students at good universities. You might get low single digit 000s doing lab demonstrating or something like that, but you can't live on it and it's essentially optional.