[Captain Jack]

Last night TSR's CEO, ChrisN, was having a twitter chat with a teacher, Andrew Old, who has views about the level of student voice in the education system. Andrew said:

I'm not suggesting we ignore them [students]. I'm suggesting we remember who has the responsibility for their interests here.

But that the UK should...

Get rid of student council; student involvement in interview process, and any surveys in which students judge teachers.

We were interested in what students thought about this?

[megan.c]

Up to GCSEs I can understand younger pupils not necessarily being given a say as they may not be looking at the long time, but for GCSEs, Further and certainly Higher education the students are making the conscious decision to be there and are more than capable and entitled to have a say in the way their education (which in the case of University, they are paying for) is delivered.

I can understand the need for input from officials and the government, but to not take on the views of those experiencing education seems illogical. The best people to know what is relevant and effecting students in the present are those who are dealing with these issues currently, and even in the case of secondary schools, which the students may have little choice over where they go, feedback on how they enjoy their place of education should be highly valued.

The best way to improve something is to listen to those who are affected by it, not by making decisions as, essentially, outsiders.

[Captain Jack]

(Original post by megan.c)
Up to GCSEs I can understand younger pupils not necessarily being given a say as they may not be looking at the long time, but for GCSEs, Further and certainly Higher education the students are making the conscious decision to be there and are more than capable and entitled to have a say in the way their education (which in the case of University, they are paying for) is delivered.

I can understand the need for input from officials and the government, but to not take on the views of those experiencing education seems illogical. The best people to know what is relevant and effecting students in the present are those who are dealing with these issues currently, and even in the case of secondary schools, which the students may have little choice over where they go, feedback on how they enjoy their place of education should be highly valued.

The best way to improve something is to listen to those who are affected by it, not by making decisions as, essentially, outsiders.

Thanks Megan. I'd be really interested in other views too - there's a big debate raging on Twitter at the moment and it's really important students express themselves on this subject too.

[whyumadtho]

Ad hominem. Their opinion is no less important simply because they are students; it is important to account for a range of different perspectives on an issue to ensure the education system is as productive as possible. How will they gauge the full effectiveness of their practices without eliciting the views of those who are subject to them? I fail to understand how a single method of data acquisition can be seen to be superior to multiple forms of data acquisition used conjointly.

[ChrisN]

I'd really like to know what issues students feel they should have views heard on, and what student experiences of student councils and other ways of giving their views are.

To students ask for silly things? Are the wrong people voicing their views? Should schools take on board student views? Do they ? Does the system work? How should it change? Or is it a waste of time that should be scrapped?

What do you reckon?

[The Polymath]

(Original post by ChrisN)
I'd really like to know what issues students feel they should have views heard on, and what student experiences of student councils and other ways of giving their views are.

To students ask for silly things? Are the wrong people voicing their views? Should schools take on board student views? Do they ? Does the system work? How should it change? Or is it a waste of time that should be scrapped?

What do you reckon?

(Original post by Captain Jack)
Last night TSR's CEO, ChrisN, was having a twitter chat with a teacher, Andrew Old, who has views about the level of student voice in the education system. Andrew said:



But that the UK should...



We were interested in what students thought about this?

Well, I'm ...*fanfare* ... Deputy Chairman of my =school council, which we also call the Student Voice! lol I thought this thread was from my school.

We don't seem to be getting a huge say in how the school is run, however, for example the school had a test trial in year 7 for iPads for students. The majority of students think it's a waste of money and a really bad idea but they're going ahead with it anyway. I think particularly as sixth formers (now the most senior boys in the school as we head into upper sixth) they should have listened to us. We've been through 6 years of education at that school (longer than most teachers have stayed) and know exactly what's gone wrong and where, and no studious student I know supports the iPad idea.

[ChrisN]

(Original post by Junaid96)
Well, I'm ...*fanfare* ... Deputy Chairman of my =school council, which we also call the Student Voice! lol I thought this thread was from my school.

We don't seem to be getting a huge say in how the school is run, however, for example the school had a test trial in year 7 for iPads for students. The majority of students think it's a waste of money and a really bad idea but they're going ahead with it anyway. I think particularly as sixth formers (now the most senior boys in the school as we head into upper sixth) they should have listened to us. We've been through 6 years of education at that school (longer than most teachers have stayed) and know exactly what's gone wrong and where, and no studious student I know supports the iPad idea.

To me a great example of how positive contributions from students could help schools. It's not just immature students whining about silly things as the Twitter debate would suggest.

I'd like to hear lots more thoughts and experiences on this from people.

[hamijack]

It's not like they listen to what we say in student council's anyway so imo it doesn't really matter if they take away student voice or not.

[TenOfThem]

Are you only interested in student views only I am a teacher and my views are

• Student interview panels are an excellent part of the process, some schools do not use them well but my experience has always been excellent
• Students observing lessons as part of a coaching scenario can provide invaluable feedback
• Students thoughts on uniform, times of the school day, curriculum, and many other major decisions in schools give an alternative perspective that can be a great help in the decision making process
• The use of surveys that give students the chance to coment on a wide variety of issues from the quality of marking through the quality of canteen food gives school leadership teams useful information

We all know students that will abuse the opportunity to contribute but they are far outnumbered by those who simply want a good experience in school

[Strawberrycayk]

(Original post by megan.c)
Up to GCSEs I can understand younger pupils not necessarily being given a say as they may not be looking at the long time, but for GCSEs, Further and certainly Higher education the students are making the conscious decision to be there and are more than capable and entitled to have a say in the way their education (which in the case of University, they are paying for) is delivered.

I can understand the need for input from officials and the government, but to not take on the views of those experiencing education seems illogical. The best people to know what is relevant and effecting students in the present are those who are dealing with these issues currently, and even in the case of secondary schools, which the students may have little choice over where they go, feedback on how they enjoy their place of education should be highly valued.

The best way to improve something is to listen to those who are affected by it, not by making decisions as, essentially, outsiders.

(Original post by TenOfThem)
Are you only interested in student views only I am a teacher and my views are

• Student interview panels are an excellent part of the process, some schools do not use them well but my experience has always been excellent
• Students observing lessons as part of a coaching scenario can provide invaluable feedback
• Students thoughts on uniform, times of the school day, curriculum, and many other major decisions in schools give an alternative perspective that can be a great help in the decision making process
• The use of surveys that give students the chance to coment on a wide variety of issues from the quality of marking through the quality of canteen food gives school leadership teams useful information

We all know students that will abuse the opportunity to contribute but they are far outnumbered by those who simply want a good experience in school

I agree with the above.

Including the students and their opinions regarding the school would make them more enthusiastic about the place, no one wants to be somewhere where their opinions aren't considered important. Personally I'd feel like my rights to have a say regarding my education were being taken away.

[ChrisN]

(Original post by TenOfThem)
Are you only interested in student views only I am a teacher and my views are

• Student interview panels are an excellent part of the process, some schools do not use them well but my experience has always been excellent
• Students observing lessons as part of a coaching scenario can provide invaluable feedback
• Students thoughts on uniform, times of the school day, curriculum, and many other major decisions in schools give an alternative perspective that can be a great help in the decision making process
• The use of surveys that give students the chance to coment on a wide variety of issues from the quality of marking through the quality of canteen food gives school leadership teams useful information

We all know students that will abuse the opportunity to contribute but they are far outnumbered by those who simply want a good experience in school

Thanks. I'd like to hear all views from everyone.

[Moscardini]

The students are often the ones being affected by the changes, it's fair they should be heard and have their chance to appeal against something that could affect their future

[brendonbackflip]

Students should be MORE involved imo (basing on how my school treated student opinions anyway) Obviously teachers don't have to take everything students suggest seriously, because there will be some things that just can't be done. However, particually if lots of students are asking for a particular thing, there should be an explanation as to why it can't be done. Students and teachers could then discuss a sort of midway ideal, or the students could just understand its not going to happen (i.e horse riding lessons in P.E - something someone honestly suggested once :/)

Considering the pupils are the ones benifitting from whatever changes are made to schools, their opinions should definately be considered. My school said they listen to student voices, but 9/10 times, any decent suggestions/complaints were ignored. I don't think they try hard enough to get students involved really.

[Xotol]

I'm not sure whether this is representative of all schools, but based on the two secondary schools I have been to...

Get rid of student council; student involvement in interview process, and any surveys in which students judge teachers.

The first and third suggestions don't really matter (not sure about the interview process). Sure, we get nominations for student councils and everything, but I have to wonder how much the teachers and governing bodies actually listen to any suggestions made. After all, students don't know about the financial situation or the time and effort taken if new measures are implemented, and the teachers do seem dismissive a lot of the time. I don't know how it all plays out, but I get the feeling that direct student opinions aren't major factors in the decisions teachers make.

[Darkphilosopher]

If only I could have named and shamed one of my physics teachers in the leavers survey...

Granted he was very knowledgeable of the subject, but nobody in the class learned anything because he had no control over the class and was just insufferably boring

[fire2burn]

My old school used to get pupils involved with the hiring process of teachers, pupils would be asked their views on the candidates being trialled. Worked out quite well, I remember one instance where a prospective teacher was amazing on paper (very highly qualified in all areas, lots of industry experience, etc) but when it actually came to down to it she couldn't teach for toffee. She had no real people skills, wasn't particularly inspiring and people would simply switch off and ignore her. The other candidate had less experience and wasn't as highly qualified but had vastly superior skills in the classroom, he could grab everyone's attention and had the patience to sit down and explain everything thoroughly taking his time to use different angles of approach when pupils didn't understand a certain concept. The school took the pupils views on board and hired the second candidate despite him having a weaker CV qualifications wise. The school also listened in other areas such as changing the timetable from 45 minute lessons to hourly lessons, uniform policy, funding for extra curricular activities, etc. It helped students to feel engaged and gave them a sense of pride and responsibility in the school.

I suspect the true thinking behind removing the student voice is that weak teachers are afraid of student criticism, and rather than trying to up their game and develop their skills they simply want to quash any criticism regardless of how valid it may be. I don't believe that any profession/business/organisation should be immune from criticism or development from the people it is there to serve. In any case if teachers are allowed lobbying bodies and unions so should students. If teachers want to remove the voice from students, maybe the fair approach is to remove their voice as well and ban all union membership? See how long it takes for them to feel disenfranchised and dejected, perhaps only then they will understand why silencing opinions results in discontent and poor motivation.

[chanizst]

(Original post by Captain Jack)
Last night TSR's CEO, ChrisN, was having a twitter chat with a teacher, Andrew Old, who has views about the level of student voice in the education system. Andrew said:



But that the UK should...



We were interested in what students thought about this?

In my opinions, students voice should b heard n valued to a certain extent. They r affected by the education system the most so i can't c y any of this importance shud b ignored. A poll can b made to ask them abt the effectiveness of the education as well as the improvements to b made. This cud make them more motivated in wt they're studying n develop a sense of belonging in schools once their views r taken. If the student council is to be removed then the students will defo lose their panel to hv a say n fight for their peers' welfare, rights etc.

Some may afraid of the judgements frm students n think not listening to them wud make the whole thing easier. Actually this is worsening the situation by making the education counterproductive, its actually a waste of the students, teachers time n also the taxpayers money. Opinions shud b heard frm all parties when it comes to doing them good.

[JamalAhmed]

If I really had a voice in my school, I will change English intervention (extra after school lesson) to another day because English 3 times in one day is too much for any student.

I will also want year 7/8 students to leave lessons 2/3 minutes before the rest of the school so the stairs do not get overcrowded thus there will be less chance of injury.

But I don't have a voice, and the teachers do not use the stairs so they don't know about this problem, and this problem will not be heard of.

[JamalAhmed]

(Original post by chanizst)
In my opinions, students voice should b heard n valued to a certain extent. They r affected by the education system the most so i can't c y any of this importance shud b ignored. A poll can b made to ask them abt the effectiveness of the education as well as the improvements to b made. This cud make them more motivated in wt they're studying n develop a sense of belonging in schools once their views r taken. If the student council is to be removed then the students will defo lose their panel to hv a say n fight for their peers' welfare, rights etc.

Some may afraid of the judgements frm students n think not listening to them wud make the whole thing easier. Actually this is worsening the situation by making the education counterproductive, its actually a waste of the students, teachers time n also the taxpayers money. Opinions shud b heard frm all parties when it comes to doing them good.

Don't abbreviate! Get's me angry and will get a lot of other people angry too.

[JamalAhmed]

(Original post by fire2burn)
My old school used to get pupils involved with the hiring process of teachers, pupils would be asked their views on the candidates being trialled. Worked out quite well, I remember one instance where a prospective teacher was amazing on paper (very highly qualified in all areas, lots of industry experience, etc) but when it actually came to down to it she couldn't teach for toffee. She had no real people skills, wasn't particularly inspiring and people would simply switch off and ignore her. The other candidate had less experience and wasn't as highly qualified but had vastly superior skills in the classroom, he could grab everyone's attention and had the patience to sit down and explain everything thoroughly taking his time to use different angles of approach when pupils didn't understand a certain concept. The school took the pupils views on board and hired the second candidate despite him having a weaker CV qualifications wise. The school also listened in other areas such as changing the timetable from 45 minute lessons to hourly lessons, uniform policy, funding for extra curricular activities, etc. It helped students to feel engaged and gave them a sense of pride and responsibility in the school.

I suspect the true thinking behind removing the student voice is that weak teachers are afraid of student criticism, and rather than trying to up their game and develop their skills they simply want to quash any criticism regardless of how valid it may be. I don't believe that any profession/business/organisation should be immune from criticism or development from the people it is there to serve. In any case if teachers are allowed lobbying bodies and unions so should students. If teachers want to remove the voice from students, maybe the fair approach is to remove their voice as well and ban all union membership? See how long it takes for them to feel disenfranchised and dejected, perhaps only then they will understand why silencing opinions results in discontent and poor motivation.

But there is the chance that some students will get teachers based on their looks, no?