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Regular voting is the bedrock of a free society.
This argument is stupid. Just because each individual vote is negligible, doesn't mean that voting is pointless - it's a joint effort of hundreds of people.
I mean, proportional representation is still better, but still.
I mean, proportional representation is still better, but still.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by revron77
Realistically your vote means ****. The chances of one vote changing the course of an election is so small that its irrational to think your piece of paper holds any true value. If you have voted, your action today was meaningless in making any true difference to this world.
The only time your voting will ever hold any real value is if you're smart enough to convince another group of fools to follow you down to the polling station and vote the same as you. Thats the only time that you're action as a human being will have any true effect in democracy.
The only time your voting will ever hold any real value is if you're smart enough to convince another group of fools to follow you down to the polling station and vote the same as you. Thats the only time that you're action as a human being will have any true effect in democracy.
Not really. You vote for whatever you want, and everyone else does, and whatever the most people want wins. That's exactly how it's meant to work.
Voting is stupid because most of the people voting don't even do any research into what they're voting for and are either incapable of unwilling to think critically.
I completely agree with you revron77. It's a stupid system - make do at best really.
Given that the results of these elections will be based on the proportional representation system, voting is definitely worth it. The number of candidates elected for a certain party literally depends on the proportion of votes the party wins, so every vote counts.
When it comes to the General elections, the argument that voting is pointless is stronger. FPTP naturally trends towards a competition between two parties, and the spoiler effect leads to all sorts of tactical voting for parties that a majority doesn't even want in power. Within many constituencies, the demographics mean that one party is always going to win a majority. If you were a Conservative supporter in Doncaster, for example, voting would do little more than potentially help the career of the member of the party who's standing, if (s)he didn't lose by too much, because Labour are always gong to win.
When it comes to the General elections, the argument that voting is pointless is stronger. FPTP naturally trends towards a competition between two parties, and the spoiler effect leads to all sorts of tactical voting for parties that a majority doesn't even want in power. Within many constituencies, the demographics mean that one party is always going to win a majority. If you were a Conservative supporter in Doncaster, for example, voting would do little more than potentially help the career of the member of the party who's standing, if (s)he didn't lose by too much, because Labour are always gong to win.
(edited 9 years ago)
Democracy has many, many faults and it has never been held up (maybe apart from in 'murica) to be the perfect system. Likewise, dictatorships provide stability (or stagnation, you choose).
Ultimately, power is power, it doesn't really matter how someone gains it, the only thing that matters is that they have it. I would rather have my minuscule say than not at all, though.
Ultimately, power is power, it doesn't really matter how someone gains it, the only thing that matters is that they have it. I would rather have my minuscule say than not at all, though.
That just suggests that all the fighting efforts of many to obtain the right to vote was In vain. Emily Pankhurst didn't throw herself under the horse for u to be a lil negative cow
(edited 9 years ago)
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (Winston Churchill)
I can see why you would think that with out First Past the Post system but I'd much much rather have our system than one in probably 90% of other nations. I'd that ours is actually better than the USA's as theirs relies for more on money & "pork barrel politics" than ours.
I can see why you would think that with out First Past the Post system but I'd much much rather have our system than one in probably 90% of other nations. I'd that ours is actually better than the USA's as theirs relies for more on money & "pork barrel politics" than ours.
Its all a scam to make money for Simon Cowell.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Its all a scam to make money for Simon Cowell.
It'd be so much more exciting in that format
Original post by revron77
Right now many of us will have went to the polling station putting in our vote to whatever god for shaken political party has convinced us that they have the answers for a better tomorrow.
Realistically your vote means ****. The chances of one vote changing the course of an election is so small that its irrational to think your piece of paper holds any true value. If you have voted, your action today was meaningless in making any true difference to this world.
Yeah, your one vote probably won't change much, but if you don't cast it you have no influence at all. Individual votes aren't supposed to count for much, but it is better to have a little influence than none at all.
The only time your voting will ever hold any real value is if you're smart enough to convince another group of fools to follow you down to the polling station and vote the same as you. Thats the only time that you're action as a human being will have any true effect in democracy.
So get campaigning! Stop whining about how you have "no influence" and go out and exert some.
Even with this, if you take the time to really do research behind your vote, you have another 10 or 20 people that are not informed overruling your vote because of ridiculous reasons (One for example comes from a friend I have on Facebook who votes in elections based on whos hottest..... mmmm democracy is great isn't folks? She has the same value of vote as you do)
Granted this is a problem with democracy, but you're not goign to solve it whining and whinging on the internet. Again, go out there and educate people about why you're voting for who you're going to vote for!
In addition to all this: Can you really trust your candidate? I mean lets be honest, can you trust someone who openly admits they want to have power! Because thats what politics is, its all about power and depending on where you are at the food chain... also money. But really at the end of the day, most of our votes will be going into morally bankrupt politicians that will say anything to hold office, that will even bankrupt the nation with debt just to secure votes. I myself have personally seen this working in a political office, I've seen local councilors openly lie on issues to stir up fear among concerned residents as they laugh in the background at peoples ignorance for buying their crap.
You're being unfair to a lot of politicians, sure a bunch of them may be corrupt, power hungry fools, but the majority of them are trying to change the country for the better. Whatever their interpretation of that is.
So to end my rant, voting is a meaningless and stupid action... but I suppose thats the best system we have for now.
As George Carlin once stated while explaining democracy "Garbage goes in, garbage goes out"
Realistically your vote means ****. The chances of one vote changing the course of an election is so small that its irrational to think your piece of paper holds any true value. If you have voted, your action today was meaningless in making any true difference to this world.
Yeah, your one vote probably won't change much, but if you don't cast it you have no influence at all. Individual votes aren't supposed to count for much, but it is better to have a little influence than none at all.
The only time your voting will ever hold any real value is if you're smart enough to convince another group of fools to follow you down to the polling station and vote the same as you. Thats the only time that you're action as a human being will have any true effect in democracy.
So get campaigning! Stop whining about how you have "no influence" and go out and exert some.
Even with this, if you take the time to really do research behind your vote, you have another 10 or 20 people that are not informed overruling your vote because of ridiculous reasons (One for example comes from a friend I have on Facebook who votes in elections based on whos hottest..... mmmm democracy is great isn't folks? She has the same value of vote as you do)
Granted this is a problem with democracy, but you're not goign to solve it whining and whinging on the internet. Again, go out there and educate people about why you're voting for who you're going to vote for!
In addition to all this: Can you really trust your candidate? I mean lets be honest, can you trust someone who openly admits they want to have power! Because thats what politics is, its all about power and depending on where you are at the food chain... also money. But really at the end of the day, most of our votes will be going into morally bankrupt politicians that will say anything to hold office, that will even bankrupt the nation with debt just to secure votes. I myself have personally seen this working in a political office, I've seen local councilors openly lie on issues to stir up fear among concerned residents as they laugh in the background at peoples ignorance for buying their crap.
You're being unfair to a lot of politicians, sure a bunch of them may be corrupt, power hungry fools, but the majority of them are trying to change the country for the better. Whatever their interpretation of that is.
So to end my rant, voting is a meaningless and stupid action... but I suppose thats the best system we have for now.
As George Carlin once stated while explaining democracy "Garbage goes in, garbage goes out"
See bolded bits.
Also "god for shaken"?
Original post by ssupernova
It'd be so much more exciting in that format
"Well judges, you've got to send one of David or Nick home, Louis can I have your choice please?"
"I can't believe these guys are in the bottom two, both of you are stars in your own right, it's such a hard decision, but I can only go for what I've seen today, the one who I think has most potential for the future is Nick, so I'm going to have to send David home"
AUDIENCE
Original post by MagicNMedicine
"Well judges, you've got to send one of David or Nick home, Louis can I have your choice please?"
"I can't believe these guys are in the bottom two, both of you are stars in your own right, it's such a hard decision, but I can only go for what I've seen today, the one who I think has most potential for the future is Nick, so I'm going to have to send David home"
AUDIENCE
"I can't believe these guys are in the bottom two, both of you are stars in your own right, it's such a hard decision, but I can only go for what I've seen today, the one who I think has most potential for the future is Nick, so I'm going to have to send David home"
AUDIENCE
Can cut the bloody atmosphere with a knife , but Remember when (in like 2006) when more people voted in big brother eviction night than the general election ? I reckon xfactor draws in more votes and obviously that's down the the format
Democracy does have some flaws, but it's a better system than the alternatives. Saying this, I still agree with you OP - voting these days is stupid. We're in a corporatocracy. Democracy is broken because voting is almost entirely ineffectual. More important than merely allowing people to vote, is to have free public discourse and to have a flexible, caring government which evolves its policies and ideas to suit the needs of the people. This has been totally demolished with the totalitarian culture brought on by the corporate media and academic institutions, and the purchasing of government by corporations.
The state, in its current form, is a tool for businesses to further their interests. A friend told me "That's pessimisstic, there is still law and order...", haha. Law and order? That's not for our benefit, that's there to protect private property for big business, the product of using the state to steal large amounts of resources from common people. Look at the militarisation of the police. Look at how they beat up protesters. There's so much more, but all I'll say is the government does not look to increase wellbeing, happiness and comfort in it's citizens, the job it's supposed to do. So I won't degrade myself by taking part in the voting charade.
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
The state, in its current form, is a tool for businesses to further their interests. A friend told me "That's pessimisstic, there is still law and order...", haha. Law and order? That's not for our benefit, that's there to protect private property for big business, the product of using the state to steal large amounts of resources from common people. Look at the militarisation of the police. Look at how they beat up protesters. There's so much more, but all I'll say is the government does not look to increase wellbeing, happiness and comfort in it's citizens, the job it's supposed to do. So I won't degrade myself by taking part in the voting charade.
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by revron77
Right now many of us will have went to the polling station putting in our vote to whatever god for shaken political party has convinced us that they have the answers for a better tomorrow.
Realistically your vote means ****. The chances of one vote changing the course of an election is so small that its irrational to think your piece of paper holds any true value. If you have voted, your action today was meaningless in making any true difference to this world.
The only time your voting will ever hold any real value is if you're smart enough to convince another group of fools to follow you down to the polling station and vote the same as you. Thats the only time that you're action as a human being will have any true effect in democracy.
Even with this, if you take the time to really do research behind your vote, you have another 10 or 20 people that are not informed overruling your vote because of ridiculous reasons (One for example comes from a friend I have on Facebook who votes in elections based on whos hottest..... mmmm democracy is great isn't folks? She has the same value of vote as you do)
In addition to all this: Can you really trust your candidate? I mean lets be honest, can you trust someone who openly admits they want to have power! Because thats what politics is, its all about power and depending on where you are at the food chain... also money. But really at the end of the day, most of our votes will be going into morally bankrupt politicians that will say anything to hold office, that will even bankrupt the nation with debt just to secure votes. I myself have personally seen this working in a political office, I've seen local councilors openly lie on issues to stir up fear among concerned residents as they laugh in the background at peoples ignorance for buying their crap.
So to end my rant, voting is a meaningless and stupid action... but I suppose thats the best system we have for now.
As George Carlin once stated while explaining democracy "Garbage goes in, garbage goes out"
Realistically your vote means ****. The chances of one vote changing the course of an election is so small that its irrational to think your piece of paper holds any true value. If you have voted, your action today was meaningless in making any true difference to this world.
The only time your voting will ever hold any real value is if you're smart enough to convince another group of fools to follow you down to the polling station and vote the same as you. Thats the only time that you're action as a human being will have any true effect in democracy.
Even with this, if you take the time to really do research behind your vote, you have another 10 or 20 people that are not informed overruling your vote because of ridiculous reasons (One for example comes from a friend I have on Facebook who votes in elections based on whos hottest..... mmmm democracy is great isn't folks? She has the same value of vote as you do)
In addition to all this: Can you really trust your candidate? I mean lets be honest, can you trust someone who openly admits they want to have power! Because thats what politics is, its all about power and depending on where you are at the food chain... also money. But really at the end of the day, most of our votes will be going into morally bankrupt politicians that will say anything to hold office, that will even bankrupt the nation with debt just to secure votes. I myself have personally seen this working in a political office, I've seen local councilors openly lie on issues to stir up fear among concerned residents as they laugh in the background at peoples ignorance for buying their crap.
So to end my rant, voting is a meaningless and stupid action... but I suppose thats the best system we have for now.
As George Carlin once stated while explaining democracy "Garbage goes in, garbage goes out"
Managed to convince several people to vote for UKIP and 3 people to even join UKIP. My influence is spreading.
dont vote dont complain.
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