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TSR Med Students' Society Part V

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Original post by Nottie
How much did you guys studied in your first year??


It is more of a qualitative question. Study as much as YOU think you need to study.

Don't be distracted by people that say they spend all day in the library. And equally those that say they never study at all.

Do what you think is comfortable. And remember you can't possibly know everything.

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Original post by Becca-Sarah
BMA throwing a hissy fit and walking out on negotiations is hardly helping us towards a better contract though.


Quite a few branch of practice committees are involved in talking about this and it isn't the case of them throwing a hissy fit, but instead the government's point blank refusal to make any concessions to ridiculous changes. I suppose the thinking was there's only so long you can bang your head on a brick wall before you get a concussion, so remaining in the negotiations when no negotiation is actually taking place would mean the only option was to concede. I don't fancy working 10 hours on a Sunday with only a 30 minute break... as well as not being allowed to drink hot drinks.

Can you imagine the government forcing any other profession to work like that? Imagine what would happen to the Tube if they said Tube drivers had to work like that?!?
Original post by Beska
Quite a few branch of practice committees are involved in talking about this and it isn't the case of them throwing a hissy fit, but instead the government's point blank refusal to make any concessions to ridiculous changes. I suppose the thinking was there's only so long you can bang your head on a brick wall before you get a concussion, so remaining in the negotiations when no negotiation is actually taking place would mean the only option was to concede. I don't fancy working 10 hours on a Sunday with only a 30 minute break... as well as not being allowed to drink hot drinks.

Can you imagine the government forcing any other profession to work like that? Imagine what would happen to the Tube if they said Tube drivers had to work like that?!?


The thing I don't get about the drinks, and to a large degree the contract talks, is do the government (and a proportion of the general population) forget that medical staff are humans?! They wouldn't tolerate these things, why should medical staff put up with this just because we've chosen this career. All staff (doctors, nurses, hca etc) all make daily sacrifices to help others but professionally get treated like s&@* for doing it.

Really winds me up.

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Original post by Beska
Quite a few branch of practice committees are involved in talking about this and it isn't the case of them throwing a hissy fit, but instead the government's point blank refusal to make any concessions to ridiculous changes. I suppose the thinking was there's only so long you can bang your head on a brick wall before you get a concussion, so remaining in the negotiations when no negotiation is actually taking place would mean the only option was to concede. I don't fancy working 10 hours on a Sunday with only a 30 minute break... as well as not being allowed to drink hot drinks.

Can you imagine the government forcing any other profession to work like that? Imagine what would happen to the Tube if they said Tube drivers had to work like that?!?


^^agree with this and a half.

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Original post by ForestCat
The thing I don't get about the drinks, and to a large degree the contract talks, is do the government (and a proportion of the general population) forget that medical staff are humans?! They wouldn't tolerate these things, why should medical staff put up with this just because we've chosen this career. All staff (doctors, nurses, hca etc) all make daily sacrifices to help others but professionally get treated like s&@* for doing it.

Really winds me up.

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This is just my opinion but it's probably because the NHS is state-funded so they can do what they want. Realistically, they could push through with this contract they are wanting to e.g. making 7am - 10pm every day of the week a 'normal working day', cutting pay during those hours, not allowing juniors to pick their days off plus lots of changes that make careers in emergency medicine/academic med less appealing... and what could we do about it? Write strongly worded letters to The Times? Grumble about it during our 30min daily break?
Original post by Newtothis83
Lol. If you are serious PM me.

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Only half joking.

Have fancied it for a while (well, since I was 11 and first went over there) but not sure I'd ever be brave enough to just up sticks and leave.
Original post by crazylemon
No, hence writing to MPs to represent myself.

We don't know how hard the BMA tried to budge them on those issues already though. So they may not be being totally useless (although the strike which never was for pensions was a bad idea and weakened our position massively)

That was a massive disaster... Though because so few doctors took part, I doubt many in the public will even recall such an event.

Original post by hopes
How beneficial is it to intercalate if you genuinely have no idea what you want to do in the future? Our medical school only allow the top 25% to intercalate with any vacancies amongst the top quartile being available on a competitive basis for the second quartile. So I don't know if its worth me busting my ass to try and come top quartile if I'm not even sure I really want to intercalate...


I'd say it's definitely worth it. I think BSc year teaches you have to think critically and hopefully you get to pick a project you can really get immersed into. Yes, there are the bonuses of extra points etc. But I genuinely think the skills (not necessarily knowledge learnt on XYZ BSc) help a lot. It also gives you exposure to research in a non-pressured environment where you don't have to deliver substantial findings. Speaking to several academic clinical fellows and others taking a year off for a masters, they are under great pressure get 'findings' - positive or negative.
And depending on the BSc you do and how your previous years are, it can potentially be a lighter timetable allowing you to be more of a student. However, having said that, my BSc had an unanticipated amount of coursework which kept my busy despite the low contact hours - so it wasn't the 'holiday' year I had envisaged.

Original post by ForestCat
The thing I don't get about the drinks, and to a large degree the contract talks, is do the government (and a proportion of the general population) forget that medical staff are humans?! They wouldn't tolerate these things, why should medical staff put up with this just because we've chosen this career. All staff (doctors, nurses, hca etc) all make daily sacrifices to help others but professionally get treated like s&@* for doing it.

Really winds me up.

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This. So much! The comments some people throw creating a false dichotomy by saying "And they supposedly went in with a sense of vocation..." or "what's happened to the doctors wanting to do be doctors because they care about others?..." Genuinely am lost for words as to how to coherently respond to such people.

Definitely think Beska made a good point about asking what would happen if other professions were asked the same. Certainly a pertinent point.
I do personally think some of the BMA's requests are very ambitious, which is of course good, but the most important ones to hone in on are the 8am-10pm days and EWTD compliance. I know of a few F1s who prior to starting their posts were asked their hospitals to sign a form saying they're okay with being scheduled a rota that's outside the EWTD's requirements - coupling that with the fact that if they didn't sign it, they're unlikely to be allocated extra cover shifts should they want them. I'm quite sure the two could be separated...
So we have a systematic media hate campaign against doctors, an entitled public with unreasonable expectations and self-destructive lifestyles and a government who uses the NHS as a political chewtoy while treating junior doctors like placid workhorses.

Could someone remind me why we've opted for this career that plunges us into debt, consumes the best years of our lives with training for a shrinking pay packet and ever-eroding work conditions?

If your average little-old-lady-patient wasn't so lovely, I probably would have called this a mug's game before I even started.
agree with all the posts above

Original post by purplefrog
This. So much! The comments some people throw creating a false dichotomy by saying "And they supposedly went in with a sense of vocation..." or "what's happened to the doctors wanting to do be doctors because they care about others?..." Genuinely am lost for words as to how to coherently respond to such people.


It is a form of emotional blackmail.
Original post by pgreg1
rather bemusing comment considering you weren't at the negotiations, does it not anger you how theyre trying to screw junior doctors over (assuming you have actually read the link of course)? government want junior doctors only 30 mins break in a 10 hour shift, they want employers to dictate when a junior doctor can take annual leave ... it is madness


My job already comes with fixed annual leave, and tomorrow & Sunday I'm working 14 hour shifts (with unsurprisingly non-EWTD-compliant time off inbetween) in which I don't anticipate having what any other working person would term a 30 min break (ie protected half hour period in which I cannot be called to do work). Yes I'd much prefer that this wasn't the case, but let's not make out that the government are proposing things that are beyond what already occurs.
Original post by Becca-Sarah
My job already comes with fixed annual leave, and tomorrow & Sunday I'm working 14 hour shifts (with unsurprisingly non-EWTD-compliant time off inbetween) in which I don't anticipate having what any other working person would term a 30 min break (ie protected half hour period in which I cannot be called to do work). Yes I'd much prefer that this wasn't the case, but let's not make out that the government are proposing things that are beyond what already occurs.


But much of the point is that it shouldn't be happening.

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Original post by crazylemon
We can lobby our MPs. We can show the BMA we agree with them and are on board with what they are trying to do. We can fight this. We might lose in the end, but it may at least ameliorate the damage. We can show that we won't let them keep doing this by not just rolling over. In short we have to FIGHT.

Or just all leave...


I agree with what you're saying...but can I just ask (purely out of nosiness) is this not a rather odd position for you to be taking as a member of the Liberterian Party?
Original post by crazylemon
I don't care as I patently made clear to the GP lead today for my session. I got 2 of the other 6 medics there to seriously think about escape plans/trying to stop this too.

She wasn't particularly enamoured when asking for a solution to the problems of primary care when I said, 'emigrate' either...

That's because it's not a solution.
Original post by Becca-Sarah
My job already comes with fixed annual leave, and tomorrow & Sunday I'm working 14 hour shifts (with unsurprisingly non-EWTD-compliant time off inbetween) in which I don't anticipate having what any other working person would term a 30 min break (ie protected half hour period in which I cannot be called to do work). Yes I'd much prefer that this wasn't the case, but let's not make out that the government are proposing things that are beyond what already occurs.


well good for you then. if you feel smug about yourself because you are a valiant doctor who works 14 hours non-stop then that's great. personally im not happy about it, I wouldn't stand for it. unfortunately I think a lot of would-be doctors are conditioned to think otherwise .. engrossed in their own world where they're indoctrinated to think that that amount of work and pressure is acceptable. do you not think it puts patient safety at risk?

we have MPs telling us to work ourselves to death and yet most of them seem to have enough time to have second jobs (link: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/23/twenty-mps-declare-over-100000-from-second-jobs). these are people who are running the country and they theoretically have the hardest job with the most responsibility.

what sort of society is that?

you are part of the problem but you do not realise. its upsetting. I hope newer generations of doctors will stand up for themselves.
So the Daily Mail seem to have the public believing that the new alzheimer's QoF is a 'bonus' that goes directly into the GP's back pocket.

I don't know why the public is so hateful towards a worker who is ultimately there for their benefit, and is doing a remarkably difficult job with such a tiny proportion of funding. I'm so glad that these commenters never really seem to come crawling out of the woodwork in real life.
Original post by shiggydiggy
So the Daily Mail seem to have the public believing that the new alzheimer's QoF is a 'bonus' that goes directly into the GP's back pocket.

I don't know why the public is so hateful towards a worker who is ultimately there for their benefit, and is doing a remarkably difficult job with such a tiny proportion of funding. I'm so glad that these commenters never really seem to come crawling out of the woodwork in real life.


I was watching The Wright Stuff (don't judge) and it was the same thing. Common comments were

"How about they do the job they're already paid for"

"Bet there will be an increase in diagnoses of alzeihmer's"

It is lazy reporting.

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NHS has no money hence the unreasonable contracts where we are worked off our feet, and the more the media encourages the public to hate the NHS and puts down doctors the more support the government will have for killing the NHS when it finally happens.

I think the BMA have tried pretty hard and only walked away as it wasn't getting anywhere after 18months, having become increasingly aware that political point scoring was more important to the government than patient safety or doctors' wellbeing.
Original post by frogs r everywhere
Haha, are you at newcastle medical school?


No I'm from Newcastle but I study abroad in Malta x


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Looking for some elective (well, more gap yah travel) advice. Has anybody done their elective in or travelled in Australia? My elective is 8 weeks in Sydney, but I have around 10-12 days before that and around 5 weeks after to travel. My plan is to do all the Sydney-area things during my 8 weeks in Sydney.

That leaves the 2 periods either side.. afterwards, what I thought was to fly up to Cairns and then work down the east coast back to Sydney and then fly home. Before is what I need some advice about. I thought about flying into Melbourne, spending some time exploring the city and then maybe doing the great ocean road, up to Adelaide... and then I'm not sure what to do from there. Adelaide to Sydney via Canberra I thought, but I don't want to just backtrack down the same road, so instead go more directly - but is there anything to see around that far inland? I also don't want to just be wasting my time if it could be spent better elsewhere, but I don't think I can really skip Melbourne etc. out.

I can't really do anything more north of Sydney before the elective because it would sorta be out of sync for the period afterward (I'd have to travel through it either way), which is why I thought doing the south end of Aus would be better.

Has anybody done anything like this or have any advice?
(hopefully) last mid-semester assessment on monday and i am legit drowning in neuro :emo: although i have changed over to cornell style revision notes and its been working pretty sweetly so far! :smile:

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