Will the new contract debate have an impact on medical school applications

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some of those applying to medicine do so without really understanding hat they getting into or because they have been pushed by parents. Obviously all the fuss means they now have a better idea and maybe some of the parents are being less pushy. When people go to do work experience they are told how many are looking for other work. Surprising that the drop isn't greater.

You want to have anyone left to treat you when you are sick sign the petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/121152

Hunt will probably go in the next reshuffle anyway, but it's a way to say stop treating NHS staff like dirt because they do have public support.

Reply 21

Beska

Original post by suedonim

You want to have anyone left to treat you when you are sick sign the petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/121152

Although it's probably good for the attention, it won't actually result in a debate for a vote of no confidence - for the last one the Government body that deals with petitions (unsurprisingly) said they didn't have authority to call for a debate like that, but instead just called for a lacklustre debate about something something that nobody attended and nobody really cared about. Democracy in the 21st century - they can now ignore pleas of the people via the internet too!

Reply 22

suedonim

Original post by Beska

Although it's probably good for the attention, it won't actually result in a debate for a vote of no confidence

Don't think anyone believes it will - but if it gets enough signatures and the papers report on that MPs will look at how many signed in their constituency to see how many voters are upset compared to the size of their majority. Each signature makes it a little less likely that there will be more crap in future. You need to understand that MPs are in this for the money and the perks and that anything that might threaten their seat at the next election has an impact.

No.

Original post by suedonim

Maybe in an ideal world, but the earlier petition got nearly a quarter of a million signatures and was very widely reported and precisely nothing changed.

Reply 25

somethingbeautiful

Not sure how much it will affect school leaver applicants but I'd be incredibly surprised if this coupled with funding uncertainty doesn't cut the graduate entry numbers.

Reply 26

suedonim

Original post by Beska

Maybe in an ideal world, but the earlier petition got nearly a quarter of a million signatures and was very widely reported and precisely nothing changed.

Do you really think there would have been any negotiation without it, if so you don't understand politicians. Anyone it's been closed - shows how seriously the government took it that they didn't want it attracting more signatures . So here's a couple still open https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/121152

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/120753

Reply 27

Beska

Original post by suedonim

Do you really think there would have been any negotiation without it

Original post by suedonim

if so you don't understand politicians.

Thanks for that commentary and I'll just ignore the glaring fallacy there.

Original post by suedonim

Anyone it's been closed - shows how seriously the government took it that they didn't want it attracting more signatures .

No, they close automatically after 6 months. This isn't a conspiracy.

Reply 28

suedonim

Original post by Beska

Yes it would have gone ahead - the reason there was negotiation was that the BMA balloted for industrial action and this was given a huge mandate, and planned IA days and gave notice. The NHSE did not come back to the table because there was some online petition that was discussed by absolute career backbenchers in some tiny boardroom.

Thanks for that commentary and I'll just ignore the glaring fallacy there.
No, they close automatically after 6 months. This isn't a conspiracy.

Actually it wasn't due to close until August this year - and does now seem to have been reopened. You dont understand politics. Strikes in publicly funded roles only succeed if they have public support. The government have people monitoring newspapers, Facebook, twitter to see if that public support exists, They also have 650 MPs telling them when they feel their jobs are threatened. But way to go to lose a supporter.

Reply 29

Beska

Original post by suedonim

I fully support the petitions (I signed the original and I signed this one) but I think it's important to go up and beyond just the petition - the petition itself isn't going to change anything, like I say. It helps if it's reported in the media to show the strength of feeling, but it's important to do additional things - write to MPs, attend protests/marches (these definitely put pressure on, more so than petitions imo), etc. - without all these additional things I really don't think that the petition will make a difference. At the end of the day, like you say, all that will happen is that Hunt will be reshuffled and somebody else will be bought in to do the same job.

Reply 30

Jckc123

Original post by Beska

https://www.ucas.com/sites/default/files/mr_october_151015_medicine.pdf

Nope - they're not increasing, they're decreasing substantially. Interestingly, those reapplying to medicine dropped substantially this year (from around 3,300 average between 2012 - 2015, shot down to 2600 for 2016).

Thanks for the info!

Reply 31

seaholme

I feel for anybody making any decisions this year. Whether medicine remains the same kind of career hinges a lot on what happens politically with the actions of the government over the next 6-12 months. It's always going to be an ethically worthwhile thing to do from a purely vocational standpoint, and the same goes for any caring role be it nursing, paramedic or doctor. However unless you're a robot with no other normal human needs, you need to have quality of life and an acceptable working environment with acceptable working conditions.

Reply 32

endzone123

i'll be going ahead with my plan to apply for grad entry medicine if it still exists for 2017 entry. the financial rewards of a medical career are still decent by any reasonable standard, and i think i will enjoy the job.

Reply 33

Etomidate

Personally, I would strongly discourage anyone from entering the profession, especially given how the current government has treated junior doctors with nothing but contempt. Life as a doctor has become progressively worse since the 50s and the job will take your life from you and give very little in return.

Just sayin.

Reply 34

suedonim

Original post by Beska

Agree with doing more. Rather surprised this isn't over more of Facebook, twitter, other sites though. I'd like to see it passing the half million mark.