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What should we do about Britain's underclass?

You know the type I am referring to (easy to spot in any "rough" town): don't work, get up at 2pm everyday, low IQ, anti-social, often mixed up in the criminal justice system, take drugs, have at least three kids without the money to sustain them, etc.

What should we do about them? Should the state come down hard on them or should we just let them get on with it and pay the benefits, tolerate the anti-social behaviour, etc?
(edited 8 years ago)

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Find a way to integrate them into society and get them working.

Not sure what you mean by making the state 'come down hard on them'.
Why do you think that having a higher IQ than someone makes you superior to them? Because then aren't you just accepting that you are inferior to a hell of a lot of people?
Reply 4
Avatar for Ribenas
Ribenas
11
Original post by Grand High Witch
You know the type I am referring to (easy to spot in any "rough" town): don't work, get up at 2pm everyday, low IQ, anti-social, often mixed up in the criminal justice system, take drugs, have at least three kids without the money to sustain them, etc.

What should we do about them? Should the state come down hard on them or should we just let them get on with it and pay the benefits, tolerate the anti-social behaviour, etc?


First we have to stop giving them money. The only reason they don't work is because they don't have to. They have children and their children watch their parents and think that how you can live but if they saw their parents struggle they would work, get up early and work hard in their education so they could have a better life.
Original post by Twinpeaks
Why do you think that having a higher IQ than someone makes you superior to them? Because then aren't you just accepting that you are inferior to a hell of a lot of people?


It's one factor which defines what I am referring to as the "underclass". You didn't pick up on me referring to people who don't work and asking why someone who works is superior to someone who doesn't.
Original post by Ribenas
First we have to stop giving them money. The only reason they don't work is because they don't have to. They have children and their children watch their parents and think that how you can live but if they saw their parents struggle they would work, get up early and work hard in their education so they could have a better life.


I would argue that the benefits we pay to certain underclasses is a form of extortion paid to diminish the probability of them turning to criminal alternatives. Just consider the types of populations that willingly choose not to work. I don't believe many of them would turn to honest labor if benefits disappeared. I don't believe they would just starve either. The reality is that we do not live in a society with the will to employ the types of harsh measures necessary to either motivate or eliminate a willful underclass.
Reply 7
Avatar for Ribenas
Ribenas
11
Original post by ckingalt
I would argue that the benefits we pay to certain underclasses is a form of extortion paid to diminish the probability of them turning to criminal alternatives. Just consider the types of populations that willingly choose not to work. I don't believe many of them would turn to honest labor if benefits disappeared. I don't believe they would just starve either. The reality is that we do not live in a society with the will to employ the types of harsh measures necessary to either motivate or eliminate a willful underclass.


Very true, I definitely agree with you :smile:
Original post by Grand High Witch
You know the type I am referring to (easy to spot in any "rough" town): don't work, get up at 2pm everyday, low IQ, anti-social, often mixed up in the criminal justice system, take drugs, have at least three kids without the money to sustain them, etc.

What should we do about them? Should the state come down hard on them or should we just let them get on with it and pay the benefits, tolerate the anti-social behaviour, etc?


You mean chavs, right?
There are too many of them and not enough good working class people anymore.
I don't know why they're like that but locking them up en masse isn't the solution although they are total wastes of space as they are at the minute. They need to be disciplined and good values instilled in them because at this rate they are a burden on society
Reply 9
Avatar for Ribenas
Ribenas
11
Original post by Twinpeaks
Why do you think that having a higher IQ than someone makes you superior to them? Because then aren't you just accepting that you are inferior to a hell of a lot of people?


Superiority and inferiority should not matter, but rather how rounded are society is.
Original post by Grand High Witch
It's one factor which defines what I am referring to as the "underclass". You didn't pick up on me referring to people who don't work and asking why someone who works is superior to someone who doesn't.


Having a low IQ should not be a determining factor. Maybe lack of secondary school education.

Why do you think that is? Maybe because not working is a choice, a behaviour that we have volition over. Whereas we have absolutely no control over IQ. Showing a lack of respect for an individual due to something they have absolutely no control over is contemptuous and wrong on so many levels.
Original post by Ribenas
Superiority and inferiority should not matter, but rather how rounded are society is.


What point are you making?
Ze final solution.

Spoiler

Original post by Ribenas
First we have to stop giving them money. The only reason they don't work is because they don't have to. They have children and their children watch their parents and think that how you can live but if they saw their parents struggle they would work, get up early and work hard in their education so they could have a better life.


The last bit is hilarious and just shows how ignorant you are on the topic.

Whilst having parents on benefits is most certainly not related with good educational and interpersonal outcomes in later life, having parents "struggle" due to having no money is associated with so many poor outcomes. In terms of education, social development and even mental health. Maybe you should educate yourself before making such strong claims.
Original post by similarBlank
Ze final solution.

Spoiler



And decrease the surplus population init bruv.
Original post by dairychocolate
Find a way to integrate them into society and get them working.

Not sure what you mean by making the state 'come down hard on them'.


I agree, lets see the state provide them with jobs or atleast get them into some sort of training them we'll see if people just choose to live on benefits
Original post by Twinpeaks
What point are you making?


I am saying what we should do about the British underclass
Original post by Twinpeaks
The last bit is hilarious and just shows how ignorant you are on the topic.

Whilst having parents on benefits is most certainly not related with good educational and interpersonal outcomes in later life, having parents "struggle" due to having no money is associated with so many poor outcomes. In terms of education, social development and even mental health. Maybe you should educate yourself before making such strong claims.


I am not ignorant. You have not read what I have written. I have not said "Whilst having parents on benefits is most certainly not related with good educational and interpersonal outcomes in later life" I have said the opposite.

In addition, there are far more famous cases of individuals who have struggled and their struggles being associated with positive outcomes. For example, Jim Carrey once lived out of a VW camper van and in a tent on his sister's front lawn, Oscar winner Halle Berry once stayed in a homeless shelter in her early 20s,America’s most famous psychologist once lived in a car with his father (Dr.Phil),Daniel Craig, or "James Bond," once had to sleep on park benches in London,Singer Ella Fitzgerald was abused, had Mafia ties, and was homeless before becoming the "Queen of Jazz.",Millionaire Chris Gardner, who inspired the movie "The Pursuit of Happyness," was homeless with a young son while he was in a finance training program, before becoming the greatest magician, Harry Houdini ran away from home at the age of 12 and begged on the streets for coins. I could go on but I am far from ignorant to the fact of how pathetic your last post was and would hate to make you look an more pathetic.
Reply 18
Avatar for moggis
moggis
18
Its very unlikely that anything constructive can ever be done with them since the Tories probably wont want to be seen as punishing the poor (even if it's punishing in order to help them) and Labour may not have a large enough majority for a long long time and even if they did their solution may well not be the right one.

But it seems to me that since the underclass first came to prominence (for want of a better word) things have quitened down havnt they?

I don't think they are that big a problem as long as you don't live next door to a particularly bad family.

Is that incredibly naive ?

If I'm wrong then it's still very hard to see a solution but I can't help wondering why this country would seem to have so many when other countries also have benefits that enable people to not work for long periods without seemingly incurring as many problems.
(edited 8 years ago)
Built more estates?

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