How would a outright burqa and face veil ban go down in England?

Tell me where it says a niqab is required, go on.

We should all be striving to follow the examples they set.

Scholars differ in their opinions. There are others who aren't so 'strict' in their views that would actually argue the hijab isn't compulsory, which is ridiculous. Now, you tell me what's wrong with wearing the niqab. Let's say, for the sake of this argument, that it's not required - why can't a Muslim woman wear it without being judged? She is doing it for Allah, and isn't hurting anyone in the process. Also keep in mind that the Prophet's wives and the believing women at the time used to cover themselves completely, showing only their eyes. There is also a Hadith in which Aisha (RA) explains that when the verse concerning the veil was revealed, the women cut parts of their clothing to cover their faces with instantly. And you're telling me the niqab should be banned? SubhanAllah. We should all be striving to follow the examples they set. There is a serious problem if actual Muslims express this sort of dislike against the niqab.

Now that it's no longer religious, you tell me why someone shouldn't wear a mask in public. Do you have any idea on how intimidating it looks to the general public to see groups of women dressed all in black covering their face? They might as well just wear a Halloween mask. Do you think that these women actually want to wear it? Let me tell you, the women I personally know who wear it have accepted it because their husbands have forced them to. It's sickening. Say it's a woman's choice however much you like, I, and many other people will associate it with oppression, and to be true with you, the root of the niqab is oppression.

Okay, the Prophet's wives did that. Cool. Does that I should also agree to my husband marrying multiple other women because 'the Prophet's wives did that?'? Genuine question.

And how long ago was that? 600 years ago? Am I obliged to follow a 600 year old lifestyle now?

Hadiths can be interpreted in different ways, and even be false. Unreliable sources imo

Yes, I'm telling you again. It should be banned. If it's not, on the grounds of freedom of wearing whatever you want, I'd quite like my freedom of wearing nothing in public then thank you.

I applaud Muslims who are becoming increasingly liberal. I think they are the only hope of the religion. The real problem are those Muslims who are so stuck with centuries-old beliefs (beliefs that are often illogical and have no foundation) and are completely refusing to embrace the liberties and freedoms that the western world has to offer.

Do you strive to do as the mediaeval desert-dwellers did in all aspects of your life? Are you happy to be one of several wives? Do you not see merit in development? Do you think humans should become stuck in seventh century Arabia forever?

You must have tremendous difficulty finding somewhere to keep your camel in modern Europe.

I feel I have a lot more liberty, as you say, as a "non-liberal" (lol) Muslim woman. What's so liberating about showing your breasts on the cover of magazines? Pretty much everything Western women dedicate their lives to nowadays is done for the attention of men, whether they realise it or not, and that to me is the most oppressive culture.

Of course, what with being a desert-dweller myself. I guess I'll just have to move back to the desert in order to fulfil my religious duty of owning a camel.

Considering that every government in history has passed legislation directly or indirectly telling people what they can and cannot wear, I would say that the current government is competent on this matter.

The freedom to wear what people want has never been fundamental; decency, security, public order, social harmony, or preventing hate propaganda, have always been more important than an absolute liberty in that field.

As it's forbidden to walk around naked, except under some special circumstances, it should be forbidden to walk around fully concealed, except under some special circumstances.

Could you give some examples? I can't think of any legitimate case for a state to impose a global ban on any kind of clothing (or lack thereof). Certainly there are safety issues in many cases e.g. building sites, sports etc., but apart from nudity I can't think of anything that applies across the board? And I certainly don't think nudity should actually be illegal in the first place!

Sorry, how does this follow? Nudity is forbidden because our culture has decided for some reason that it's 'indecent' (which of course is a bad argument anyway). The same can't be said for being fully concealed, so I don't see how you can infer one from the other.

Besides, what are we proposing here? That a ban is made specifically targetting Islamic concealment? What about hoodies and balaclavas and veils and other items of clothing used to cover the face or parts of skin that are 'normally' uncovered? When worn with long trousers, shoes and jumpers, these can often conceal almost as much as the most concealing of Islamic veils e.g. the burka, or at least the niqab.

Now that it's no longer religious, you tell me why someone shouldn't wear a mask in public. Do you have any idea on how intimidating it looks to the general public to see groups of women dressed all in black covering their face? They might as well just wear a Halloween mask. Do you think that these women actually want to wear it? Let me tell you, the women I personally know who wear it have accepted it because their husbands have forced them to. It's sickening. Say it's a woman's choice however much you like, I, and many other people will associate it with oppression, and to be true with you, the root of the niqab is oppression.

Okay, the Prophet's wives did that. Cool. Does that I should also agree to my husband marrying multiple other women because 'the Prophet's wives did that?'? Genuine question.

And how long ago was that? 600 years ago? Am I obliged to follow a 600 year old lifestyle now?

Hadiths can be interpreted in different ways, and even be false. Unreliable sources imo

Yes, I'm telling you again. It should be banned. If it's not, on the grounds of freedom of wearing whatever you want, I'd quite like my freedom of wearing nothing in public then thank you.

I applaud Muslims who are becoming increasingly liberal. I think they are the only hope of the religion. The real problem are those Muslims who are so stuck with centuries-old beliefs (beliefs that are often illogical and have no foundation) and are completely refusing to embrace the liberties and freedoms that the western world has to offer.

Please explain to me how the root of the niqab is oppression. Any historical evidence? This is merely an opinion.

Honestly I don't care who it intimidates. Another person's irrational fear of the niqab isn't a reason to not wear it, or to ban women completely from wearing it. I know at least 9 women who wear the niqab - 5 started wearing it long before getting married, at a very young age, and 4 of them started wearing it as a result of becoming more religious, eventually convincing their "oppressive" husbands that it's the way forward. Some of their friends actually started avoiding them for this reason, because apparently most people associate it with extremism nowadays. Just because a few women you've met have apparently been forced into it means nothing. It is their own individual situation, it doesn't apply to the entire Muslim population.

Well, actually, the reason wouldn't be that "the Prophet's wives did that", the reason would be the fact that it's allowed in Islam and you or other Muslims being against it doesn't change that. I find it so hypocritical how people claim to follow a religion yet completely reject or choose to ignore parts of it. You don't shape Islam to suit your desires or "Western" outlook on life. Yes you are obliged to follow this "600 year-old lifestyle" (try 1400) if it is your religion.

The Hadith I'm talking about isn't false and is graded as Sahih, therefore it is reliable. If as a Muslim you consider Hadith to be unreliable then, well, I don't know what to say to that.

I feel I have a lot more liberty, as you say, as a "non-liberal" (lol) Muslim woman. What's so liberating about showing your breasts on the cover of magazines? Pretty much everything Western women dedicate their lives to nowadays is done for the attention of men, whether they realise it or not, and that to me is the most oppressive culture.

Perhaps if westerners weren't so fond of judging peoples appearance maybe the veil/burqa wouldn't be needed. We want freedom from the uglyness of the kuffar way of life.

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Sometimes this is not a troll.

This one is and the above post confirms it.

You're encouraging forced humiliation then? Cos some women might not actually want to show their body outline or face when then want just pop out for a pint of milk.