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Do you think extra time in exams is fair?
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If it's for a legitimate reason, I know some people who milk their 'condition' far too much and just cheat the system.
Original post by Mihael_Keehl
I am not sure how people could cheat in the actual diagnosis stuff not for bad handwriting etc.
It's the handwriting speed one that is really open to abuse. I don't know enough about the others to know.
Original post by Mihael_Keehl
Do you think 25% is too much/little?.
It's the cliff edge nature of the nothing/25% that seems odd. (There are also arrangements that allow 50% extra time and more, but the vast majority are on 25%). I appreciate it's probably there to make it easy to administer but it's not very logical.
Assessments for access arrangements test a range of stuff, all of which are taken to be equally important. The results are standardised at 100 and if you score less than 85 on a test that is the trigger for getting extra time. I have seen some assessments that tested so many things I suspect anyone taking them all would land up scoring under 85 in something. At the moment you score 84 in one thing and everything else is well over 100 and you get 25% extra time. Score everything under 100 but nothing below 85 and you probably get nothing. I'm not saying a fairer system would be easy to devise, just that the current one isn't very logical or fair.
(edited 8 years ago)
I understand that some people really need it, but isn't the point of exam conditions that we are tested on our ability to work under the pressure of time? If someone can't work under timed conditions then they shouldn't get extra time because surely that defeats the point of having exams! It's like giving people with lower IQs higher marks to compensate for their low IQ, when really their exam results should reflect that low IQ (I am in no way saying that people who get extra time have low IQs as I know that is not true - I am just making an analogy).
Someone I know is autistic so he gets extra time. He is in a few of my classes and he works a lot quicker than me and he reads a lot quicker than me too. I often have to read things several times to even begin to understand them, especially in an exam when stress means that concentration is difficult. I don't get extra time or anything and personally I don't think I should because it is something that I am less good at than others and that should be reflected in my exam results as that is what exams are for.
Someone I know is autistic so he gets extra time. He is in a few of my classes and he works a lot quicker than me and he reads a lot quicker than me too. I often have to read things several times to even begin to understand them, especially in an exam when stress means that concentration is difficult. I don't get extra time or anything and personally I don't think I should because it is something that I am less good at than others and that should be reflected in my exam results as that is what exams are for.
Firstly, I gave 4 reasons (post 112) and you've only addressed one of them.
You are incorrect that ALL autistic people have a learning disability. I have already evidenced NHS choices which states verbatim "some people with autism have an accompanying learning disability, learning difficulty or mental health problem."
If you expect anyone to believe your word over the official NHS-audited website then you will be disappointed.
Secondly, dyslexia is not an ASD. It is a related condition to autism (https://www.autismspectrum.org.au/content/related-conditions).
If you have autism and dyslexia then this is different to just having autism. I agree that if you have dyslexia, special arrangements should be made for exams.
If you have any sources to back up your position I would be interested to see them. As it stands I have given 4 reasons and provided 3 sources on this thread.
You are incorrect that ALL autistic people have a learning disability. I have already evidenced NHS choices which states verbatim "some people with autism have an accompanying learning disability, learning difficulty or mental health problem."
If you expect anyone to believe your word over the official NHS-audited website then you will be disappointed.
Secondly, dyslexia is not an ASD. It is a related condition to autism (https://www.autismspectrum.org.au/content/related-conditions).
If you have autism and dyslexia then this is different to just having autism. I agree that if you have dyslexia, special arrangements should be made for exams.
If you have any sources to back up your position I would be interested to see them. As it stands I have given 4 reasons and provided 3 sources on this thread.
Original post by CathyHeathcliff
Someone I know is autistic so he gets extra time. He is in a few of my classes and he works a lot quicker than me and he reads a lot quicker than me too. I often have to read things several times to even begin to understand them, especially in an exam when stress means that concentration is difficult. I don't get extra time or anything and personally I don't think I should because it is something that I am less good at than others and that should be reflected in my exam results as that is what exams are for.
If that is the case, it's a joke that he gets extra time just because of autism and no other intellectual disability.
Original post by Tinka99
Curious about your thoughts.
Depends, people that really have a problem then yes, but I have friends who blatantly laugh about the fact that they cheat on the tests to determine if they get extra time for such things as dyslexia, which really annoys me.
I know someone that got all A* in their GCSEs. Moved up to A level, found them harder so applied for extra time...
Original post by CathyHeathcliff
I understand that some people really need it, but isn't the point of exam conditions that we are tested on our ability to work under the pressure of time? If someone can't work under timed conditions then they shouldn't get extra time because surely that defeats the point of having exams! It's like giving people with lower IQs higher marks to compensate for their low IQ, when really their exam results should reflect that low IQ (I am in no way saying that people who get extra time have low IQs as I know that is not true - I am just making an analogy).
Someone I know is autistic so he gets extra time. He is in a few of my classes and he works a lot quicker than me and he reads a lot quicker than me too. I often have to read things several times to even begin to understand them, especially in an exam when stress means that concentration is difficult. I don't get extra time or anything and personally I don't think I should because it is something that I am less good at than others and that should be reflected in my exam results as that is what exams are for.
Someone I know is autistic so he gets extra time. He is in a few of my classes and he works a lot quicker than me and he reads a lot quicker than me too. I often have to read things several times to even begin to understand them, especially in an exam when stress means that concentration is difficult. I don't get extra time or anything and personally I don't think I should because it is something that I am less good at than others and that should be reflected in my exam results as that is what exams are for.
Exams don't really reflect intelligence. They reflect how well you remember the information and how well you can answer the questions, write an essay etc. within that time span. Also how well you can manipulate the answer to be what the exam moderators want you to write (various others depending on the type of exam) and how well you can do this under time restrictions and pressure. Some people thrive off pressure and do fantastically. Most people get anxious before, after and during exams and struggle moderately, However some people despite perhaps being just as intelligent, or maybe more than these people, utterly do dreadfully in exams. Whether this is due to dyslexia (so the main problem there would be reading and writing as quick as an average person), a learning difficulty, an anxiety disorder, a physical problem ... the list goes on for the reasons why someone may need extra time. Extra time and other exam assistance is given because written exams are only one way of testing someone's intelligence. Some people have a significant disadvantage and it is not a fair way of testing their intelligence, hence the exam board gives them a little help. I believe intelligence in order to pass qualifications should be tested and moderated in a variety of ways. (For example my English Literature A Level was 40% coursework and 60% exam which took some of the pressure off.) However most ways of achieving grades are through exams. This is just how it is. It's old fashioned. One of the reasons they bought in BTEC's and other equivalents - they are generally easier to pass in regards to how the grades are awarded. (Usually mostly coursework over a long period of time rather than the entire year's work being judged over the course of a couple of hours like in an exam.)
The point is exams just are more difficult for people with various conditions. And it really isn't fair on them. So they are given help in order for their grade to become a more realistic demonstration of their full potential.
Original post by Mazzy95
True, education can't really judge those who get extra time but 'seem like they don't need it' as they can't really know for sure. It can be difficult to pinpoint people that don't have physically obvious needs which I think is the reason why people are saying that 'lots' of people exploit the system. I think it's just that their reason for extra time isn't physically obvious so people make informed judgments. (Like the majority of people within society enjoy making towards each other.)
Yeah, it's hard to judge how an individual would of performed without said disability so we really can't say for sure it's crippling them. I mean people in the middle, of course going towards the more severe end of the spectrum it's easy to point out.
Original post by xylas
I agree with extra time for disabilities, but not for this reason. If your brain is slow, then you do a different paper that is tailored for you i.e. a foundation paper. The questions tend to be shorter and more direct so thought processing is easier.
If you have sight problems, coordination problems, bowel and bladder problems, ADHD etc. then you should be allowed extra time since these are problems with writing answers and not processing the question.
However if your brain is slow to process, then obviously you are less able to understand the question than someone else (i.e. someone has to repeat the same thing to you many times for you to process it) so you should only do exam papers which you can understand/ do well in.
For example, if someone is very slow to process what a maths question is asking this is the same as being 'less able' at maths and should be reflected in the grade.
If you have sight problems, coordination problems, bowel and bladder problems, ADHD etc. then you should be allowed extra time since these are problems with writing answers and not processing the question.
However if your brain is slow to process, then obviously you are less able to understand the question than someone else (i.e. someone has to repeat the same thing to you many times for you to process it) so you should only do exam papers which you can understand/ do well in.
For example, if someone is very slow to process what a maths question is asking this is the same as being 'less able' at maths and should be reflected in the grade.
I disagree, by 'slow functioning' I don't mean a lack of knowledge or understanding - a boy in my class gets extra time yet he is incredibly clever (in my triple science class) and gets A*'s etc but he doesn't have ADHD or any of them issues, he has some coordination issue which means it takes him longer to process information. I don't know if I communicated this wrong, but I wasn't relating it to a lack of knowledge/understanding/intelligence, I was just meaning it takes longer to read it/process the question itself
Original post by caitlinford3
I disagree, by 'slow functioning' I don't mean a lack of knowledge or understanding - a boy in my class gets extra time yet he is incredibly clever (in my triple science class) and gets A*'s etc but he doesn't have ADHD or any of them issues, he has some coordination issue which means it takes him longer to process information. I don't know if I communicated this wrong, but I wasn't relating it to a lack of knowledge/understanding/intelligence, I was just meaning it takes longer to read it/process the question itself
I'm pretty sure coordination disorder is the inability to perform certain motor tasks quickly not processing information.
If you can read the question fine but can't process what you have to do to answer it, this is not a disability and you shouldn't be given extra time. This is normal and just means you aren't as capable at the exam as someone else hence in a lower grade.
Original post by xylas
I agree with extra time for disabilities, but not for this reason. If your brain is slow, then you do a different paper that is tailored for you i.e. a foundation paper. The questions tend to be shorter and more direct so thought processing is easier.
If you have sight problems, coordination problems, bowel and bladder problems, ADHD etc. then you should be allowed extra time since these are problems with writing answers and not processing the question.
However if your brain is slow to process, then obviously you are less able to understand the question than someone else (i.e. someone has to repeat the same thing to you many times for you to process it) so you should only do exam papers which you can understand/ do well in.
For example, if someone is very slow to process what a maths question is asking this is the same as being 'less able' at maths and should be reflected in the grade.
If you have sight problems, coordination problems, bowel and bladder problems, ADHD etc. then you should be allowed extra time since these are problems with writing answers and not processing the question.
However if your brain is slow to process, then obviously you are less able to understand the question than someone else (i.e. someone has to repeat the same thing to you many times for you to process it) so you should only do exam papers which you can understand/ do well in.
For example, if someone is very slow to process what a maths question is asking this is the same as being 'less able' at maths and should be reflected in the grade.
This is ridiculous and incredibly insulting to people who sit or have sat foundation exams. Sitting a foundation exam doesn't mean your brain is slower.
Original post by xylas
I know this but it also says autism on its own is not a learning disability.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pervasive_developmental_disorder
The diagnostic category pervasive developmental disorders (PDD), as opposed to specific developmental disorders (SDD), refers to a group of five disorders characterized by delays in the development of multiple basic functions including socialization and communication. The pervasive developmental disorders are pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS), which includes atypical autism and is the most common; autism, the best-known, now understood to be part of a spectrum; Asperger syndrome; Rett syndrome; and childhood disintegrative disorder (CDD).
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pervasive_developmental_disorder
The diagnostic category pervasive developmental disorders (PDD), as opposed to specific developmental disorders (SDD), refers to a group of five disorders characterized by delays in the development of multiple basic functions including socialization and communication. The pervasive developmental disorders are pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS), which includes atypical autism and is the most common; autism, the best-known, now understood to be part of a spectrum; Asperger syndrome; Rett syndrome; and childhood disintegrative disorder (CDD).
It is a disability nonetheless. You said it wasn't a disability at all.
Original post by xylas
I'm pretty sure coordination disorder is the inability to perform certain motor tasks quickly not processing information.
If you can read the question fine but can't process what you have to do to answer it, this is not a disability and you shouldn't be given extra time. This is normal and just means you aren't as capable at the exam as someone else hence in a lower grade.
If you can read the question fine but can't process what you have to do to answer it, this is not a disability and you shouldn't be given extra time. This is normal and just means you aren't as capable at the exam as someone else hence in a lower grade.
Your comments are starting to irritate me. Do you have all these disabilities that other posters have mentioned in your conversations with them? Because you can't actually truly understand until you have them. People that read information off the internet and act like they know exactly what it is and make 'informed and judgmental opinions' on other people that do have these conditions, as though you have the right to do, so irritate me. The commenter who has autism is going to know more about autism than you. (If you actually have autism then fair play that is fine to make general comments about autism as a condition however you still shouldn't be having an opinion on this specific poster as you know nothing about them and their individual condition.) You don't have the right to say that they shouldn't be getting extra time because it doesn't count as a specific type of disability (a specific type that you think has the right to extra time over other types of disability. Bizarre logic and very discriminatory.)
TSR is full of people that like to make judgmental opinions on others when they actually know nothing about those people and they pull off definitions from the internet in order to actually know what they are even talking about! Stop being so ignorant and have some compassion. Some people deserve extra help with their exams. Just like some people deserve extra help with life in general.
If you can read the question fine but can't process what you have to do to answer it, this is not a disability and you shouldn't be given extra time. This is normal and just means you aren't as capable at the exam as someone else hence in a lower grade.
Not necessarily. Disabilities affect people differently. Some may have no trouble reading the question but then struggle with interpreting and vice versa. Its not as black and white as you make it out to be.
How does anyone ever really know that 'taking longer to process questions' just means you're a bit thick? I'm very sceptical of stuff like this. Writing slowly is another one I don't agree with unless you've had some kind of injury to your arm/wrist/hand.
Original post by Mazzy95
Your comments are starting to irritate me. Do you have all these disabilities that other posters have mentioned in your conversations with them? Because you can't actually truly understand until you have them. People that read information off the internet and act like they know exactly what it is and make 'informed and judgmental opinions' on other people that do have these conditions, as though you have the right to do, so irritate me. The commenter who has autism is going to know more about autism than you. (If you actually have autism then fair play that is fine to make general comments about autism as a condition however you still shouldn't be having an opinion on this specific poster as you know nothing about them and their individual condition.) You don't have the right to say that they shouldn't be getting extra time because it doesn't count as a specific type of disability (a specific type that you think has the right to extra time over other types of disability. Bizarre logic and very discriminatory.)
TSR is full of people that like to make judgmental opinions on others when they actually know nothing about those people and they pull off definitions from the internet in order to actually know what they are even talking about! Stop being so ignorant and have some compassion. Some people deserve extra help with their exams. Just like some people deserve extra help with life in general.
TSR is full of people that like to make judgmental opinions on others when they actually know nothing about those people and they pull off definitions from the internet in order to actually know what they are even talking about! Stop being so ignorant and have some compassion. Some people deserve extra help with their exams. Just like some people deserve extra help with life in general.
Some people do deserve extra help but just having an autism diagnosis is no reason the person must have issues related to the autism which prevents them from completing the exams in normal timing. I am sick of people using autism as an excuse for extra time.
Original post by Tinka99
I have ADHD and Autism also have a slow writing speed.
I have a less than functioning right arm/hand, aspergers and dyslexia. I do not get extra time.
Original post by EdwardBarfield9
I have a less than functioning right arm/hand, aspergers and dyslexia. I do not get extra time.
Why don't you get extra time?
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