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More than half of British Muslims say homosexuality should be outlawed

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Original post by The_Opinion
Because he either doesn't believe or does not want to believe the results


I don't think many people really want to believe these results.
Original post by The_Opinion
Because he either doesn't believe or does not want to believe the results, and what do people do when evidence is against them? - The attack the methodology of obtaining such evidence. The next stage will be creating a false comparison of another unrelated demographic in an attempt to lessen the impact of the results, e.g. "look, group X have 35% supporting making it illegal, only a few less than in the survey".


I think he genuinely doesn't understand how statistics works. He is unaware of the concepts of sample sizes, confidence intervals, margins of error, etc. He doesn't know that the methodology of statistical analysis is scientifically proven, that you can deduce the views of millions of people through a mathematically-calculated sample size to within mathematically defined margins of error.

Even so, as you say, I don't think he'd want to believe it even if he did understand it. Which is part of the problem with that community; head in the sand so nothing ever changes.
Original post by Mactotaur
I don't think many people really want to believe these results.


That is precisely why, or at least largely assists in these views occurring, as people prefer to look the other way and pretend that all is well, despite evidence being presented to them.
Original post by AdilAD
I'm a British muslim and no one's asked me what I think so no one can say "half of the British muslims"


Do you not understand how statistics work? How is it that so many of the Muslims who come on this thread to say "I wasn't asked" etc can progress through our educational system while being ignorant of these basic principles of mathematics and science?
Reply 124
Original post by Zain-A
Listen, I'm not here to make another person feel daft so I won't talk down to you like you have to me. What I am trying to say is that I can guarantee you these views do not arise simply because of Islam, because I have grown up in these sort of communities. Its when Islam is combined with a backwards cultural view of thinking that many Muslims down south have is when you get these view point.

Many young Muslims who have grown up away from the influences of these cultural pressures don't have these views. If you want to make a statement such as the one the article is making there needs to be a holistic investigation of why these issues are occurring.


Islam IS a backwards cultural view of thinking.
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
The science of statistics is extremely well proven and has been for a long time.7

You can be mathematically almost certain that for a population of, say, 5 million that you can deduce their views through polling with a confidence level of about 95% and a margin of error of about 3% by polling around 2,000 people from within the group.

That's simply a scientific fact, proven over decades. You clearly don't understand the science of statistics and polling, hence you start asking stupid questions about how polling about 2000 people could show the views of millions with accuracy


I just don't understand why everyone's attitude, and the attitude of the article is kinda like "oh well, they have these views, we can't ever get on with them now" instead of trying to find ways to stop further generations sharing the same views.
Reply 126
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
Do you not understand how statistics work? How is it that so many of the Muslims who come on this thread to say "I wasn't asked" etc can progress through our educational system while being ignorant of these basic principles of mathematics and science?


I don't know. Maybe they're just thick?
Original post by Zain-A
Listen, I'm not here to make another person feel daft so I won't talk down to you like you have to me. What I am trying to say is that I can guarantee you these views do not arise simply because of Islam, because I have grown up in these sort of communities. Its when Islam is combined with a backwards cultural view of thinking that many Muslims down south have is when you get these view point.

Many young Muslims who have grown up away from the influences of these cultural pressures don't have these views. If you want to make a statement such as the one the article is making there needs to be a holistic investigation of why these issues are occurring.


Interviewing thousands of people is a pretty holistic investigation. In fact, for the population size interviewing 1800 people is probably a slight over-sample.

But even leaving aside the statistics, your attempt to deny the very well known views of Muslims on this is astonishing. It's not a matter of serious debate that Islam is the most homophobic religion. It's not a coincidence that the only countries that prescribe the death penalty for gay people are Muslim countries
Reply 128
Original post by Howard
Islam IS a backwards cultural view of thinking.


I completely agree

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Original post by Zain-A
I just don't understand why everyone's attitude, and the attitude of the article is kinda like "oh well, they have these views, we can't ever get on with them now" instead of trying to find ways to stop further generations sharing the same views.


We have tried to help them. We invited them into advanced areas of the planet, to share the prosperity of the West and be a part of our society.

They kicked sand in our face, refusing to integrate and looking down on the kufr. How is it our responsibility to do even more than we already do?

Whenever we do try to deal with extremism in the Muslim community and ask them to help us, they start shrieking about how we're trying to turn them into spies on their own families. It's always no win

How 'bout they take responsibility for themselves, for once?
Original post by The_Opinion
Because he either doesn't believe or does not want to believe the results, and what do people do when evidence is against them? - The attack the methodology of obtaining such evidence. The next stage will be creating a false comparison of another unrelated demographic in an attempt to lessen the impact of the results, e.g. "look, group X have 35% supporting making it illegal, only a few less than in the survey".


Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
I think he genuinely doesn't understand how statistics works. He is unaware of the concepts of sample sizes, confidence intervals, margins of error, etc. He doesn't know that the methodology of statistical analysis is scientifically proven, that you can deduce the views of millions of people through a mathematically-calculated sample size to within mathematically defined margins of error.

Even so, as you say, I don't think he'd want to believe it even if he did understand it. Which is part of the problem with that community; head in the sand so nothing ever changes.


I'm happy to admit I didn't think 1800 people was a large enough sample size, so lets move on now yes?

I never said I didn't believe the statistics? Has anyone read my posts? I'm just saying it isn't fir to claim its half of every sing ****ing muslim in the UK.

Original post by Howard
Islam IS a backwards cultural view of thinking.


Says the guy with a confederate flag picture...
Original post by AdilAD
That's like asking 5 white men if they like black women and when they say yeah your argument is "more than half of the white men in this world like black women" like bitch sort yourself out

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The ignorance shown in this post is too strong.
Original post by AdilAD
That's like asking 5 white men if they like black women and when they say yeah your argument is "more than half of the white men in this world like black women" like bitch sort yourself out


You seem to be shamefully confused and uneducated. Even if I explained the science of statistical methodology to you, explained how you can mathematically work out the right sample size to determine and poll the views of a particular population of a particular size, you'd find some other delusional way to avoid dealing with it so it's a waste of my time.

But seriously, how can anyone who comes through the British school system be so uneducated? I learned about statistical methodologies in grade 4
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
Interviewing thousands of people is a pretty holistic investigation. In fact, for the population size interviewing 1800 people is probably a slight over-sample.

But even leaving aside the statistics, your attempt to deny the very well known views of Muslims on this is astonishing. It's not a matter of serious debate that Islam is the most homophobic religion. It's not a coincidence that the only countries that prescribe the death penalty for gay people are Muslim countries


I didn't deny anything. What i've been saying is its not just down to Islam.
Reply 134
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
We have tried to help them. We invited them into advanced areas of the planet, to share the prosperity of the West and be a part of our society.

They kicked sand in our face, refusing to integrate and looking down on the kufr. How is it our responsibility to do even more than we already do?

Whenever we do try to deal with extremism in the Muslim community and ask them to help us, they start shrieking about how we're trying to turn them into spies on their own families. It's always no win

How 'bout they take responsibility for themselves, for once?


Just saying you can't always say "them" to accuse all muslims. I don't practice the religion because I disagree with some of the beliefs so I aint one of those extemists. There are still some peaceful ones out there:top:

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Original post by Zain-A
I'm happy to admit I didn't think 1800 people was a large enough sample size, so lets move on now yes?

I never said I didn't believe the statistics? Has anyone read my posts? I'm just saying it isn't fir to claim its half of every sing ****ing muslim in the UK.



Says the guy with a confederate flag picture...



So what sample size will you accept? 2000? 20,000? 1 billion? - You have to be realistic and you seem to miss the point regarding margins of error.
Original post by Zain-A
This simply isn't true, how was every single British Muslim polled huh? I wasn't polled. Stop exaggerating every single thing, it polled 1801 people in 1 city where there is many other factors involved rather than just being Muslim...


No. The sample was from all over the UK, and the total sample size (face-to-face + telephone) was 2089.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/Magazine/Features/article1685107.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2016_04_09
Original post by Zain-A
I'm happy to admit I didn't think 1800 people was a large enough sample size, so lets move on now yes?

I never said I didn't believe the statistics? Has anyone read my posts? I'm just saying it isn't fir to claim its half of every sing ****ing muslim in the UK.

Let's not move on. Your "opinion" about the sample size is irrelevant; sample sizes are based on formulas that have been around for decades. In America they regularly (and accurately) deduce the views of 150 million voters from 2500 person samples. This is statistical science, your opinion on whether the sample is large enough is irrelevant (but also wrong)
Original post by BeastOfSyracuse
Let's not move on. Your "opinion" about the sample size is irrelevant; sample sizes are based on formulas that have been around for decades. In America they regularly (and accurately) deduce the views of 150 million voters from 2500 person samples. This is statistical science, your opinion on whether the sample is large enough is irrelevant (but also wrong)


You are actually so ignorant, I've just admitted I was wrong in that post when I said "I'm happy to admit I didn't think 1800 people was a large enough sample size". That was my whole intention of that post.

So move on...
Original post by AdilAD
Just saying you can't always say "them" to accuse all muslims. I don't practice the religion because I disagree with some of the beliefs so I aint one of those extemists. There are still some peaceful ones out there:top:

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How can you be a Muslim if you don't practice Islam? Doesn't that kind of defeat the point?

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