Transgender people

OP

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I can't say I agree with what you say, giving objects genders is different, I'm talking about humans. Those objects aren't really male or female and can't Identify, obviously. A male human is a man, a female human is a woman. If I think I'm a cat,modes it make me a cat? No...I'm a male human.

Reply 4

OP

Original post by thefatone

people who think they are plants aren't humans...

Hahah

Reply 5

minimarshmallow

18

You call them what they want to be called. Same way we call Nicole Polizzi by the name Snooki, or I have three friends that go by their middle names, listen to the person and go with what they say.

Reply 6

Original post by FNPC

Ok, I have nothing wrong with trains people just there is something that confuses me.

Say for example say there is someone that is a boy by birth feels they are a girl, why am I supposed to call them she before they have had surgery? Don't we call someone he/she because of their biological sex not their gender. If we don't then I'll start calling them by what they want, but for now it kinda confuses me.

Oh also I forgot the name but there are people that want to be called "they". Even if they don't think they are a gender, they still have a biological sex so why shouldn't we call them by that?

I don't want to hear about respect for what they want, I am just looking at this from the point of view of the English language.

Of course I WILL respect what they want I just want to know.

You use the pronouns that they want you to use. Usually trans women want you to use she/her pronouns and trans men want you to use he/him pronouns. Non-binary people use a wide range of pronouns (commonly they/them but some people use she/her or he/him and others uses neopronouns like zie or hir and some people have more than one pronoun that acceptable or change their pronoun with their fluidity or how safe they feel in the situation). The easiest way to find out what pronoun some uses is to ask 'What pronoun do you use?' Since you can never know what someone's pronoun is without them telling you the best way is to ask everyone when you ask their name (and to offer your own pronouns when you introduce yourself). It's good practice to use they/them pronouns for people who's pronouns you don't know.

And remember pronouns =/= gender. But using the pronouns someone wants you to use is vital.

Reply 7

Katty3

16

Original post by FNPC

Ok, I have nothing wrong with trains people just there is something that confuses me.

Say for example say there is someone that is a boy by birth feels they are a girl, why am I supposed to call them she before they have had surgery? Don't we call someone he/she because of their biological sex not their gender. If we don't then I'll start calling them by what they want, but for now it kinda confuses me.

Oh also I forgot the name but there are people that want to be called "they". Even if they don't think they are a gender, they still have a biological sex so why shouldn't we call them by that?

I don't want to hear about respect for what they want, I am just looking at this from the point of view of the English language.

Of course I WILL respect what they want I just want to know.

Call them by what they want to be called. If I were to say "my name's Rebecca but I prefer being called Becky." you'd respect that wouldn't you? It's not exactly an inconvenience to you, is it? You're just saying a different word.

For some transgender people, a medical transition may not be possible because of illnesses or because they can't afford it. Also, often you physically can't tell a person's sex.

It makes transgender people happier if you call them by the name they've chosen and acknowledge their gender. Who are you to begrudge them that?

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Reply 8

OP

Original post by Katty3

Call them by what they want to be called. If I were to say "my name's Rebecca but I prefer being called Becky." you'd respect that wouldn't you? It's not exactly an inconvenience to you, is it? You're just saying a different word.

For some transgender people, a medical transition may not be possible because of illnesses or because they can't afford it. Also, often you physically can't tell a person's sex.

It makes transgender people happier if you call them by the name they've chosen and acknowledge their gender. Who are you to begrudge them that?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Hmm I see your point. And I will.

Two things I want to disagree with tho :biggrin:

1) becky is short for Rebecca so of course that's .

2) I'm sorry, but you CAN tell a persons sex in most cases.

Reply 9

OP

Original post by minimarshmallow

You call them what they want to be called. Same way we call Nicole Polizzi by the name Snooki, or I have three friends that go by their middle names, listen to the person and go with what they say.

I appreciate your reply.

Yes we do call people by their stage names and sometimes by middle names if they want, but ultimately those we just names and mean nothing, so can't be wrong. Calling someone a man if they are a woman just feels wrong to me

Reply 10

Original post by Katty3

Call them by what they want to be called. If I were to say "my name's Rebecca but I prefer being called Becky." you'd respect that wouldn't you? It's not exactly an inconvenience to you, is it? You're just saying a different word.

For some transgender people, a medical transition may not be possible because of illnesses or because they can't afford it. Also, often you physically can't tell a person's sex.

It makes transgender people happier if you call them by the name they've chosen and acknowledge their gender. Who are you to begrudge them that?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Some trans people don't want to 'fully' physically transition. For some hormones and/or top surgery is enough and they don't want (or need) bottom surgery. Some don't even want to physically transition at all. The legitimacy of someone's gender (or lack of gender) isn't based on how their body looks (or how they want their body to look).

Also for trans people who want a 'full' physical transition there's a lot of waiting on the NHS to see psychologists and psychiatrists and then waiting for surgeries etc. It's pretty awful to be like 'I know you want this surgery but you have to jump through hoops to get it and I could make you feel better by validating your feelings but instead I'm going to make you feel worse because you can't have it right now.'

Reply 11

minimarshmallow

18

Original post by FNPC

I appreciate your reply.

Yes we do call people by their stage names and sometimes by middle names if they want, but ultimately those we just names and mean nothing, so can't be wrong. Calling someone a man if they are a woman just feels wrong to me

All words are just things that we've made up that ultimately only mean what we decide they mean. He or she is just something that we say, a sound by which we often convey gender or sex of a person, but not always (in the contract I read in work last week it referred to he the entire way through, a contract between two companies, one of which is mostly staffed by women). A name is just a sound that identifies us, so listen to what the person wants you to identify them as.

Reply 12

Original post by FNPC

Hmm I see your point. And I will.

Two things I want to disagree with tho :biggrin:

1) becky is short for Rebecca so of course that's .

2) I'm sorry, but you CAN tell a persons sex in most cases.

I don't know what you're saying here. If Becky tells you they hate being called 'Rebecca' and that everyone calls them 'Becky' then presumably you wouldn't be like 'the name on your birth certificate/ID is Rebecca so I won't call you anything else'. Because that would be horrible. Similarly if Rebecca doesn't want anyone to shorten their name you wouldn't be like 'Rebecca's too formal and I prefer Becky so that's what I'll call you.'

Reply 13

OP

Original post by SmallTownGirl

I don't know what you're saying here. If Becky tells you they hate being called 'Rebecca' and that everyone calls them 'Becky' then presumably you wouldn't be like 'the name on your birth certificate/ID is Rebecca so I won't call you anything else'. Because that would be horrible. Similarly if Rebecca doesn't want anyone to shorten their name you wouldn't be like 'Rebecca's too formal and I prefer Becky so that's what I'll call you.'

Sorry, was meant to write "so of course that's fine"

Reply 14

OP

Original post by minimarshmallow

All words are just things that we've made up that ultimately only mean what we decide they mean. He or she is just something that we say, a sound by which we often convey gender or sex of a person, but not always (in the contract I read in work last week it referred to he the entire way through, a contract between two companies, one of which is mostly staffed by women). A name is just a sound that identifies us, so listen to what the person wants you to identify them as.

So we should totally dismiss the English language for this?

No, in the English language. A name is just a way of recognising people and shows nothing about someone except their name, obviously. If someone is a he or a she, it tells us what sex they are which is quite important for a lot of things, like certain jobs or relationships.
On a seperate note, I also feel that transgender people should put that they are trans on their dating profile, if they have one. This is so problems aren't caused. I'm a straight guy, and no matter what people say, even if I can't tell the difference I don't want to have sex with a man because I'm straight

Reply 15

Original post by FNPC

Sorry, was meant to write "so of course that's fine"

So if you could call someone who has 'Rebecca' on their ID 'Becky', why would it be harder to call them 'Dave' if they asked you to?

Reply 16

OP

Original post by SmallTownGirl

So if you could call someone who has 'Rebecca' on their ID 'Becky', why would it be harder to call them 'Dave' if they asked you to?

No, obviously it wouldn't be harder, it would just be wrong,

Reply 17

Original post by FNPC

So we should totally dismiss the English language for this?

No, in the English language. A name is just a way of recognising people and shows nothing about someone except their name, obviously. If someone is a he or a she, it tells us what sex they are which is quite important for a lot of things, like certain jobs or relationships.
On a seperate note, I also feel that transgender people should put that they are trans on their dating profile, if they have one. This is so problems aren't caused. I'm a straight guy, and no matter what people say, even if I can't tell the difference I don't want to have sex with a man because I'm straight

Pronouns don't tell you anything about sex. They don't even necessarily tell you anything about gender. But when someone asks you to use a certain pronoun set for them, you use it.

Often trans people do mention their trans when looking for dates because they don't want to waste time talking to people who will reject them based on presumptions of what their genitals look like but also for their own safety. If you don't want to date men don't date trans men or cis men. But if someone says they're a woman, they are. So if you only want to date women stick to trans women or cis women.

Reply 18

Original post by FNPC

No, obviously it wouldn't be harder, it would just be wrong,

WTF? HOW? If someone tells you their name's 'Dave' why would you think that's wrong? Do you ask to see ID with their name on it whenever you learn anyone's name?

Reply 19

OP